KPOP Reviews- Page 5

[ACL2006]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 2:07pm

No such thing as bad press, correct? Seems like more people are aware of this show now due to Green's review and forthcoming backlash. Let's see if it actually does anything for sales.

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 2:09pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "Green also knows his audience: the reader, not the artist; considering the NYC population is less than 11% Asian, Green is writing for a mostly non-Asian theatergoing bloc."

A terrible take, especially as Green usually tries to contextualize his reviews in the larger history of theater or understanding of a genre. Why is it relevant to talk about commedia dell'arte or British kitchen sink plays or to remark on trends in dementia plays or family dramas in recent seasons but not show any similar respect to the type of storytelling advanced by KPOP? Also, there was a much higher proportion of Asian audience members when I saw the show. 

I don't think only "target audiences" should review shows but I found that all the female critics who got Only Gold were able to speak about it in a different way that made me wish for a greater diversity among critics for the big ticket shows to reflect different perspectives. There should be more voices in theater criticism and if there are consistent issues with an outlet, that's something worth addressing rather than suggesting that there's value in critics like Green telling white audiences that they should stay away from certain shows. I wasn't particularly fired up about the "squint-inducing" comment but the responses here to Asian artists speaking up for themselves are very disappointing. I'm not even defending my new favorite show... I thought it was just fine and mostly carried by the performances. 

[Kad]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 2:43pm

I would put more stock in the producers speaking out if the producing and creative teams weren't, yknow, overwhelmingly not Asian. This isn't a scrappy little production by a collective of Asian artists. It's a Broadway production. We have to stop thinking of things on Broadway as underdogs. They're not. They're multi-million dollar businesses.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 4:31pm

It's crucial for critics from all types of backgrounds to review shows. That's what makes criticism interesting. A person does not have to like the genre of music to like the show. The show has to work across the board, which this show evidently doesn't. Rap served Hamilton and In The Heights well, was competently written, and was liked by a large amount of people with different tastes; the same cannot be said for Holler If Ya Hear Me or Black No More. There are people who don't love Springsteen but liked what he did with Springsteen on Broadway. Etc.

And for editors to assign critics based on a pre-judgement of the piece, that's not good for the artform or the review.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 5:16pm

Kad said: "I would put more stock in the producers speaking out if the producing and creative teams weren't, yknow, overwhelmingly not Asian. This isn't a scrappy little production by a collective of Asian artists. It's a Broadway production. We have to stop thinking of things on Broadway as underdogs. They're not. They're multi-million dollar businesses."

I am not sure I get how your first sentence relates to the rest of the post (feel free to elaborate if you want), but the point I want to make is that while I agree that the (reactive and fairly obviously publicist-scripted) letter has a disingenuous feel to it, the act of writing a letter like this is still educational and a part of the process of getting white people to think about what they think and what they say and do on the basis of those thoughts. There are far too many troubling posts on this board right now reflecting embedded racism, institutional racism, and even perhaps premeditated racism. I think the signatories to the letter (who I don't think reflect any of those labels) have learned something in this process and I also hope others have as well. 

[karen24]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 5:20pm

Here’s a gift link to Green’s review:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/27/theater/kpop-review-broadway.html?unlocked_article_code=L3oK1D3UDdfcI_zBQxWdTESQ9nguXukaWg27GbmzIUGdZu6rZ5zyo-dLk8hJt8lRtSSpzftK9RLQDYxLtl1rt791i6XEwdbKktvkOpGtC_yq16aS85nLeVeub5EzNDC7OXc-_KHK-xq_l7HSK8GnEHPtE2UbG0fxNnf5a8XOeIZh3DHB1da0sQPbkWPrzlApAFJRNp7a24ODG3LwM1jZRqBPsvzwSRIJzzTEDlUI5BoFpfWpe8OvKenAIirAT-Z1WdRa1iQFsyph0j22sRBwc6JrHGnp6xLkXD1gTCNIVH54Bqyb5FTPN5QxnG97i3ujHcQl3ESuNzvRcuZg&smid=share-url

 

 

[BroadwayNYC2]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 5:30pm

“ We have to stop thinking of things on Broadway as underdogs. They're not. They're multi-million dollar businesses.”

 

Very true and very well worded. 

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 6:44pm

I will never understand people who don't believe when someone says something is wrong. This is why we still have people remaining silent about so many issues, because people don't believe women, victims, people in marginalized communities, etc. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt for one moment and agree that there was a triggering and offensive phrase used in a review from a major publication viewed by millions of people; should the company have stayed silent and not addressed it?

To the people saying the white producers are using this as a marketing ploy, how should the producers be allies for their mostly Asian company? Should they not use their white privilege to protect their company from harmful statements, statements that hurt the production and perpetuate fear? What solutions do you have?

When anti-Asian crimes are STILL HAPPENING in NYC (I read a story last night about a subway attack with racial slurs used), people need to speak out in support of the communities that are affected. It's unfortunate this always seems to happen when it comes to the AAPI community. I remember people defending the phrase "chink in the armor" when it was used in an article about Jeremy Lin, saying it is a real phrase people use. "Squint," "slant," etc. are also real words that people say in everyday life, but it should just not be used to describe Asian people, their work, shouldn't be used anywhere near them because they are triggering words, words that are actually still used today to devalue them. I don't know why this has to be over-explained. It is not a hard concept to grasp. And the company of this show repeatedly said they are not speaking out about Jesse Green's negative review; they're talking about the language used and the tone of his writing, which are separate from his opinion of the piece itself.

There are some really ugly posts here with far too many likes attached to them. Why not for once open up your mind, listen to what a minority group is saying, and be a human being and ally? Honestly, this is beyond a mere review of a show, and people who don't see that don't understand the issue at hand.

But also, why aren't there more critics, creatives, and producers of color? Another issue for another day.

[ElephantLoveMedley]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 8:21pm

HeyMrMusic said: "Should they not use their white privilege to protect their company from harmful statements, statements that hurt the production and perpetuate fear?"

Harmful statements that hurt and perpetuate fear? He literally described lighting design that he found to be overly bright. The pearl-clutching and melodrama here is wayyy over the top.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 8:46pm

There is sadly no reasoning with people with closed minds. You are not seeing the forest for the trees.

Calling out coded language is melodramatic? Good to know.

Updated On: 12/3/22 at 08:46 PM

[ElephantLoveMedley]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 9:13pm

HeyMrMusic said: "Calling out coded language is melodramatic? Good to know."

Hmm, still not understanding how a word used to describe how Jesse Green physically responded to intense lighting design—however poor the word choice might have been—is "coded language.”

Code for...what exactly? 

Calling out gratuitous word policing is the opposite of being close-minded, by the way.

[johnnybravo]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 9:26pm

Kad said: "I would put more stock in the producers speaking out if the producing and creative teams weren't, yknow, overwhelmingly not Asian. This isn't a scrappy little production by a collective of Asian artists. It's a Broadway production. We have to stop thinking of things on Broadway as underdogs. They're not. They're multi-million dollar businesses."

Things on Broadway are underdogs despite being multi-million dollar businesses, especially shows like KPOP that aren't adapted from already established IP. Most shows close without making a profit. Most people who invest in a show lose their investment. 

[Wick3]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 9:49pm

I recall the flashlight used towards the audience in MACBETH was really bright it hurt my eyes. Same for those headlights in HADESTOWN. I don’t think the critics mentioned those in their reviews.

[NoItAll]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 9:49pm

johnnybravo said:… Most shows close without making a profit. Most people who invest in a show lose their investment."

Most people who invest in a Broadway show can afford to lose their investment in one show,, especially when their concern is long-term over many shows. Cry me a river.

 

[Wick3]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 9:58pm

I agree with Noitall.

I think seasoned Broadway investors tend to reinvest a portion of the profits they’ve made in successful shows for new shows on Broadway.

If you’re an investor of Wicked or Hamilton from the very beginning, you can probably “afford” to reinvest a portion of those profits to new Broadway shows and if those shows fail, it really won’t affect your net worth that much.

[NoItAll]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 10:39pm

HeyMrMusic said: "When anti-Asian crimes are STILL HAPPENING in NYC (I read a story last night about a subway attack with racial slurs used), people need to speak out in support of the communities that are affected.”

Yes, yes, all you Broadway-loving, entitled White people of NYC, speak out against ALL those who commit anti-Asian crimes, speak out against ALL those who would discriminate against low-income Asians applying to Stuyvesant and Bronx Science. Use your influence. I can’t wait.

 

[DrMonicaDeMoneco]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 10:49pm

ElephantLoveMedley said: "HeyMrMusic said: "Calling out coded language is melodramatic? Good to know."

Hmm, still not understanding how a word used to describe how Jesse Green physically responded to intense lighting design—however poor the word choice might have been—is "coded language.”

Code for...what exactly?

Calling out gratuitous word policing is the opposite of being close-minded, by the way."

Agreed.

I think the producers response to the review is just another attempt, like the cast, to drum up ticket sales to a show that may or may not be good, but isn’t selling well.  

Jesse’s review isn’t racist, there is no coded language, this is not a teachable moment, a dear white people moment, a whatever.

He didn’t care for the show. Get over it- actors, producers. 

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 11:15pm

I think telling people what they’re allowed to be offended and triggered by is effective. Telling people to get over visceral feelings is effective. Silencing a group of people who are rarely heard from is effective. Let’s all root for the gatekeeper.

I saw that Tara Rubin Casting, who cast KPOP, is sharing the producers’ statement via social media. Glad they are standing up for their actors in allyship.

[MemorableUserName]

Posted: 12/3/22 at 11:54pm

HeyMrMusic said: "I saw that Tara Rubin Casting, who castKPOP, is sharing the producers’ statement via social media. Glad they are standing up for their actors in allyship."

More likely allyship with the producers who hire them and on whose good side they may wish to remain for future business in the industry. Sharing the statement was no less performative and craven than the producers' own.

 

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 12/4/22 at 12:20am

I really want to know why this show has hit people’s buttons, haha. It’s such an easy show to root for. It’s not doing anyone harm and only means to bring joy and entertainment by showcasing an underrepresented community. Even if you didn’t like it, who cares? We should ridicule it because it’s not selling out every night? Its existence should be a welcome addition to Broadway. We’re really taking Jesse Green’s side? Lol okay.

Anyway, I’ll continue to defend it. The company has done nothing wrong in calling out something that they genuinely found offensive. It’s their right to do so. Talk to any Asian person and they will understand and sympathize and be upset. The silencing of their voices does no good. Your opposition is loudly heard. It’s something we deal with on a daily basis.

[Phillyguy]

Posted: 12/4/22 at 12:22am

As an Asian, I don’t really understand the outrage. 
 

Anything can be a trigger for anyone now. If the cast is offended, I support them speaking out. But it’s a bit of a stretch and condescending to suggest that the critics didn’t enjoy or understand the Kpop Musical because they are incapable or unwilling to fairly judge a show that doesn’t cater to a white and English speaking audience. 
 

Frankly that’s the main reason the show is failing. Who is the target audience supposed to be? The letter seems rather dismissive of the white, English-speaking audience that frequent the Broadway. I’m all for expanding the audience base, but I don’t see how alienating the traditional base is going to help it succeed. Perhaps less blame on racism, and more reflection of the book’s shortcomings. 

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 12/4/22 at 12:29am

To be fair, Phillyguy, they have only spoken out about one critic. They’ve acknowledged that the other (critical) reviews were fairly written. The show failing to reach an audience is another issue. I’m also in no way saying this is a perfect or even well-written show. I do think it’s a lot of fun, though, and the fans have a great time at time at the show. In fact, I believe I caught the show Jesse Green was at, and it was a very rambunctious audience.

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 12/4/22 at 12:52am

HeyMrMusic said: "I really want to know why this show has hit people’s buttons, haha. It’s such an easy show to root for. It’s not doing anyone harm and only means to bring joy and entertainment by showcasing an underrepresented community. Even if you didn’t like it, who cares? We should ridicule it because it’s not selling out every night? Its existence should be a welcome addition to Broadway. We’re really taking Jesse Green’s side? Lol okay."

We're really taking the side of a critic being lambasted as a racist just because we... dont think he is!? Lol okay!

I hope KPop keeps these people employed for a while. I hope it finds an audience. I hope the world comes around to the evil of tarring people as racists---and then using that accusation in a sad attempt to justify its own failings. "Even if you didnt like it.... who cares!?" says the guy talking about a critic whose SOLE job is to tell us that he didnt like it! The nerve!  

Truly embarrassing. 

 

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 12/4/22 at 12:52am

Wick3 said: "I recall the flashlight used towards the audience in MACBETH was really bright it hurt my eyes. Same for those headlights in HADESTOWN. I don’t think the critics mentioned those in their reviews."

This isn’t the mic drop you think it is. 

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 12/4/22 at 12:57am

HeyMrMusic said: "I really want to know why this show has hit people’s buttons, haha. It’s such an easy show to root for. It’s not doing anyone harm and only means to bring joy and entertainment by showcasing an underrepresented community. Even if you didn’t like it, who cares? We should ridicule it because it’s not selling out every night? Its existence should be a welcome addition to Broadway. We’re really taking Jesse Green’s side? Lol okay.

Anyway, I’ll continue to defend it. The company has done nothing wrong in calling out something that they genuinely found offensive. It’s their right to do so. Talk to any Asian person and they will understand and sympathize and be upset. The silencing of their voices does no good. Your opposition is loudly heard. It’s something we deal with on a daily basis."

I don’t think anyone is against the show at all. I think it’s more so that they’re trying to make something where there isn’t anything and that is ruffling feathers. Especially in this day and age, to make such a fuss over something that is a very big leap and stretch to make when there are actually harmful awful things happening today… it just feels disingenuous. At least to me. You can say it was coded and whatever but I just don’t think there’s any there there.