What is the Deal with Today's Stagedoor Culture?

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 2:23am

I wrote this in a thread that just got deleted (for obvious reasons), but would like to start a conversation.

I do not understand today’s culture of obsessing over stagedoor schedules, habits, trends, whatever.

I’ve always viewed the stagedoor as a fun, impromptu way of meeting actors after a performance if I really enjoyed a show. It’s a pleasure to chat with and thank whoever decided to come out after delivering a great show.

Now, many have the *expectation* of religiously stagedooring. Signatures and selfies are no longer a fun surprise after a Broadway show; they’re expected now, and even demanded. We’re at the point where people like Laura Benanti have to put out a public statement about stagedooring. And earlier tonight, we had a now-deleted thread asking about the intricacies of Christy Altomare’s daily post-show schedule (!!).

It frustrates me to see this sense of entitlement in the theatre fan community. Actors do not owe you squat beyond a great performance. I wish fans could calm down and stop getting so demanding with what they do after the final curtain comes down.

So, stepping off the soapbox now, my question, and I mean this genuinely, is WHY do fans care so deeply about stagedooring these days?

Updated On: 11/12/18 at 02:23 AM

[Bwayfan292]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 2:32am

I feel like social media plays a big part in this. Actors and Actresses are way more interactive with their fans on social media. Responding to them, liking their pictures, giving shoutouts etc.

The younger these “fans” get the more they see the actors as their “friends” I believe. Just like the spongebob girl who followed ethan home, or the mean girls stans who are rude af to the ensemble and standys to get closer to the principals, these kids don't think about the actions they are actually doing.

Even when I first got into broadway, which was the (2015-2016 season) I dont remember the community being this active on social media. There was a respect where you were lucky to get a like on a comment you left, you never sent dms or followed people home. But now I feel like these kids go to a show JUST to stagedoor. All you see on social media is, I met this person and this person. No one really cares about the show anymore and thats sad.


I myself do not stage door. The show is enough for me, if I am very moved by a performance I will stage door just to thank them. But even now, I can’t take it anymore. The stage door has become a place that triggers my anexity and I feel like I have to leave right away, theres no thank you’s, no you were great in the show. It’s all just, why cant this person come out, take a selfie with me, or refusing to have ensemble members sign cause they are not “worthy of it”. Stage doors are changing and it’s not for the better.

[Sondheimite]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 2:33am

I agree with everything said above.

I stopped stagedooring a few years ago because the culture got too scary and entitled.

I think that the problem lies with a lot of younger fans.  The first generation that grew up with the internet think differently than we do.  Kids age 20 and under (because, let's be honest... everyone under 21 is still a kid and they are just practicing talking....) grew up having access to the internet.  It has created entitlement, a "I WANT IT NOW" mentality, and a way for these people to organize and encourage each others bad behavior.   

[Sondheimite]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 2:37am

The internet has also caused us to see others as "inhuman."  The internet allows everyone to live in our nerossis and social media allows everyone to construct "reality" to be whatever one wants it to be.  We don't see the other people on the internet as "people", we see them as pieces in our chess game.  It's created a culture where everyone is detached, self centered, and living in their own delusional constructed reality.  This culture has allowed us to treat those around us, including Broadway stars in the cases of these kids, badly.  

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 3:14am

Putting aside anyone acting too crazy, I actually think that shows need to adapt to this new normal. To clarify, if Laura Benanti is not going to come out, then she can make a statement and that can be the end of it. If actors never come out for matinees, that should be known. If an actor has gone home or doesn't want to stage door that night, just let the guard announce it and let everyone go home. Of course no one is being forced to wait at the stage door and no actors should be forced to do the stage door but I don't understand this level of informality. It makes things weird on both sides. It's kind of like having rush. If there's no rush policy then no one is going to show up for rush. But if rush tickets are sometimes available on an inconsistent basis then people are going to behave oddly hoping to get a chance at those rush tickets. Again, I'm not excusing anything or blaming anyone but I just think making things a little more official would help and also stop blurring the lines for people who can't separate an actor behaving in a professional capacity from friendship. And it would stop people from hanging out needlessly and blocking the sidewalk. 

[Dave28282]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 4:54am

Sondheimnite, very well said! And that internet culture/mindset and the effects of that reach much further than just stage door situations.

VintageSnarker, I think you are comparing stagedooring with an official event too much. Rush policy is about a show, where it is desired to sell as much tickets as possible as a business and where the company wants to meet audiences in their pursue for a ticket. Stagedooring is never an event about wanting to attract people or about any desire of wanting to give fans a chance of something. If you say that actors should make a statement when not coming out so everybody can go home, should they also make a statement when they do come out, so everybody needs to come?

If you want to make any of this official you need a totally different organization, and for example, organise monthly autographs sessions on a specific location and hire the actors to come and sign, like they sometimes do with film and tv actors. But people leaving after a show, or walking in for work in their private time is nothing like this.

Updated On: 11/12/18 at 04:54 AM

[adamgreer]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 7:22am

VintageSnarker said: "Putting aside anyone acting too crazy, I actually think that shows need to adapt to this new normal. To clarify, if Laura Benanti is not going to come out, then she can make a statement and that can be the end of it. If actors never come out for matinees, that should be known. If an actor has gone home or doesn't want to stage door that night, just let the guard announce it and let everyone go home. Of course no one is being forced to wait at the stage door and no actors should be forced to do the stage door but I don't understand this level of informality. It makes things weird on both sides. It's kind of like having rush. If there's no rush policy then no one is going to show up for rush. But if rush tickets are sometimes available on an inconsistent basis then people are going to behave oddly hoping to get a chance at those rush tickets. Again, I'm not excusing anything or blaming anyone but I just think making things a little more official would help and also stop blurring the lines for people who can't separate an actor behaving in a professional capacity from friendship. And it would stop people from hanging out needlessly and blocking the sidewalk."

But it’s not the audience’s business. They shouldn’t need to make any sort of announcement about who is or is not coming out. The audience isn’t owed that. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 8:11am

As I have said many times before, stage dooring is an odious, loathsome, gross, selfish, and pathetic practice. Anyone who does it needs to think about what they are doing. If you go to dinner and wait outside for the waiter, you are stalking. When you stage door, it is the same. And let us not hear people say that the actors enjoy it. They are actors; of course the act like they do. They don't. How much would you enjoy it if you had to stay after work day after day to do something you are not getting paid to do? All of this said, I agree that it has gotten out of control due to social media and the bullying of actors that results.

[LarryD2]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 8:48am

Stage door culture has been around for decades. I've seen it personally since I started working in theater in the late 1980s. But the culture of entitlement has grown significantly in the last decade or so -- largely due, in my mind at least, to the rise of social media and the erasure of ideas of traditional boundaries. Because a lot of actors (especially theater actors) and artists are on social media and interact with their fans, it creates (for some) an idea that relationships between artists and their audience are closer than they actually are in reality. At least that's what I believe.

Performing is a job. When an actor leaves the stage door, they are leaving their place of work to try and go live their life. Expecting them to take another half-hour on top of their performance is just keeping them from getting home to spouse/kids, meeting friends, eating, getting much-needed rest, or doing whatever the heck they want because they're on their own time. 

[kelsey1389]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 9:09am

I find myself in the younger crowd of theatergoers now (I'm 19) and I will normally stage door a show after I've seen it. Depending on the show, I'm either one of the oldest there or one of the youngest. I did the stage door of Mean Girls after a matinee, and I expected basically no one to come out, so I was pleasantly surprised when Grey Henson (Damien) came out to sign. He was very sweet and took his time with everyone, and when he was done the girl next to me (probably 14/15) was in TEARS because Kyle Selig didn't come out. It was so unbelievably uncomfortable. 

I've had a similar experience to the one I just wrote about at Frozen as well, but it was with an ADULT. Who was there with her HUSBAND. Tuesday night show, again, was expecting no one, was super excited to see most of the principals signing. Had a great conversation with Timothy Hughes (this was right after he snatched that Trump flag from the audience member) and got to meet Patti Murin, who was so sweet. But Caissie Levy didn't stage door, nor does she really ever. And the grown woman next to me was asking why she wasn't signing, and I explained that (although it is absolutely none of my business) she has a young son and I'm sure she just wants to get home to him. This lady would not stop complaining about how if she just hustled at the stage door, Caissie could still get home early. It was honestly appalling- I had never seen an adult act like that at the stage door, ever.

Anyway, I agree in saying that most of the problem lies in the younger fans who feel entitled to meet actors even when it's not a guarantee. It's a shame that people take advantage of something that is completely voluntary on the part of the actors. I still stage door- I like to thank actors for the work they've put it, and it's also a fun way to meet people who like the same show as you (I met one of my closest friends at the stage door of Phantom years ago) But I wish that people would appreciate the actors for the work they were doing instead of the selfie they want to put online.

[Theatrefanboy1]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 9:20am

I completely agree that it has gotten so much worse in recent years. I used to religiously go to the stage door after a show and collect signatures on my window card back in 2010. When I first started. But then it went to obc and now just my hand full of performers that I really have looked up to because it has become such a sour experience with people. I couldn’t believe recently at the mean girls stage door the way people were making sexually inappropriate comments to the guy who played aaron samuels. And this was coming from young girls. And they would not let it stop. Then every single person wanted a picture and multiple autographs and felt that he should have full on conversations as he was working through a hundred plus people. It’s no wonder why actors are choicing to pass on the stage door thing. It’s exhausting and creepy and sooo needy. (It also sucks because on my personal list of people I’d like to meet. A lot of them now avoid the stage door. Which back in the day (even as recent as ten years ago) it was a causal thing. Heck before that they didn’t even have the people pens set up and it was a similar unblocked interaction)

[HogansHero]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 9:22am

I obviously agree, Larry. One related point: the reason stage dooring is possible is a function of when Broadway theatres were built and to a lesser extent the nature of New York City. Most Broadway houses have no means of egress other than by walking across a public sidewalk. Were they built today, there would be an alcove or an underground means of access, so there would be no stage dooring possible because it would necessitate trespassing. This is not just a problem in the theatre. Just look at one of the selling points of buildings like 432 Park, which offers high profile residents a private driveway.

[theaterdarling]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 9:55am

Extremely well said and bravo BroadwayConcierge, HogansHero and AdamGreer , but it will all likely fall on the sad, deaf ears of those obsessives who really need to hear it.

I knew that stage dooring had become peculiar and creepy, but I got a special peek at the crazy, crazy sense of entitlement and dysfunction while waiting for an Uber on the street where the MOULIN ROUGE stage door line emptied out on to after seeing an evening performance. Wow. I can only surmise that stage dooring truly seems to feed an emptiness in people and satisfies some sort of deluded notion that proximity to fame or success (documented with an assault style selfie) will somehow complete or distinguish you. It truly is no longer about "thanking" someone for their performance.  One woman went on and on about how she knew the "rules" of the stage door line and no "security lady" was going to tell her otherwise. She had a "right" to be on that street and no one was going to "clear" her from it. When the show hits NY, given the even more aggressive nature of the NY fans, I get a little concerned for Tveit, Olivo, et al's safety.

And for God's sake-- especially with a show like MOULIN ROUGE. Whether you thought it was a successful adaption of the movie or not, you have to agree that the entire cast put everything they had on that stage with 2 1/2+  hours of incredibly rigorous singing and dancing. The cast was rewarded for it with, literally, show-stopping applause and again with rapturous applause at curtain--as was appropriate. Normal, well-integrated folk know that after such a display that it is time to let an exhausted cast go home in peace. Needless to say, poorly integrated personalities abound among the fangirls and fanboys that only therapy and social media withdrawal might cure.  At this point, though, I believe only  the actors refusal to participate in the stage door madness can break the obsessiveness that now rules. If no actors participate, the practice will soon die.

A special place in hell for those who don't even see the show and are JUST there for the photos and the merch they want to resell. That motivation is summed up on one word: money. These chat boards in large part fuel this by letting those asking "who comes out"  when you know they have no real interest in or intention of seeing the show.

 

[SomethingPeculiar]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 9:58am

I think some of the entitlement comes from ticket prices: "I spent $150 on a show, I should get to meet the actors!" (WRONG.) Social media and spoiled children have made it so nasty and chaotic, and I think it's going to get worse before it gets better. I'm a little surprised more full casts haven't announced that there will be no stage door activity (I think Meteor Shower did that?). Or, some producer capitalizes on a backstage VIP meet-and-greet experience with the cooperation/compensation of the lead actors, which some musicians do after their concerts for the most expensive ticketholders. 

A family friend who loved Broadway talked about waiting at the stage door for Mary Martin and Gertrude Lawrence, and followed Robert Preston down the street for an autograph. But it somehow feels more innocent when coming from an 80+ year old talking about legends of the past.

[BroadwayPrincess3]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 10:14am

BroadwayConcierge said: "I wrote this in a thread that just got deleted (for obvious reasons), but would like to start a conversation.

I do not understand today’s culture of obsessing over stagedoor schedules, habits, trends, whatever.

 And earlier tonight, we had a now-deleted thread asking about the intricacies of Christy Altomare’s daily post-show schedule (!!)."

What on earth were they asking to get an entire thread deleted?! I'm sickening curious. (About the questions they asked, NOT the answers - I have no desire to get this thread deleted, nor do I care to know about Altomare's private, daily life). 

 

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 10:44am

I find Benanti to be an interesting example here because of how active and interactive she is on social media. She’s made herself available to fans that way, and now feels that she has to explain herself to fans when she doesn’t want to talk to them at the stage door.

I also think there’s so much emphasis on the fans being able to present something tangible from their stage door experience. A selfie, a personalized message, a video of Patti LuPone saying she hates Donald Trump. It gives them something to brag about in fandom communities.

[Armie3]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 11:03am

Wow, HogansHero, I think you are being just a touch harsh. Not all stage-doorers are odious and pathetic. I no longer stage door, as it's unseemly after a certain age..I think maybe after mid-20s you should have grown out of it, but before then I think it's an innocent enough pursuit. I treasure some of the photos I have of me with my idols. At all times, I was extremely respectful and more importantly appreciative - I always was aware that I was imposing, and asking for their valuable time. Actors are of course free to say "no", like Bebe Neuwirth for example. 

I totally agree it has gotten way, way out of hand, but it can be done in a way that's harmless, I do believe that.

[JBroadway]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 11:25am

Virtually nothing has been said in this thread that hasn’t been discussed in dozens of threads before. Funny how people on this board are such sticklers about being economical with thread usage, but any new chance to complain about the same old things, and suddenly thread redundancy doesn’t matter.

One poster above said that it will “fall on deaf ears,” but I think “preaching to the choir” is a more accurate expression to describe this discussion. The ears aren’t deaf, they’ve just heard this all before.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 12:05pm

@Armie3 yes, harsh. Perhaps there was a genteel form of it once upon a time. I can't remember back that far and as others have said the genie is not going back in the bottle. What I know is that it is an intrusion whether polite or not, and while you may treasure it, you obtained it at the expense of another. It's not just at the stage door, by the way. Try going out for a drink at a place that isn't clubby or hidden. All of a sudden, everyone is lined up for a selfie. It's not cool, and folks need to understand that.

@JBroadway whatever. No one expects the self-entitled crowd here to give up their fetish, but it does not fall entirely on deaf ears because I have heard from numerous people over the years who have said that they never realized the impact of their actions, and how it is perceived. 

[bwayrose7]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 12:43pm

I genuinely don't get why this, like so much else, gets painted with such a broad brush. Yes, some fans go overboard and are entitled stalkers. Yes, some are respectful. Yes, some actors put a brave face on it. Yes, some actors enjoy interacting with fans. It's not one-size-fits-all.

I have friends and acquaintances (not social media "friends," but actual friends and colleagues, just to get that out of the way) who are performers and who have a huge range of reactions to stage door culture. One hates it. One calls it the best part of their job (except on days when they're tired or sick). One found it helpful as a way to come back to "reality" after performing a role that was mentally and emotionally taxing. Why is it so hard to say that different people have different reactions?

[jae_lynn13]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 12:54pm

Before I read any other replies, I would like to share my views based on what I've witnessed (and done) personally. It is now evident that there is a much younger audience in the Theatre community. Along with their diffusion into the community, they have brought along new obsessions and "culture" if that's how you want to put it. What I have noticed is that many of the people associated with this new wave of fans have come from other fandoms where there are other expectations, traditions, and behavior. For example, I was once a fan of many television shows and it was very rare that I would have been able to meet my favorite actors. As I became a fan of Theatre, stage dooring was a wonderful way of being able to meet my favorite performers. Although I use myself as an example, I do not identify with this new wave of people in the Theatre community at all. After analyzing everything and drawing upon assumptions, I have concluded that these new people in the community are obsessed with stage dooring so they can take advantage of a privilege just so they can meet their favorite idols. "Stanning" is also a key term that is now used in today's pop culture and is essential to this situation. This is a part of the "culture" that young people have brought to the Theatre community. Many of you probably have a favorite celebrity that you support and would love to see perform live, but "stanning" takes this to a new level. I think a few people have mentioned this, but social media also plays a big part in this. "Stanning" occurs mainly through social media where people keep track of celebrities' every move (where they go to eat, their family members, their favorite foods, their relationships, etc). This can be seen as an invasion of privacy to some, but for these newcomers, it is the norm. They become so attached to these people, and in Theatre, when they are in a show and they have a chance of meeting them at the stage door, they make sure to take advantage of it. Of course, this has now become a problem in the Theatre community and many performers now dread stage dooring. While I love stage dooring and saying thank you to the performers (I have given letters to a few performers now and then) I never think stage dooring is a right, it is a privilege. I can elaborate more on this, but I will now read other replies and see what you guys think of my take on this; I can't wait to hear your input. 

 

After reading a few replies: I know that this does not apply to ALL NEWCOMERS and that it is unfair to group them all together. I would say that I could be categorized as a younger fan, but I have not showcased any traits that many people find "rude or disrespectful". My favorite stage door experience was with Once on this Island. Everyone was absolutely amazing and I had the privilege of telling most of them what a great job they did and how I was mesmerized by all their performances. Everyone was so sweet and no fan was disrespectful, some just got their playbills signed and left. However, I can see how some people believe people are only seeing shows now for the performers and not the actual show. It seems as if this stage dooring culture continues, the art of Theatre and the appreciation of it could easily be lost on younger audiences and the only way to fix it is to educate them on its importance. Even signing up for your school's Theatre classes or helping in school or local productions can help educate younger audiences on the art of Theatre. For those select few that abuse the privilege of stage dooring, we need to teach them stage dooring is a place to thank performers and appreciate their dedication to the art form. 

Updated On: 11/12/18 at 12:54 PM

[Sondheimite]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 12:59pm

Armie3 said: "Wow, HogansHero, I think you are being just a touch harsh. Not all stage-doorers are odious and pathetic. I no longer stage door, as it's unseemly after a certain age..I think maybe after mid-20s you should have grown out of it, but before then I think it's an innocent enough pursuit. I treasure some of the photos I have of me with my idols. At all times, I was extremely respectful and more importantly appreciative."

I 100% agree with this.  I hit 24 and suddenly realized that having patti luPone scribble on my playbill on the way to her car wouldn't make me a better performer, director, artist, or person.

I understood the strange feeling of stagedooring to a low extent when I played Hedwig in Hedwig and the Angry Inch.  The production was in a space attached to a bar and the only way out was through the bar.  So I'd leave the dressing room with all my makeup off (looking like a bald eyebrowless alien) and on most nights there would be people waiting to speak to me.  And then the fight between the overwhelming feeling of being SO thankful that people were moved enough by my performance that they felt the need to stick around and communicate their feelings to me got in direct combat with the overwhelming feeling of being SO TIRED and beat and just wanting to curl up to the fetal possession in the passenger seat of my significant others car to go home.... well.... those two dichotomies would fight every night. 

I tried to spend time with everyone and listen to them and stay engaged.  I connected with a few on social media because I thought it was important the stoke the fire of the arts AND the fire of upstarting theatre communities in younger people.  But it was really hard not to just collapse onto the floor after playing that role.  I had already stopped stage dooring by the time in my life I'd played Hedwig but playing Hedwig cemented that I wouldn't stage door again.

If I see a performance that moves me to my core, I write a letter addressed to the theatre thanking the cast/director/crew with a few five dollar starbucks gift cards inside :)

[HogansHero]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 1:07pm

bwayrose7 said: "I genuinely don't get why this, like so much else, gets painted with such a broad brush. Yes, some fans go overboard and are entitled stalkers. Yes, some are respectful. Yes, some actors put a brave face on it. Yes, some actors enjoy interacting with fans. It's not one-size-fits-all."

Problem is... there is no way to separate the freaks out, nor is there a way to identify which category an actor falls in. Whatever may have been, and whatever might be, it isn't. 

[Bwayfan292]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 1:11pm

I also think a problem is that the younger crowd, even people my age (19), think that these broadway stars are not celebrity's. So what they are doing is okay.

Another thing thats annoying, is people EXPECT you to stage door, if you don't theres backlash. People EXPECT you to take a dozen pictures and sign dozens of things. Theres no more sympathy with the younger crowd anymore. They don’t care if you just gave the performance of a life time. If you don’t come out and give them an instagram picture. Threads are created asking what’s wrong, they are labeled rude to their fans.

[carnzee]

Posted: 11/12/18 at 1:15pm

There have been so many threads on this same subject; I don't mind the multiple threads because I'm genuinely interested in what made stagedoor culture decline.

Every thread seems to agree: social media is the bad guy.

Lovely stagedoor experiences can still be had. It was nice chatting with a small group after A Dollshouse II. Laurie and the others came out and signed, briefly chatted with the group of a dozen fans, and left. But this experience isn't possible at shows that attract teens and/or stargazers.