Black Billy (Carousel Revival)

[RippedMan]

Posted: 7/7/17 at 5:40pm

So, my friend went on a bit of a rant today about the upcoming revival - mind you he's a white male - about how it doesn't sit well with him that Billy - a "wife beater" - will be portrayed by a black man on Broadway and what that could imply. Has this been discussed before? I admittedly don't know the show - I know, I know - so I can't really speak to it, but I'd love to hear some discussion.  

[CorkySt.Clair]

Posted: 7/7/17 at 5:46pm

Carousel labeled as a "wife beater" show is a misconception that has been explained multiple times (here's one example: Are You Grown Up Enough for 'Carousel'? - OnStage
https://apple.news/Ajaaa0na9RL6ib0aaTGBbHg). Perhaps if Billy was a sadist whose only goal was to perpetuate stereotype, your friend would be correct in his argument. Alas, that is not the case and I for one am happy that the show is cast this way. 

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 7/7/17 at 5:47pm

I don't think anyone thinks that wife beating is a black thing.  At least I hope no one thinks this.  I don't think it will imply anything.  It's not like it's a common stereotype of black men to beat their wives.  It will probably just be a mixed race cast.  I don't think the casting of a black man as Billy is supposed to mean anything nor will it portray any distasteful racial themes.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 7/7/17 at 5:54pm

It may not be intended to "mean" anything....but it certainly can be construed that way.  I can see the argument, but it's a great acting challenge, I'm sure many men, regardless of skin color would love to play it.

[BIG BALONEY]

Posted: 7/7/17 at 6:12pm

I am not going to see this production. 

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 7/7/17 at 6:25pm

Wait, so black people cant play roles that have a negative side to them now? Sorry this is PC going mad.

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 7/7/17 at 6:39pm

BIG BALONEY said: "I am not going to see this production. 

 

Woah, I guess the whole production is cancelled then...

 

[RippedMan]

Posted: 7/8/17 at 12:42am

I think it's more so that a black man is "beating" a white woman, and what that implies, how that looks, etc. 

My response was that it's a great role regardless of the negative. And like has been said, many would want to play this part. And Henry's voice/acting is insane, and I for one cannot wait to see him and Mueller. 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 7/8/17 at 4:58am

You and me, both.  

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 7/8/17 at 7:03am

GeorgeandDot said: "I don't think the casting of a black man as Billy is supposed to mean anything nor will it portray any distasteful racial themes.

I don't think it's meant to evoke anything. At least, I hope that's not the intention of the creatives unless they really know what they're doing because it's a whole can of worms. But I think it's more than the physical abuse. It's the whole character. His personality... the shiftlessness, recklessness, etc. The criminals he hangs around with. The unemployment, the gambling. His sacrifice and redemption. I certainly don't think these are traits that are any more apt when applied to a black character but you have to be willfully naive to think that this characterization and his choices don't become more loaded when you both change the race of the character and make it an interracial relationship in that time period. 

If they see the show, I'll be interested to read what Hilton Als or maybe Wesley Morris have to say about it. 

I do think Soliloquy is going to sound fantastic.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 7/8/17 at 8:37am

As you can see, I'm a white man, and I could easily trip over myself here. I would love to hear from some of my fellow posters who are African American.

My first, approximately simultaneous, reactions when I heard about the casting for this revival were: I can't want to see this! and I bet this is going to justly anger some people. It's my understanding that there has been (and probably still is in some circles) some primordial fear in the dominant white culture about black men harming white women. It's part of the reason laws against interracial marriage persisted for so long, and it's no coincidence that the ACLU chose Mildred and Richard Loving as the ideal couple to go to the Supreme Court to put an end to those laws.

It does seem like casting a black Billy and a white Julie interacts with this history in an uncomfortable way. Carousel is not a musical about spousal abuse, and it certainly doesn't condone it as some have argued, but it has to be one of a very small number that make explicit reference to it. As VintageSnarker pointed out, Billy is meant to be a rather shady character, prone to violence, and Julie is certainly a victim of his shadiness in several ways. So I can see why this particular casting choice might rub some people the wrong way.

[Kkraw1024]

Posted: 7/8/17 at 12:45pm

It rubs me the wrong way because it is not Steven Pasquale.  I don't think Billy's race matters but I think both roles are miscast, and good luck.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 7/8/17 at 12:58pm

I just hope it's a lavish revival and not 12 chairs and the band on stage. 

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 7/8/17 at 6:15pm

RippedMan said: "I just hope it's a lavish revival and not 12 chairs and the band on stage. 

Yeah, same.  Tunick is writing new orchestrations, which makes me both worried and excited.  Hopefully we get a pretty lush production.

 

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 7/9/17 at 4:27am

New Tunick orchestrations! Ye gods!!!!

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 7/9/17 at 4:31am

Mr. Nowack said: "New Tunick orchestrations! Ye gods!!!!

Yeah.  I'm excited for new Tunick orchestrations, but the original orchestrations are sublime.  Tunick has very big shoes to fill.  

I wonder if this production will be unlike any previous production.  Between the nontraditional casting and the new orchestrations, I wonder if this will be modernized in any way.

 

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 7/9/17 at 1:18pm

The originals are indeed wonderful. Tunick is generally amazing, although so was Phil Lang and his reorchestrations for the R&H studio albums were a disaster. We shall see!

[Robbie2]

Posted: 7/9/17 at 3:45pm

GeorgeandDot said: "RippedMan said: "I just hope it's a lavish revival and not 12 chairs and the band on stage. 

Yeah, same.  Tunick is writing new orchestrations, which makes me both worried and excited.  Hopefully we get a pretty lush production.

 

Nothing will compare to the stunning production we got in '94 or if Bart Sher's team was involved!

"

 

[RippedMan]

Posted: 7/9/17 at 3:46pm

That's true!  But the recent ENO in London was nicely done 

[rcwr]

Posted: 7/9/17 at 4:17pm

kdogg36: It's my understanding that there has been (and probably still is in some circles) some primordial fear in the dominant white culture about black men harming white women.

Black men have been lynched in the US for centuries on the accusation of harming white women. On the accusation, not the act. I'm not sure where I come down on this casting because I'd first need to do a close re-listen to all the details of the show (it's been years since I've looked at it closely), but the racial dynamics absolutely exist.

[darquegk]

Posted: 7/9/17 at 5:01pm

It's unfortunate but true- there are certain roles that take on different implications if you cast someone of a certain race. I'd be reluctant to cast a black Billy just because you bring up a whole ton of issues with representation and the role of black men in the period, in a show that is already decidedly concerned with classism and uneven marriages.

 

It's similar to the issues you'd get if you cast a black Finch in "How to Succeed," as the show would become a VERY different and unpleasant animal with the implication of a shiftless, manipulative (black) janitor conning, shucking and jiving his way up the corporate ladder, ending with a grotesque minstrel-show number about how "brothers" can be mediocre, incompetent and lazy, but that's okay.

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 7/9/17 at 5:05pm

I don;t have these concerns for a black Billy because I think R&H's music and lyrics have enough built-in empathy for Billy that any singer-actor will have little trouble giving a deeply moving performance. 

If anything I think casting, say, a black Eliza Doolitle will have more uncomfortable dynamics. The idea that a woman of color needs to completely change the way she talks, dresses, and carries herself to be considered acceptable.

[mamaleh]

Posted: 7/10/17 at 11:29am

Kkraw1024 said: "It rubs me the wrong way because it is not Steven Pasquale.  I don't think Billy's race matters but I think both roles are miscast, and good luck."

Although I like both actors, I'm equally disappointed about Pasquale's not playing Billy.  I think I'll skip this production. 

 

 

 

[IdinaBellFoster]

Posted: 7/10/17 at 11:51am

I do think it creates implications with the role that will make it challenging for the actor to overcome. An actress of color as Julie may have been more appropriate. Either way, very excited to see this production.

[kade.ivy]

Posted: 7/10/17 at 12:06pm

I am crazy excited for this production and can't wait to hear Josh Henry and Jessie Mueller sing the score!

As far as the racial dynamic, I think it's going to make for a very thought-provoking, perhaps ambiguous, production. I haven't thought about the domestic abuse, but I was listening to the album the other day, and the beginning of "If I Loved You" really struck me. Billy says something along the lines of, "Ain't you scared of me? Especially after what the cop said about me stealing?" And Julie says something to the effect of, "No, I didn't think nothing about what he said."

That exchange caught me in the context of thinking about this future revival. Billy's reputation will certainly be raced, and Julie's reaction will allow thinking about racial prejudice.

Re: casting a person of color as Julie, I saw an excellent production at the Stratford Festival in Canada in 2015, and Alexis Gordon (a black actress) played Julie opposite a white actor as Billy. I and don't remember being struck by any particular racialized dynamic as accentuated by the text.