Why do we "turn" on the most popular shows?- Page 2

[TGIF]

Posted: 3/8/05 at 5:16pm

POPULAR doesn't always equal GOOD.

Sometimes it does, but not always. Why should people be forced to like something because everyone else does?

[MaTakeALookAtMe]

Posted: 3/8/05 at 5:20pm

It's because people will not shut up about them. Fine...they're great, but they're not the only shows ever produced. And, of course, popular does not always mean best.

[UptownGirl]

Posted: 3/8/05 at 5:24pm

Basically what everyone else has been saying...

It's not that we stop loving the show because of the fans, but I know especially with BKLYN, I started to resent the show and not ever want to talk about it because the fans could be incredibly annoying. Stuff like "OmG iT iZ lYk tHe BeSt ShoW eVaHhH!!!11one" make me never, EVER want to see that show again.

Hope I'm not TOO confusing, lol.

[catstagestud]

Posted: 3/8/05 at 5:33pm

Wildcat I think you're missing out on not seeing The Lion King. I'll admitt I'm a snob when it comes to theatre but I apprecitaed the artistic approach of the show. I felt there to be much more to the show than just puppets that are on people's heads. Some of the music that was added is wonderful; some not. But I personally think it's worth your time and money. I haven't seen Wicked, Rent, or The Producers so I have no idea on the whole backlashing thing. If a show is good in your opinion that should be enough for you.

[CurtainUp]

Posted: 3/8/05 at 5:36pm

Aren't we allowed to just...not like popular shows? I am a bit of a theatre snob, but I can appreciate fluff theatre (Hairspray, etc) as well as the next person. I loved Cats when I saw it, it just doesn't appeal to me now.

[wildcat]

Posted: 3/8/05 at 5:53pm

Stagestud, I can deny you nothing. I shall begin busking on the streets to raise the $100 right now.

[sharkgirl100]

Posted: 3/8/05 at 5:56pm

ditto Curtain.

[JMVR]

Posted: 3/8/05 at 7:03pm

I think it also has to do with the fact that when a very anticipated show opens and we like it, it very easy to get saturated easily -- we see it many times in a short period of time, we listen to the CD time and again (and then again) until we get sick of it. Then everyone else who is not a dedicated fan sees the show over the next few years and talk about it and we're already so sick of it that we "turn" on it and look instead for the new show in town to obsess with for a while.

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 3/8/05 at 7:32pm

I'd like to add to Rath's excellent reasoning: I think this sort of behavior is similar to behavior seen in preteen/teenage girls (and before I get shredded, not in ALL girls this age).
Take a class of seventh-graders, for example. In a class of about 30 kids, there is always at least one girl who is confident and assertive and doing pretty well for herself, and this drives some of the other girls up the wall. They feel something akin to "How dare she be so popular and confident??"
I can't quite explain it, but there's something about a girl who seems to be happy and popular almost effortlessly and it just makes some girls...snarl. The ladies here know what I'm talking about, right?
So, in an effort to feel better about themselves, the other girls start spreading rumors about this girl, tripping her, basically doing whatever it takes to "bring her down."
I know this isn't exactly the same as with people dissing Broadway shows since, unless you're a theater critic, you have virtually no sway over a show's fate, but the behavior is certainly similar, don't you think?

[TGIF]

Posted: 3/8/05 at 7:38pm

Technically your example doesn't work. The "confident" girl is the show, so the other girls would therefore be the other less popular show. Its not the other shows that hate it.

[Becky]

Posted: 3/8/05 at 8:20pm

ashley0139, that's the stupidest reasoning I have ever heard.

Unfortunately, there is some truth to ashley's statement about the fans turning people off Wicked. When something creates such a flow of...well...enthusiastic fans (to be nice), it can be obnoxious to some people. When a high percentage of the threads on this site are "OMG Wicked is the best!!!" posts? It is a little over the top. The obvious reaction is "damn, it's not *that* good." Of course there are people that wouldn't care for the show even if it wasn't for the fans, but it does influence how some people feel about the show. It's inevitable.

There was an entire thread full of people admitting to not caring for Idina simply because of the crazy fans and how they have put her on this pedestal. Is it fair or justified criticism of the performer? No. Does it happen? Definitely.

Someone also got it right when they said there is always a backlash on shows that are popular and receive a lot of praise. I saw the Wicked backlash coming a mile away. It was so predictable. I usually notice it coming from people who believe that their *opinion* of a show should be documented as fact - and they can't get over the fact that a show they despise is liked by so many. They act as if the people that like the show have no taste or can't recognize good theater, which is such a pompous view.
Updated On: 3/8/05 at 08:20 PM

[boatsintheghetto]

Posted: 3/8/05 at 8:31pm

haha im like that with my friends all the time. I get into a musical, i get them hooked, and by the time they learn all the words, i'm on to a new one and im like oh well thats like so last week...haha i know its mean,but ilike being on top of things.

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 3/8/05 at 8:35pm

Rath - late comment

Remember, it is not that we are snobs - we are just better.

[WhiteRabbit]

Posted: 3/8/05 at 8:54pm

"I usually notice it coming from people who believe that their *opinion* of a show should be documented as fact - and they can't get over the fact that a show they despise is liked by so many. They act as if the people that like the show have no taste or can't recognize good theater, which is such a pompous view."

I'm actually gonna have to agree with Becky on that. Alot of the backlash on these boards at least is like that. The over enthusiastic fans do get annoying but that in no way makes a show like Wicked any better or worse. As for shows like Phantom and Cats, I don't think that people turn on them, they just kinda get tired of it since its been around so long and they've seen it so much, and they miscontrue this as the show being bad, but that is different from the Wicked "haters" who disliked the show from the start.
Also, it should be taken into account that many people prefer a certain writers style. A large number of people like Sondheim, there are also those who like ALW, and so on. The big Sondheim fans may not like a show like Wicked cause it is different from Sondheim shows, etc. I'm not saying any of this is fact, but it is definitely a possibility.

[Dreamcatcher]

Posted: 3/8/05 at 11:17pm

My guess would be that people don't so much hate the show, they just get annoyed with the tons of screaming fans that go with it. I myself love Wicked to death and was a bit perplexed as to why people seem to hate the show (still am perplexed) but my best guess would be because, as with any popular show, it is bound to be followed by tons of fans who dont always behave in the most rational or mature manner.

[bjivie2]

Posted: 3/8/05 at 11:30pm

It's just a factor of who is on these boards. The people on these boards are not your typical theatre-goer. If they all were, we'd be talking about Wicked and how the Beast transforms in Beauty and the Beast. (wait...)

It's simply a matter of the people on this board having a different taste than the general public. For the most part, we on the board like things that are more deeply theatrical, well-written and meaningful. To us, shows like Phantom, Cats and even Wicked, now, are fluff with no meaning, and even lacking in some basic good qualities of a Broadway musical (solid book, good lyrics, etc.). Everyone on here sees so much that they CAN afford to not like these big shows, because they know of so many other shows that float their boat better.

I personally dislike all three of those shows, to different degrees. Wicked is fun, Phantom can be thrilling, and Cats is stupid. But the next person who comes along will have a completely different opinion.

[Princeton78]

Posted: 3/8/05 at 11:44pm

I think the more shows you see, the broader your appreciation grows for different types of theatre. I'm sure those of us who dislike 'popular' shows like CATS and WICKED can see some value in it somewhere, but we feel more satisfied by a work that is perhaps less mainstream. If this makes me uppity, so be it. It wouldn't be the first time i've been called a snob.

[WiCkEd BaCcHaE]

Posted: 3/8/05 at 11:57pm

I think the reason many get tired and fed up with shows like Wicked and Les Miz and Phantom could be frustration with the lack of knowledge about other shows that average person has when he/she claims to be a fan of musical theatre. Many of us have prided ourselves in studying musical theatre for many years and so we love to talk about and debate about more hard core music like Weill and Comden & Green; stuff that's inaccessible to the MTV crowd. And so when musicals like Aida and Hairspray come around (or anything that appeals to broad pop-crazy masses) and suddenly all these people claim to love musical theatre but really only know about the stuff thats been around for the past ten some-odd years and refuse to dig deeper to find the good stuff, it becomes nothing short of exasperating to those who really know the ropes.

I don't think that things like Phantom and Wicked are so bad; they can be a lot of fun and they can help introduce more people to this wonderful art form. However, it's when those fans have no desire to learn about musical theatre roots that it begins get rediculous. Go do your research!!!

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 3/9/05 at 12:45am

Having popular shows like WICKED and RENT that kids can relate to is good because that keeps the theater alive. If we had a bunch of "artsy" musicals that younger kids and teenagers weren't interested in, then the whole idea of theater would disappear. And to say that the only reason people put RENT on the stage was to make money is insane. RENT is the definition of art. I think Larson briliantly interweaved art and popular music. I may not love the Producers because the music sucks or like Phantom because it bores me doesnt mean i hate them. I'm glad they're there because it keeps people talking about the theater and maybe one day Broadway will be just as big as it was in the 1900s. Maybe.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 3/9/05 at 1:04am

I don't think overzealous fans are a serious problem. A mnor irritant, perhaps. Fans can do more to support their favourites by stating clearly what they liked and why. Just stating over and over that SHOW X is "the greatest show ever" is suspect. (English 101: SUPPORT your thesis!)

NO show is the greatest ever. All shows have strengths and weaknesses. It doesn't diminish anyone's enjoyment to document areas where a good show could be better.

I am impressed with the number of people here who try to see every new musical that opens, and so many people here were introduced to the theatre-going tradition as kids being taken to see BEAUTY AND THE BEAST or CATS.

Popularity is no longer an index of quality, although it is not automatically proof of a poor quality show. CATS ran 18 years because it was big with tourists - even people who didn't speak/understand English well could enjoy the show.

The downside of this is that producers are now looking for more tourist attraction shows. Theatre owners book shows based on familiar movies or revivals of familiar titles. Quality writing is sacfriced for spectacular scenic effects. Interesting, ground breaking new musicals are forced off-Broadway or into regional theatres.

This can make true theatre fans resentful, but all the resentment cannot stop a popular show, and enthusiasm cannot save a show that is not popular.

********

Cast albums are NOT "soundtracks." Live theatre does not use a soundtrack. If it did, it wouldn't be live theatre!

[Dreamcatcher]

Posted: 3/9/05 at 1:27am

I dont quite understand why some people dislike a show just because of the fans. I know thats not always the case but when it is, it just seems a little silly. I mean why let a couple teenage strangers ruin a perfectly good show? I still love Wicked for example, despite all the Idina-holics out there who scream like mad when they see her. They aren't bothering ME so why should I let them ruin my experience.

[etoile]

Posted: 3/9/05 at 2:34am

Jiminy Cricket, where did this conjecture come from? Why does anyone presume that "we" speaks for me? Where is the proof that "we" have in fact turned on the most popular shows? And how does one define popular? What constitutes turning? And because someone phrases a question as a statement of fact does that make it so?

[shira467]

Posted: 3/9/05 at 4:12am

I think I agree with Rath, for the most part. Ah, the terror I experienced as a 7th grader, listening to "Jekyll & Hyde" instead of Sublime (which I happen to enjoy now, years later).

Now, I haven't turned on too many shows. As much as I am self-professed theater elitist and snob, I still think Wicked is a good show. Now, I saw Wicked 5 times, have the program, poster, etc... For a while, my computer was bookmarked with all the Idina/Kristin sites, and my away messages were all Wicked-related. Of course, I also saw almost everything else on Broadway, so I wasn't being completely saturated.

Several months later, I'm glad I was able to step back and see it's flaws. But I don't say it's bad. Because it's not - to me, anyway.

Anyhow - I think what drives me up a wall, and so many others, is that the current newcomers to theater, those who are being drawn in by Wicked and BKLYN, they haven't seen anything else. And there seems to be no interest in learning about other musical theatre. When asked if they'd heard "Les Miserables", they literally have NO idea what that is. "Miss Saigon" means nothing. And certainly, the only reason they may have heard of "Cabaret" was because the Wizard in Wicked won an Academy Award for the movie... Now of course, I am generalizing, and this does NOT apply to all.

When I started becoming a serious theater junkie, I did my research. I need to know what musical theatre was to appreciate what is.

I won't turn on a show because it's popular. But my interest may dim over time. I try to find redeeming qualities in all shows, even BKLYN.

The people who do turn on shows? I'll be they either saw the flaws when they first saw the show, or they do now. But if someone really liked Wicked, for example, it is doubtful that they will now be the ones posting "I HATE this show". But if they are those that thought Wicked was an okay show, but overly flawed, and they now state they hate Wicked...well, I would too, if I didn't like a show and was then bombarded by, well, Wizomania.

So, yeah. That's my opinion...

[Eastwickian]

Posted: 3/9/05 at 5:11am

Maybe because most serious theatre fans are older (in their thirties or above), and are seeing the shows that they loved above all others being replaced in popularity by things like Bklyn and Wicked which they don't necessarily 'get'. This obviously makes them feel irritated.
And as someone else mentioned, the fact that some of these younger fans are a) so vocally rabid, and b) ignorant of other shows besides their fixation, gives the older fans a sense of superiority which manifests itself in the dismissal of anything 'popular'

Disclaimer: I want to stress that this is only an idea, and realise that this a sweeping generalisation which probably doesn't apply to all. So don't have too much of a go at me Updated On: 3/9/05 at 05:11 AM

[LetMeLeave]

Posted: 3/9/05 at 5:24am

holy potatoes you kids write alot.

The reason why we turn on shows is simply:
us > fifty feet of crap > everyone else.