judy kaye replaces madeline kahn in on 20th century?what is the real story?- Page 2

[broadwayriff]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 12:34pm

The irony of it all is that Kaye was just a chorus girl who went on for the "diva" of the show and became a star, and then ten years later she played the "diva" in "Phantom" who was upstaged by the understudy,in a Hal Prince show. Talk about art imitating life.

[D2]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 12:41pm

And she was far better than the "understudy" who upstaged her in POTO, which unfortunately made the story rather senseless. I mean, really -- Judy Kaye is a better actress, singer and comedian than Sarah Brightman.

Although Newt is right that Kaye (while giving a far more consistent performance all around) was not as funny as Kahn in her best moments, particularly Kahn's early scene as Mildred Plotka, where she brought the house down just by saying "That's okay." And Kahn's "Babette" was breathtaking.

Updated On: 3/12/12 at 12:41 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 12:55pm

..except that Kahn was and still is the bigger star.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 1:10pm

"Actually, when I cast her, I thought Madeline Kahn was Bernadette Peters,"

Oh, this could be fun.

Harold, who did you think Elaine Stritch was when you cast her in Company? Who did you think Glynis Johns was when you cast her in A Little Night Music?

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 1:26pm

Bernadette must have been fuming with his optometrist. I wonder how things would've panned out had she actually gotten the role. (Not that I necessarily believe Hal anyway.)

Updated On: 3/12/12 at 01:26 PM

[egghumor]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 1:27pm

Hal thought Betsy Joslyn was Bebe Neuwirth

[Wee Thomas2]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 1:43pm

"except that Kahn was and still is the bigger star."

Well, she's not so big nowadays

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 1:54pm

I realize that ON THE 20TH CENTURY was based on a famous play that was beloved by audiences. But I must be the only person on this Board who didn't love the musical version. For that matter I didn't like the play either. It had nothing to so with Madeline Kahn or any of the other actors. Kahn was charming both in this show and in BORN YESTERDAY. I fault the book of ON THE 20TH CENTURY which I found boring. I also did not think the score was that good, except for the great number with the railroad porters. Call me a stick in the mud, if you will, but that is my opinion.

Updated On: 3/12/12 at 01:54 PM

Posted: 3/12/12 at 2:15pm

Wow. Well I guess that's why Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors.

I saw it on tour when I was in High school and loved it. I credit (Blame?) it for a lifetime of loving musical theater. I don't recall if I knew who Imogene Coca was (Maybe from the Brady Bunch?) but I loved loved loved her from the moment she walked on.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 2:30pm

When a member of my family worked in the Prince office in the mid-80s, they were still telling that story about Kahn on opening night. Only then it was Prince's associate producer Ruth Mitchell who went to Kahn's dressing room to congratulate her and reportedly the reply was, "Well, I hope you don't expect me to do that eight times a week!"

The stories my husband heard there always focussed on Kahn's inconsistent performances, not what we normally think of as bad, diva-like behavior. Nobody who talked to him seemed to dislike her as a person.

Myself, I saw the last preview of 20th CENTURY. I walked in thinking Kahn (along with Carol Burnett) was the funniest woman on the planet and I was shocked by the show: Kahn walked through it so listlessly, the show didn't even make sense. She wasn't energetic enough to make the opera parody clear: what I got instead was an Art Deco set that seemed suited to Porter or Gershwin, but was instead paired with pseudo-operetta music and repetitive lyrics.

In retrospect, I assume Kahn was saving herself for opening night, but when I saw her, she made the entire show look like a mess!

When I went back (because somebody was visiting and it was one of the few "big musicals" running at the time), Judy Kaye was a revelation! If she wasn't as naturally gifted a comedian as Kahn (and who was?), Kaye's sheer joy and exuberance turned the entire show around. Suddenly, I got that we were making fun of over-the-top opera characters (even though Kaye herself did not seem over-the-top) and the lyrics were meant to parody English translations of Italian opera. And like a rising tide that floats all boats, Kaye allowed Cullum and Kline to elevate their performances as well.

One of the most remarkable transformations I've ever seen in the theater. I went back every month or two for the rest of the run.

(P.S. to Gypsy9: I don't disagree with you about the score. I don't think it is the best work of anyone involved. But the show as a whole became a glorious romp when the casting was fixed.)

***

If Hal Prince REALLY confused Kahn and Peters, would he admit it? How would Joanna Merlin let that happen? Isn't it more likely he meant he thought he was going to get a performance like Peters would have given, but got Kahn and her stage fright instead? Or does he somehow think that claiming he confused two already well-known actresses is less embarrassing than the mistake he actually made with Kahn?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 3:07pm

It's not widely known, but when Patti Lupone berated that photographer during Gypsy, she actually yelled: "Who does Hal Prince think you ARE???"

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 3:36pm

Hal used Joanna Gleason for casting instead of Joanna Merlin, by mistake.

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 6:19pm

JoeKv99: Imogene Coca got her start in early television, appearing as the co-star with the great Sid Ceasar on the live 90 minute YOUR SHOW OF SHOWS on NBC from the late 1940's into the early 1950's. Imogene Coca was eccentric back then and she was a fine choice to play an eccentric in ON THE 20TH CENTURY, wanting everyone to repent.

Incidentally, I am sorry that I blasted a show that obviously has meant a lot to you. I'm glad you enjoyed Imogene Coca; I cannot think of any other show she was in.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 7:51pm

My two cents: I had a friend who was in the chorus of ON THE TWENTIETH CENTURY and he believed Kahn got screwed. He had nothing but nice things to say about her.

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 8:23pm

I love the story John Cullum told on Sirius radio a year ago about the show.

He said during the out of town tryouts Ms. Kahn missed a performance and Judy Kaye went on. The next day Madeline asked how Judy did. John Cullums answer was "She knows the lines".

A week later Madeline was out again. The next day she asked the same question and Mr. Cullum responded "She knows the blocking".

A couple weeks later she was out yet again. Once more the next day Madeline asked how Judy did. John Cullums answer was "If I were you, I would NEVER miss another performance."

Judy Kaye was THAT GOOD.


I saw the show shortly after Judy Kaye took over. I was so upset that I was going to miss Madeline Kahn. By the end of her first number, I was in love with Judy Kaye. She is still one of my favorite performers.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 8:25pm

It isn't necessarily either or. Madeline Kahn may have been one of those genius film actors who instinctively rebels against doing the same thing over and over, eight times per week. The same was said of Marlon Brando, that his Stanley in STREETCAR would change your life--IF you saw him during the one show per week when he was really inspired. Barbra Streisand herself has said she doesn't care for the repetition of Broadway and William Goldman compared her Fannie Brice toward the end of her run to a bad Jerry Lewis impersonation.

Unfortunately, Oscar and Lily have to carry 20th CENTURY; there really isn't much room for "off" nights. If Cullum and Kaye aren't comics on the level of a Kahn, Lahr or Mostel, they are great singing stars. I've seen both of them countless times over 46 years with never a dull performance from either one of them. What's more, they are both fine actors who play character, and the characters in 20th CENTURY are funny enough without unique comic gifts.

So it seems perfectly possible to me that Kahn was ill-suited to carry a long run of a major musical, genius though I believe her to have been. And at the same time, Prince didn't know what to do with the star he hired or how to help her and resorted to shouting in frustration. Not fair to Kahn, not really fair to Prince either (but he made the decision and has nobody else to blame). Big break for Judy Kaye.

***

JUDY KAYE TAUGHT ME ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT LESSONS I've ever learned in the theater: that it isn't enough to be highly skilled if you give the audience the impression you don't really want to be there. Not a bad lesson for real life, actually.

***

BTW, I've already admitted my bias in favor of Judy Kaye's performances. But I had a personal encounter with her that only confirmed my affection. My now-husband and I saw her from a front table when she did her club act shortly after CENTURY closed. Apparently, we were enthusiastic in response, because she finished the show, stepped off the stage and pulled a chair up to our table. She sat with us, ordered a round of drinks and then spent the next hour and then some chatting, mostly asking us about our lives. Frankly, we would have rather talked about her, but she insisted on behaving like a genuine human being. Very classy lady and a monster talent, regardless of what a few members of the 20th CENTURY ensemble may have thought of her performance. (Of course it isn't possible they were jealous of someone who stepped out of the ensemble and became a Broadway star.)



Updated On: 3/12/12 at 08:25 PM

[goldenboy]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 8:25pm

I saw Madeline Kahn and she gave 110 percent at the performance I saw.
She WAS the reason to see it.
It just wasn't as funny and did not work as well with Kaye just a few weeks later.

I find it hard to believe she held back. I saw Kahn as Amalia in She Loves Me at City Center and she was again a singing and comic revelation giving 110 percent.

I'm sure she never held back with Mel Brooks because Mel Brooks thought she was Betty Hutton.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 8:35pm

goldenboy, I know I said Kahn might have been saving herself during the final preview that I saw, but that was just speculation on my part.

I think it's more a case that some actors, incredibly gifted ones at that, simply need lightening to strike to bring out their best performance. And lighting just doesn't strike with any regularity.

Such actors often find their home in film, where a director can keep doing additional takes until he gets an inspired one.

If you saw a great performance from Kahn in 20th CENTURY, I envy you. I'm sure she was brilliant.

[sondheimfan2]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 8:40pm

I feel like we had this conversation already. Oh, wait. We did.
Oh Madeline

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 9:24pm

"And lighting just doesn't strike with any regularity."

Bad metaphor. There are 44 lightning flashes per second on earth.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 9:49pm

I saw both Actresses and Kahn was vastly superior IMO.
And 20th did not make a star of Kaye, she has become a well respected dependable character actress, not a Star (like Kahn).

Updated On: 3/12/12 at 09:49 PM

[chrisampm2]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 10:42pm

Kahn also had a very distinctive style, which some people had a hard time getting. She was never a high energy performer. And when she was nervous or uncomfortable, she often became just a few degrees more recessive which could make all the difference. Her performance in the Anyone Can Whistle concert is an example. Judy Kaye is fabulously talented, but when Kahn was in the zone there was nobody like her ever. She sustained a good run in The Sisters Rosensweig perhaps because the character and production was so perfectly tuned to her frequency.

[Kad]

Posted: 3/12/12 at 11:05pm

"Well, she's not so big nowadays"

Debatable. She may no longer be with us, but I am certain a hell of a lot more people know her name over Kaye's.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 3/13/12 at 6:12am

"And lighting just doesn't strike with any regularity."

Bad metaphor. There are 44 lightning flashes per second on earth.

I stand corrected, namo. I should have said "in one theater". Thanks. LOL.

***

Madeline Kahn was a movie star! Well, okay, a character actress-movie star, but she was nominated for Academy Awards twice. Of course, she was a bigger name than a theater personage like Judy Kaye.

[followspot]

Posted: 3/13/12 at 10:02am

Re: "You don't expect me to do that every night, do you?"

I always thought that was what Ethel Merman said to Ernest Borgnine the morning after their wedding night.