shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway- Page 2
shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
#25re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 12:44am
"The Phantom of the Opera/Cats/Les Miserables (ushered in the synth-rock opera era, also noteworthy for concentrating on the show itself and not about who was in the cast, started the advertising movement where the logo was most important)"
Actually Hal Prince had LONG before worked from the philosophy that THE SHOW was the star... not the actor/s involved.
WEST SIDE STORY wasn't about Larry Kert or Carol Lawrence
CABARET wasn't about Jill Hayworth
and FIDDLER ON THE ROOF survived well after Mostel left.
Also, the importance of logo was only a facet of the marketing revolution. How those shows changed MERCHANDISING was also astonishing.. they slapped those logos on everything from mugs to suppositories!
They had people lining up to PAY to advertise the show.
Those Cameron Macintosh shows aimed at a GLOBAL audience... and got 'em! That is why I too believe they actually the changed the face of Broadway.
What great ones do the less will prattle of
Updated On: 11/24/08 at 12:44 AM
#26re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 12:53am
""The Phantom of the Opera/Cats/Les Miserables (ushered in the synth-rock opera era, also noteworthy for concentrating on the show itself and not about who was in the cast, started the advertising movement where the logo was most important)" "
Would you agree that the show that possibly pioneered that era was Jesus Christ Superstar?
"Smart! And into all those exotic mystiques -- The Kama Sutra and Chinese techniques. I hear she knows more than seventy-five. Call me tomorrow if you're still alive!"
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#27re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 1:02am
How will 13 CHANGE or impact anything? Whether some of its actors will go on to other things is yet to be seen....and still that doesn't mean they will affect anything. I'm sure some of them will get other jobs at some point in their careers...but I wouldn't be suprised if some of them decide the heartbreak of theater is not worth it.
I doubt you can say it made ANY sort of real impact since so few people actaully saw it.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/31/69
#28re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 1:05ami hate to go all "old school" on this thread but I think we gotta give a big prize to "Porgy & Bess." Then, I'd say (for good or bad, depending on what you dig) "Oklahoma," "Rent," "Cats," "Company," "Hair," "West Side Story," "Showboat," "Cradle Will Rock," "A Chorus Line," "Cabaret." There are many more for various reasons, but I believe those are some of the biggies.
#29re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 1:08am
13 did change broadway by being the first cast of all teens, YOUNG teens, 13 age range... even the band
obviously that has made history, whether you like the show or not
#30re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 1:17am
PianoLin, being a pioneer does not mean they changed Broadway. And making history does not mean it changed Broadway either. It has yet to be seen if 13 really did influence anything, considering it's abysmal performance I don't think many shows will be following suite.
Apparently "Allegro" was highly influential, led to the smooth transitions of sets etc.. (According to that Sondheim+Frank Rich interview).
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
#31re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 1:27am
oh but you wait.. in due time you will see its effects... more shows geared towards tweens, younger casts... just in due time
and by making history, i do think that changes broadway
#32re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 1:59am
It will only change Broadway if any other shows follow suit. If it goes by in a blip and no other shows follow its lead? Then it hasn't changed Broadway.
Can someone actually tell me HOW Wicked has changed Broadway? I'm especially curious how Wicked can be on somebody's list, and then they also say that Urinetown and Avenue Q haven't been around long enough to gauge their impact, when Urinetown is older and Avenue Q the same age.
But really, I don't see what Wicked has done or achieved that hasn't been done before. Popular does not equal influential.
#33re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 2:04am
Taryn, I agree with you 100%
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#34re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 2:13am
That doesn't mean it CHANGED b'way. Just because it was the first to do something doesn't make a change.
To make a change, it affects the way things are done BECAUSE of it. It needs to make an IMPACT that makes a difference. I doubt that this will.
I don't like or dislike it. I have no interest in it. I wasn't trying to "dis" it in any sense....just don't know how it CHANGED anything.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#35re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 2:27am
I don't think Wicked has changed the face of Broadway. Its been hugely successful, obviously, but through no real innovation. It did however build on the Disney style of producing, the musical as a product, almost like a theme park.
Perhaps stylistically, Mamma Mia? Was it the first musical to use pop songs and intertwine them with a story unrelated to the original artist?
Also, which was the first musical to be based on a film, as opposed to the other way around?
"I will join this conversation on the proviso that we stop bitching about people. Wigs, dresses, bust sizes, penises, nightclubs and bloody Kylie!" - Bernadette, Priscilla Queen of the Desert the Musical
blaxx
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/28/05
#36re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 3:36amBKLYN: The Musical. It raised the bar for musicals to suck more than ever.
Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/31/69
#37re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 4:05am
""The Phantom of the Opera/Cats/Les Miserables (ushered in the synth-rock opera era, also noteworthy for concentrating on the show itself and not about who was in the cast, started the advertising movement where the logo was most important)" "
Would you agree that the show that possibly pioneered that era was Jesus Christ Superstar? "
I'm not sure I would... It was a pretty different situation--JCS never had a worldwide *standard* iconic production like those shows did, no major logo, was successful but was more a phenomenon as a record/series of concerts than the actual show, etc... However Evita, was a more obvious precurser to the Cameron McKintosh technique of megamusicals na dhow to market them for sure.
Re Golden Boy:
"Perhaps the inter-racial love story.... especially taboo between a Black man with Nordic blonde woman.
For some reason a white man with a black, mixed-race or Asian woman wasn't as off putting back then."
That's true--but really did it make enough of an impact to change much at all?
When I was younger i never understood that about interacial relationships--even when tv shows like soap operas started making interacial romances more common, it was seen as much safer to have the man be white and the woman the darker skinned--and this was the 80s into the 90s. But then again I don't really get a lot about racism :P
Zeitoujo
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/3/06
#38re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 8:22amA Chorus Line- best show. EVER!
"Those You've Known And Lost Still Walk Behind You"-Spring Awakening
#39re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 8:34amum, just wondering, How did BKLYN suck? it's such a good show
Yankeefan007
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/20/04
#40re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 9:03am
Q: How did BKLYN suck?
A: In every possible respect. The music was derivative, the story was inconsequential, the vocals were a screaming competition.
The only thing creative about the show was the costuming.
Wait. BKLYN DID have an impact on history. It's the first and only time where you can say "the costumes looked like garbage" and have it be a compliment!
dcl7777
Swing Joined: 5/4/06
#41re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 10:14amPromise,Promise:Its contemporary pop score had a huge influence on braodway musical's sound for a while,though not very long.Without this show,there wouldn't be Company,Seesaw,Applause and many other shows.
#42re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 11:35am
Agreed that Wicked doesn't make the cut. I think if it pre-dated Les Miz/Phantom/Cats it would be one thing, but it's just another in a line of successful spectacle musicals.
I also don't think that either JCS or Evita changed Broadway the way Les Miz/Phantom/Cats did. They were certainly precursors to those large shows but they didn't mark a definite "before" and "after" point the way those later shows did.
I'm wondering if someday we'll look back and see a famous flop as being in this category too. As in "after the failure of X no one was ever willing to make to make a musical of that sort again and thus an era passed away forever."
#43re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 11:39am
To answer Hest882:
13????
I think because of 13 there will never be a show with a cast (and band) solely of pre-pubescent children!
Updated On: 11/24/08 at 11:39 AM
#44re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 2:45pm
A Chorus Line - the first of its kind and at the time the concept was brilliant. Still is.
Les Miserables - I neednt say more.
:)
"You see, I told you so! There's lots of things I know. 'Ponine, she knows her way around."
#45re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 5:26pm
blaxx wins the thread
the end
You're reminding me of people you hear at the movies asking questions every ten seconds, "Who is that? Why is that guy walking down the street? Who's that lady coming up to him? Uh-oh, why did that car go by? Why is it so dark in this theater?" - FindingNamo on strummergirl
"If artists were machines, then I'm just a different kind of machine...I'd probably be a toaster. Actually, I'd be a toaster oven because they're more versatile. And I like making grilled cheese" -Regina Spektor
"That's, like, twelve shows! ...Or seven." -Crazy SA Fangirl
"They say that just being relaxed is the most important thing [in acting]. I take that to another level, I think kinda like yawning and...like being partially asleep onstage is also good, but whatever." - Sherie Rene Scott
"If artists were machines, then I'm just a different kind of machine...I'd probably be a toaster. Actually, I'd be a toaster oven because they're more versatile. And I like making grilled cheese" -Regina Spektor
"That's, like, twelve shows! ...Or seven." -Crazy SA Fangirl
"They say that just being relaxed is the most important thing [in acting]. I take that to another level, I think kinda like yawning and...like being partially asleep onstage is also good, but whatever." - Sherie Rene Scott
wickedrentq
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/6/04
#46re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 5:32pm
I proudly reiterate that...I can't even remember the year, but a couple of years ago, WEST SIDE STORY was voted by playbill readers as the most influential musical of all time 
"If there was a Mount Rushmore for Broadway scores, "West Side Story" would be front and center. It snaps, it crackles it pops! It surges with a roar, its energy and sheer life undiminished by the years" - NYPost reviewer Elisabeth Vincentelli
#47re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 5:38pmIm shocked nobody has said Angels in America, Ragtime and Caroline or Change. I think all 3 changed the face of broadway.
<------ Me and my friends with patti Lupone at my friends afterparty for her concert with audra mcdonald during the summer of 2007.
"I am sorry but it is an unjust world and virtue is only triumphant in theatricle performances" The Mikado
"I am sorry but it is an unjust world and virtue is only triumphant in theatricle performances" The Mikado
#48re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 7:04pm
Ragtime and Caroline or Change were good shows, but didn't change a thing.
Show Boat
The Cradle Will Rock
Oklahoma
Porgy and Bess
West Side Story
Bye Bye Birdie
Hair
Company
Jesus Christ Superstar
Ain't Misbehavin'
Cats
Les Miserables
Rent
Chicago (revival)
Beauty and the Beast
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#49re: shows that have ACTUALLY changed the face of broadway
Posted: 11/24/08 at 7:07pm
RENT
A Chorus Line
Les Miserables
Company
Any Fosse show
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