What is the Deal with Today's Stagedoor Culture? - Page 3

[10086Sundays]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 5:29pm

I find it pathetic how many posters here can’t see, or pretend not to see, that they are just as vile as the people you revel in passing judgment on. Particularly in this thread, so many of you are using this message board as a way to make yourselves appear superior to others in a sad attempt to give your lives meaning. 

Perhaps you should not be going after “kids on social media” when you are just as much a part of the problem and just as in need of learning manners and boundaries. Take your own "advice" and find a healthier means of validation then a message board.

I would hazard that most Broadway actors find the posters here as, if not more, loathsome than the folks who stage door.

At least the stage door folks have the guts to do it in person and don’t hide behind a computer. 

Updated On: 3/5/19 at 05:29 PM

[Bwayfan292]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 5:35pm

I think Broadway actors would much rather have folks on the message board criticize them, then being followed home, or following them to the subways...but okay.

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 5:38pm

What Bwayfan292 said. Big difference between freely expressing speech in an online discussion forum versus accosting people at their workplace.

[Sondheimite]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 5:45pm

10086Sundays said: "I find it pathetic how many posters here can’t see, or pretend not to see, that they are just as vile as the people you revel in passing judgment on. Particularly in this thread, so many of you are usingthis message board as a way to make yourselves appear superior to others in a sad attempt to give your lives meaning.

Perhaps you should not be going after “kids on social media” when you are just as much a part of the problem and just as in need of learning manners and boundaries. Take your own "advice" and find a healthier means of validationthena message board.

I would hazard that most Broadway actors find the posters here as, if not more, loathsome than the folks who stage door.

At least the stage door folks have the guts to do it in person and don’t hide behind a computer."

Schools out for labor day, y'all!!!!! 

[BroadwayRox3588]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 5:53pm

You have both taken it to the vast extreme, on the stagedooring side. I understand the point you are trying to make, but perhaps word it a little bit better. Instead of focusing on Ethan Slater's stalker, ask yourself this: Do you think Broadway actors prefer someone respectfully asking for an autograph at the stagedoor, or someone calling said polite person "loathsome and gross?" Not everyone who stage doors would also follow an actor home or to the subway. In fact, most wouldn't even think of it.

I think what 10086Sundays was trying to say, is that most Broadway actors would prefer someone politely asking for autographs at the stagedoor, than someone bullying that person on a message board (i.e. calling them "loathsome" or "gross". Though they probably could've expressed that view a little clearer.

Long story short, y'all have very good points, you just gotta express them better LOL

[yankeefan7]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 6:08pm

"I myself do not stage door. The show is enough for me, if I am very moved by a performance I will stage door just to thank them. But even now, I can’t take it anymore."

I can probably count on one hand how many shows I have been on a stage door line and got Playbill signed and I have never had picture of myself with actor/actress. I have waited on line for my daughters who are now in their late twenties who stage door fairly regularly when they see shows. I am the one that will take a picture of them if they request one. The last time I was on stage door line was for "Hello Dolly" because I wanted program signed by David Hyde Pierce because I loved him in "Frazier" and did not get Playbill signed by him when we saw "Curtains". I can say that I have been fortunate and have never witnessed anybody being a jerk while waiting at Stage Door. 

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 7:11pm

I think what people are failing to see is that if the actor doesn't want to stage door he doesn't have to. There are many Broadway actors who do not. Laura Benanti explained why she doesn't, but others just don't -- Nathan Lane, Denzel Washington, Bette Midler, Patti Lupone, Zachary Quinto, Jim Parsons, Ben Platt, Javier Munoz, etc. I've never actually witnessed actors being shoved or berated or maybe I just don't stage door enough. What I've always seen is that some actors seem to take to this sort of thing naturally and chat with fans (e.g. Donna Murphy, Andy Karl) and others prefer to wave to the crowd and go home (the vast majority of actors after a double day show) and others sneak out an alternate exit (Nathan Lane) and those boundaries are respected. 

Actors also do not have to interact with fans on social media. If they choose to engage, again, that's their choice. Some actors have no social media. Others just use it in a limited sense and do not use it to "interact" with fans at all. No one is forcing anyone to do anything. If Javier Munoz or Cynthia Erivo get into it with people on twitter and there are bad feelings, again, that is THEIR choice. 

There is a spectrum of behaviors and attitudes and interactions actors choose to have with their fans. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 7:39pm

It's not a competition. People being loathsome here (and there are plenty of them) does not reduce the loathsomeness of people stage dooring. And it is a lot easier to ignore whatever you want online than when running the gauntlet of the stage door. P.S. It is not so easy for an actor to not stage door. Some can get away with it but many live in fear of being sh*t on on social media if they don't, not to mention the grief they get from agents, managers, and producers. As I said earlier, it's gross, pathetic, selfish, and a bunch of other words not permitted here.

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 11/13/18 at 12:13am

Nothing said in this thread so far has changed my mind. We can all have our opinions but it doesn't change the reality of the situation. Which is that there are people for whom stage-dooring is part of the experience of seeing a show. And the same way you make an announcement about turning off cell phones or you put up barricades at the stage door, it just makes sense to respond to this behavior. You can feel however you want to but if you don't say anything then you're going to have people camped out at the stage door. And maybe that's what you want. But it doesn't feel like a good use of anyone's time to keep pretending that stage dooring isn't as popular as it is. It feels like refusing to acknowledge it and behave accordingly just leads (unnecessarily) to bad feelings on all sides.

Also, people are being far too over the top. Now we have to hate ourselves for writing reviews? I don't think theater is limited to your experience in the theater. If I did, I wouldn't be on a message board wanting to discuss shows after I've seen them. And you're not crazy for wanting a memento from a positive experience. For some people that's Playbills or T-shirts or magnets and for others it's selfies and signatures. If we're going to talk about this, I don't think it helps to be hyperbolic. As long as you're not taking pictures during the show, it feels a little silly in 2018 to complain about people wanting to capture a memory with a photo. It's not always about bragging on social media. Don't you take photos on vacation? Have you never taken a photo at a wedding, birthday, or other special event?  

[HogansHero]

Posted: 11/13/18 at 12:28am

@vintagesnarker it is not the taking of a picture that is offensive, it is the intrusion. It is asking a person who just got off work to work: to pose for a pic with you, and to sign an autograph. You may see it as a part of the experience but it is not. When you eat in a restaurant, you can't go into the kitchen afterwards and nosh. If you don't see the difference between what you think is cool and vacation/wedding/etc photos, all I can say is I'm sorry.

[CedricOates]

Posted: 11/13/18 at 12:42am

We are all talking about stagedoor experiences and the current climate, I cannot wait to see how we all feel once Be More Chill comes to Broadway in a few months ??

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 11/13/18 at 1:10am

HogansHero said: "@vintagesnarker it is not the taking of a picture that is offensive, it is the intrusion. It is asking a person who just got off work to work:to pose for a pic with you, and to sign an autograph. You may see it as a part of the experience but it is not. When you eat in a restaurant, you can't go into the kitchen afterwards and nosh. If you don't see the difference between what you think is cooland vacation/wedding/etc photos, all I can say is I'm sorry."

I wasn't responding to you but to the generalizations about people not being able to experience anything now without taking pictures. I think we should talk about stage dooring not have "get off my lawn" rants about whether society is broken because people like using the phones on their cameras. It's an oversimplification to chalk it all up to bragging on social media. People have loved taking pictures for a long time. It's not a new thing. It's just easier and more convenient now.

That said, I do think it's important to set aside your feelings and deal with the situation as it is. Say you're at that restaurant and the plating is beautiful so people want to take photos before they eat. Those photos could boost the profile of your restaurant and get you more customers. But it also takes up time and makes it more difficult to cycle diners in and out. Do you make a rule that there should be no photos? Do you ask waiters to stand near the table if someone is taking a lot of photos as a subtle deterrent? It's not a perfect analogy, but it's better to respond to a situation that's going to keep happening than grumble like things are out of your control. As a lot of people have pointed out, people at the stage door tend to be young. They'll most likely follow the rules you set out. 

[Sondheimite]

Posted: 11/13/18 at 1:51am

CedricOates said: "We are all talking about stagedoor experiences and the current climate, I cannot wait to see how we all feel once Be More Chill comes to Broadway in a few months ??"

this video is what i feel like inside when I think about the Be More Chill fandom.

 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 11/13/18 at 1:57am

I don't think I've joined in any sociological rant, and that was certainly not my intention. The extent of my interest is in conveying that what folks are doing is not acceptable behavior, with the hope that they will think about it and act otherwise. Along the lines of "cover your mouth and nose when you sneeze." Taking photos is not analogous, and certainly taking photos of your food in a restaurant is not, I feel confident you can appreciate, intrusive in the way stage dooring is. (I have no issue at all with the privacy aspect. If you want to stand on the sidewalk and snap a photo of some actor (or of me!) have at it. But you have no right to intrude, you have no entitlement to interact. It's not cool.)

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 11/13/18 at 2:21am

I think it is acceptable behavior. That is, it's become a behavior that has been sanctioned by the participation of all parties involved. And it doesn't make sense to behave like these are just some random stalkers who decided, of their own accord, to start haunting particular theater exits. And it doesn't make sense to behave like it's not going to happen (and most theaters don't, having barricades and guards and a vague sense of rules though I personally think that could be improved by additional communication about whether an actor is coming out, having more security/order, etc.)

It's really difficult to think of an analogy because stage dooring is pretty unique. I think it's somewhere between Halloween and the merch table after a concert. Like, everyone knows that Halloween is going to happen. It doesn't make sense to pretend like you don't know it's going to happen and act offended when someone rings your doorbell. You can opt out but for the most part, people choose to participate. As for concerts, most times if you want a guaranteed interaction with a performer, you need to buy a special ticket package. But sometimes if you hang around the merch table, the performer will come out afterwards to sign something or pose for pictures. The benefit of a concert venue of course is that you can usher people out while you can't really kick people off a public sidewalk. But again, I'm talking about the general rule-abiding audience who has become used to this practice and not the outlier crazy folks who take things too far.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 11/13/18 at 2:36am

I think the above discussion of the impact of social media is excellent, and I don't want to detract from it. But as resident curmudgeon (Whatever happened to After Eight anyway?), I do want to point out that I have vivid memories of hundreds, maybe thousands, of teenage girls chasing the Beatles or the Stones through the streets of London, New York, Liverpool, etc.

Do FB and Twitter encourage an artificial sense of intimacy with performers? Sure. But crazed fans were not invented by the internet.

***

Speaking for myself, I have never understood the appeal of accosting (even politely) a celebrity in real life. I've had a handful of intriguing conversations with celebrities when we were working together, but what am I as a fan going to say to Laura Benanti that she hasn't heard a thousand times? And what is she going to reply, except something vaguely polite? The two of us might as well be reciting the Latin Mass for all the actual conversation going on.

I'd rather my children and grandchildren learn to reflect critically on what they just saw than exchange pleasantries with a performer they don't actually know.

[jordynmcanany]

Posted: 11/13/18 at 4:51am

I truly do not understand why people get so upset about stage-dooring. It seems like some people are acting like it's just people randomly standing outside the theaters, but nowadays most theaters literally prepare barricades and arrange for it beforehand. Actors can choose whether or not they want to stage door or not. The actors themselves comes to the barricades/people. If they don't want to, and they simply want to go home, then they'll walk past or go out a different exit. Literally no one is defending people who follow people home, or ask for someone's entire schedule, but stage dooring in itself seems like a pretty non-evasive thing. No one is forced to do anything.

And while it's not *officially* part of the theater experience when you  buy a ticket, it is most definitely part of theater culture now, especially for younger theater-goers. Not sure if that's a great thing, but I also don't think it's a terrible thing either. I don't stage door "obsessively" like some, but I've seen the Cursed Child quite a few times now, and I love stagedooring for that show. I think it's a perfect example of how good of an experience stage dooring can be when done properly. The barricades are long so there is no pushing. There are members of the cast who do not come out, and people respect that. People pay the same respect to the ensemble as they do principle cast. It's pretty well-known that they only stage door after part 2 and people respect that (i.e. i know many people who have spotted one of the cast - even some who don't stage door - around the theater at other times and they won't bother them). Plus, it's cool to talk to the actors about their characters - especially this cast, because they essentially helped workshop/create these characters. 

Sadly I know that not every show is like that. I stagedoored for Lifespan of a Fact a weeks ago and it was the most horrid experience of my life. Everyone was there for Daniel, and he actually ended up leaving halfway through because of how disrespectful people were being. 

 

But my point is - you can't lump everything together. (I also would like to add about the numerous restaurant comparisons people keep trying to make - that is clearly not the same at all lol. Otherwise things like Flea wouldn't exist, or they wouldn't be able to sell 100$ signed playbills, etc.. If you think it's okay to exploit people's admiration for cash (which I am not arguing that it isn't okay), then I don't see how you can have a problem with some actors allowing fans the opportunity for free either. Again, it's their choice, they don't have to come out and stage door. That said, in nicer restaurants, it actually isn't unheard of for the chef to come over to a table as a treat, or wanting to give compliments to someone who cooked a meal that exceeded expectations. 

At the end of the day, it's personal preference for everyone, but I don't think anyone has the right to be as harsh as some people were being for stagedooring alone. Stalking is obviously a whole different thing.

 

now to actually answer the question of the thread...

I think a small thing that might add to the issue is who exactly is being cast. A lot of shows will cast a big name - sometimes a name moreso linked with hollywood than broadway - and this brings in people who only want to come for that name. Re: Daniel Radcliffe being cast in Lifespan of a Fact (which he's brilliant in). So many people were coming to stagedoor who didn't even see the play that there now exists two separate barricades; one for people who saw the play and one for people who didn't. 

And there's obviously a huge handful of others. Sometimes even if it is a solely-broadway person, but their reach has expanded to "fandom" levels (Like the cast of DEH).

[jordynmcanany]

Posted: 11/13/18 at 5:02am

I also just want to add, if getting an autograph at the end of the night encourages more young people to go to the theater then I personally am all for it. I do not agree with the entitlement, but that's something people grow out of usually. If it helps sells ticket, and keeps shows open, I'm all for it as long as people are being respectful.

In New York it's obviously different but here in Western PA theater is a dying art. Many schools have cut programs. We have one theater that hosts shows in like a 100 mil radius and for the longest time it rarely got anything, and when we did ticket sales were less than great. Thankfully with shows like DEH and Hamilton I've seen somewhat of a rise, but even so. Young people just have other things they'd rather do than go to the theater in a lot of places, and if "fandom", stagedooring, etc. changes this then isn't that a good thing?

Most bands nowadays sell m&g packages because ticket and albums sales aren't enough to keep them viable. Most Mid-range hotels offer free breakfast and/or wifi because they need other ways to draw people in. The culture of things change over lengths of time and clearly theater isn't immune. 

Updated On: 11/13/18 at 05:02 AM

[GhostXmasPast]

Posted: 11/13/18 at 7:44am

What was once an opportunity to share a kind word with a performer, or catch a glimpse of an actor / actress out of character, has often devolved into mayhem. Autograph hounds carting piles of memorabilia to get signed - hoping to make a quick buck - are jostling with hysterical fans forcing their way into actors personal space to catch a selfie - and others with their own agendas.

Eventually this culture will reach a breaking point - and theaters / producers / cast / unions will begin to develop alternatives to regain control.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 11/13/18 at 8:45am

@snarker I do not think it is acceptable. Behavior changes through knowledge and all I am here to do is impart that the behavior is intrusive (and selfish etc) and not cool. I have heard from young people that they had never realized this was not cool. That's how behavior changes: some people think it is ok because everyone else is doing it and when they figure out it is not they stop. Very few actors can choose not to engage, and that is a fact. 

[Armie3]

Posted: 11/13/18 at 10:09am

Do you make any distinction at all between unruly mobs at a teen musical, and for example, 4-5 actual fans at an Albee play?

Updated On: 11/13/18 at 10:09 AM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 11/13/18 at 11:03am

No, not if the "fan" is still imposing on the actor. In both cases, the "fan" is intruding into the private space of the actor. As I said above, I have no issue with snapping pics as the person walks away or gets in a car. It's when the "fan" wants to have an "experience" at the expense of the actor who has completed their work for the day. 

[Kad]

Posted: 11/13/18 at 11:13am

I stagedoored when I was a teenager, which was just as social media as we know it was emerging (MySpace was the thing; I think Facebook really took off during my junior year of high school). I was in the theatre program of an arts high school in Florida, and stagedooring on the relatively rare occasion I made up to NYC was a nice way to meet and talk with professionals working in the field I aspired to join, and a signed Playbill was a nice memento of a production that was influential in the way seeing any major production as a young artist is influential.

Fan culture now, as I have observed it, doesn't have much of the "these people are doing what I want to be doing", role-model aspect that drove me to stagedoor when I was younger. So much of modern fan culture is about the accessibility of well-known personalities on social media, and that crosses over into stage dooring, which is now just a physical manifestation of someone noteworthy retweeting you.

 

[Armie3]

Posted: 11/13/18 at 11:24am

Taking pictures of somebody on the street without permission is just as much of an intrusion, I would think, probably even more so than somebody who approaches and asks. 

[Bwayfan292]

Posted: 11/13/18 at 12:18pm

While yes my examples have been a bit extreme, (which I thought was the main point we were focusing on) I want to note that not all stage dooring is bad. I have had great experinces at stage doors that the show isn’t as popular with the teens. It’s more the shows that have a huge teen base following we see the bad behavior, and as someone else noted I think it’s because they are not theatre fans. They come from different “fandoms” where that behavior is normal.