Pippin previews start tomorrow- Page 11

[HoldThatThought]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 12:00pm

lenstersf, LuminousBeing - I like your explanations as well.

Kelly2 - while I enjoyed Bay Jones' performance, I'm left wondering about Benanti. On that clip, when Schwartz was asked about her, he thought she was the perfect Catherine. Had she not been on that sitcom, who knows?

J52- I think that's a pretty accurate metaphor

Luminous, just saw your second long posting - well said, took the words out of my mouth with both postings! Thanks!

broadway guy - they do things with hoops, suspended ropes, poles, etc. It's done to complement the show, so while there are some outstanding moments, it blends nicely. Don't know how else to describe it w/o giving stuff away. Check out the link below, BWW interviews one of the circus performers.

interview with Orion Griffiths Updated On: 4/8/13 at 12:00 PM

[Blockhead24]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 3:07pm

Kelly, I'm just going to say it but I wonder, how much of your dislike of this production comes from the fact that it's going to beat your favorite show for best revival?

[Kelly2]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 3:17pm

Blockhead24, none at all. I've known Drood wouldn't win Best Revival ever since Pippin was announced. The production is much flashier, was very well reviewed, and Drood's closed. I love the show, but I'm not delusional about it. Hopefully they'll score a handful of nominations and acknowledgement for the more outstanding pieces of the revival, but realistically I don't see them taking many awards home.

I went in wanting to love it because I have a serious amount of worship for Patina Miller and Andrea Martin, but I have always felt cautious about it because Pippin as a show never really worked for me. I think I articulated my problems with the show and reasons for not being impressed in this thread fairly well.

Updated On: 4/8/13 at 03:17 PM

[MusicalTheatreGeek2]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 4:00pm

Cast Recording coming in June.

https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/PIPPIN-Cast-Album-in-the-Works-Ghostlight-to-Release-in-June-2013-20130408

Don't know whether to be happy it is coming, or sad that I have to wait until June to hear it!!!

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 4:02pm

"Will feature material from the show never previously recorded."

That better mean they're recording the dance music after "With You" or I'm gonna be pissed.

[ClydeBarrow]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 4:03pm

Definitely sad that it's not coming out until June. But hooray!!

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 4:25pm

I saw the show on Saturday afternoon, and although I liked everyone in the show and the direction as well, I just didn't like the show per se. I don't think it helped that I had a bunch of obnoxious theatre geeks behind me who apparently just did the show at school. They over-reacted to the proceedings throughout. And to their classmate who was sobbing at the end, STFU!!! It became all about her and her over the top reactions.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 5:26pm

Luminous--great post!

I completely agree with you (Minor spoilers but related to Fosse's original production)






I do think Fosse saw it as a metaphor for--basically--suicidal instincts or demons. I don't think this was Schwartz or Hirson's original idea, and I think, while intriguing and it works more than it doesn't for me, the actual material doesn't fully support this concept--as you said. Anyway, thanks for such an insightful post.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 6:07pm

SPOILERS TO FOLLOW:

Demons? Suicidal instincts? Maybe, but let's put the play back in its historical context for a moment. Its tracing of the hippy/Me Generation quest for self-fulfillment was already cliche by the time it opened--and all without our taking recourse in fantastic explanations. The play/production is also rather cynical, given Pippin's naivete.

Analyzing the Players as if they were realistic characters rather than meta-theatrical devices makes them less interesting, not more.

That being said, I otherwise enjoyed luminous and Eric's posts very much. And sure, the Leading Player is a "temptor", like Satan to Christians or demons in the OLD TESTAMENT, but that's hardly even subtext.

As for the ending, who escapes the humdrumeries of everyday life? Only those who "live fast, die young and leave a good-looking corpse". James Dean, Marilyn Monroe, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison. I don't mean the ending is "about" those dead celebrities, just that the Leading Player is offering Pippin the only way to escape having to eventually deal with drudgery and routine.


ETA: Fosse used the chorus and bit players in much the same way in CHICAGO. Do they mean the same there or something else? Updated On: 4/8/13 at 06:07 PM

[LuminousBeing]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 11:39pm

Eric and HoldThatThought: Thanks!

Gaveston - I agree with you re: the LP "offering Pippin the only way to escape having to eventually deal with drudgery and routine." And Pippin decides he prefers the hum-drum realities of life with Catherine to "leaving a good-looking corpse." And I think the message to the audience is that that's a better choice.

Re: historical context--Freudian psychoanalysis and theory as well as notions of "the unconscious" were huge in the zeitgeist around the time "Pippin" was being written. I don't think it's unreasonable that an ambitious man like Fosse would attempt to paint a portrait of the darkness in the audience's collective unconscious (Jung was pretty big as well) through song and dance.

Re: analysis making characters less interesting: the only Player whom I think acts in a "realistic" manner and whom I think lends herself to analysis is Catherine. And like I said in my earlier post, I don't think the show truly works--but the emotional impact for me in seeing this production left me with the impressions I described in my previous posts strongly enough to give the book a "by" for its flaws. (Which I usually don't do.)

Re: "Chicago": While Fosse used the chorus and background dancers similarly in that show and "Pippin," I don't think he meant for the background characters in Chicago to have the same meaning as they do in "Pippin." I think in "Chicago," the dancers were meant to reinforce the crazy environment that Roxie and Velma were in (other inhabitants of the jail), illustrate concepts through choreography instead of book scenes (e.g. Billy's lionizers and lady friends), and to epitomize that enough "razzle dazzle" can let you get away with murder.



Updated On: 4/8/13 at 11:39 PM

[darquegk]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 11:44pm

Pippin, as a show, exists entirely within a bizarre self-creating metaphor.

The only real question is, "Are the Players a symptom of Pippin, or is Pippin the symptom of the Players?"

In other words, within the show's central conceit, is Pippin a troubled fellow with voices in his head giving him reason to off himself? Or are the Players more real than the character/actor Pippin, some force, whether supernatural or social, which sacrifices to itself in the name of Glory? Without Pippin would there still be Players? Or without the Players, would there still be Pippin?

[LuminousBeing]

Posted: 4/8/13 at 11:53pm

darquegk - great question. I think that if Fosse and Schwartz had worked better together, the show might be a little more clear in its metaphor. Ultimately, I think the answer is that the Players WOULD exist without Pippin, because they're the voices inside ALL our heads. Would Pippin exist without the Players? After the end of the show, he has to.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 12:46am

Gaveston:

"Demons? Suicidal instincts? Maybe, but let's put the play back in its historical context for a moment. Its tracing of the hippy/Me Generation quest for self-fulfillment was already cliche by the time it opened--and all without our taking recourse in fantastic explanations. The play/production is also rather cynical, given Pippin's naivete. "

I absolutely agree. I think though the hippy angle was much more what Schwartz (and again I imagine Hirson, though he usually seems to stay out of it) wanted, and not what Fosse wanted or was too interested in (probably another reason for their issues with each other.)

I certainly don't take the Players as literal, or as demons (if that's what my post implied.) I do think Fosse's conceit doesn't fully work, partly because I don't buy that Fosse himself really believed the ending (maybe he always wanted to be extraordinary...)

I was going to say didn't this all happen after one of Fosse's heart attacks--but actually I guess that was a year later when he did Chicago (I think...) Still, from all his bios, he was in a perhaps somewhat suicidal funk himself during some of the staging of Pippin, at least that's one of the assumptions.

I agree with Being about the difference with the performers in Pippin and Chicago (the "chorus" as it were.) Yes, they serve some of the same function--and both shows are, under Fosse kinda shows within a show but, perhaps due to the story and the central characters, while a lot of Chicago is dark and cynical and the chorus can even seem threatening in their gleeful decadence, there's never really the threat to any character we're meant to identify with.

I certainly don't think the Players are meant to be realistic

[rclocalz]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 2:32am

Hey guys, my production company was at today's track recording of the cast album. It's gonna be gooood. We posted a photo on our Facebook Page from inside the studio:
Glamsmash Productions Facebook Page

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 7:38pm

Exactly, Eric: show within a show. At least in the 1970s, ALL Fosse's work basically says "everything we take seriously is really show business". If the story is set in the middle ages, "show business" is traveling troubadours; if set in the 20s, "show business" is a pre-war revue.

Or a cabaret (film) or a comedy club (LENNY) or a nightclub (ALL THAT JAZZ), etc. and so forth.

Luminous, you are absolutely right that Freudian principles were well-if-superficiously known by the American public in the 1950s and 1960s and were gradually replaced by Gstalt and Esalen and other belief systems in the 1970s. But I just have trouble imagining Fosse thinking openly in those terms. He broaches the subject of Freud in ALL THAT JAZZ, obviously, but tends to mock the specifics, IIRC.

(What Schwartz and Hirson thought when they were writing is another matter, of course. Like most undergrads of the era (including myself), they had surely taken Psych 101.)
Updated On: 4/9/13 at 07:38 PM

[Patti LuPone FANatic]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 7:50pm

By the way, how is the stage door going for "Pippin"? I'm seeing the show on Sat. June 8th at 8pm. I am especially curious about meeting 3 persons in particular: Charlotte D'Amboise (saw her in ACL...love her as Roxie), Andrea Martin (I remember her in the early 80's when she used to do her imitation of Indira Gandhi) and Orion Griffiths (no explanation needed). from RC in Austin, Texas

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 7:54pm

Great to hear some news about this production of Pippin that's happening right now, rclocalz. I am looking forward to buying the cast album when it comes out.

I'm wondering if anybody else who has seen this production of Pippin that is happening right now was also impressed with Yannick Thomas, the big strongman, pictured right? I kind of got a crush on him in two earlier Les 7 doigts de la main productions, particularly PSY. Anybody else?

[MaddieBB12]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 8:59pm

Patti Lupone FANatic:
There's a thread for that! :)

https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?thread=1058264&boardname=bway&dt=8

If you have any questions, I did it so just ask.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 4/9/13 at 9:25pm

Namo, I worked with him recently, all I can say is.... drool!

[macnyc]

Posted: 4/10/13 at 9:29am

On a related topic: I know that Ben Vereen has had health challenges, and I don't know what shape he's in now. But does anyone know if he's seen this revival? I read an interview with Patina Miller in which she says she hasn't been in touch with him. I would be curious to see what he thinks of the show.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 4/10/13 at 9:32am

SNAFU, that's the insider stuff I live for!

[evic]

Posted: 4/10/13 at 10:33am

Saw this last night.....Firstly, I cannot believe that there are only 10 pit musicians- they sounded incredible! Cannot believe they only have 1 male and 1 female swing- they better start looking for more. Cannot believe they only have 4 dressers. (As per listings in the Playbill)

It hits you over the head with visually stunning sets, lights, costumes and sound. The acrobatics are phenomenal and it all works in the genre of circus.

A lot of new lyrics and juxtiposition of music and dialogue. I especially liked the use of the scene change music previously used before "Science" to introduce the Finale.

Andrea does steal the show- so endearing and lovable. Pippin was excellent, charming and has a beautiful voice. Patina is beautiful and sounds and dances great but she lacked the manipulative and threatening sub context that made Ben's performance so incredible. Charlotte looked gorgeous and those legs!- her choreography in "Sunshine" reminded me of the Cassie dance. The quick costume change was like- how did they do that?- as were many of the other tricks and illusions. The knife throwing was very clever. Terrence and Catherine were lots of fun. And OMG- Stephanie Pope looks stunning- is she 50 or more?-Wow. Good to see her up there- truly talented as are all of the Players.

A few misfires -the orgy scene with the animal cage didn't do it for me , "Extraordinary", with the barnyard animals was meh, but I undertand adding another production number to the second act so it would have more pizazz. And the Bolero (Pippin and Catherine in bed) landed with a thud. I thought the show lacked a sensuality that the original had but they sure gave us the old Razzle Dazzle throughout the show and Paulus and Walker did a super job of directing, staging and choreography. The Players were not as bizarre and crazy as in the original, but this is a different vision.

Gonna be a big hit and you sure get a bang for your buck. Congratualtions. The cast works their asses off. Hope it gets many nominations and wins. Surprised it wasn't sold out- empty seats in the Mezz. But it will be so get your tickets now.

[Trish2]

Posted: 4/10/13 at 2:11pm

I'll be seeing the show soon, but i too was surprised that it's not selling out based on the terrific buzz. I mean, even Kinky Boots was selling out in previews based on the crazy over the top mayhem, yet the Music Box is a smaller house. It's on TKTS today for 30% off both matinee and evening. Plus, i just received an offer from Nederlander/Broadway Offers for discounts ranging from $49-$99 thru 5/21.

I'm sure things will change once it opens to hopefully raves, but i just thought it would be doing better at this point in the game.

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 4/10/13 at 2:21pm

Namo, I wouldn't mind having my head crushed between his thighs. Oh, those thighs.

Updated On: 4/10/13 at 02:21 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 4/10/13 at 2:56pm

Word.