Ruminations on HELLO, DOLLY!

[Dollypop]

Posted: 5/27/18 at 10:05pm

As someone who has seen HELLO, DOLLY! almost 90 times, It's safe to say I like the show. However, I've been thinking about some of the flaws in it. Maybe you can explain them for me:

1) If Horace lives and works in Yonkers, why is he marching in the 14th Street parade in NYC?

2) If Horace's business sells hay and feed. why are so many cans of tomatoes stored in the basement?

3) In this production, Ambrose is described as a "starving" artist. Why, then, does Dolly ask him to buy her train ticket and lunch?

4) Why do Ermengarde and Ambrose need 11 pieces of luggage for an overnight trip to NYC?

5) Irene describes herself as a "poor Irish immigrant" but she has no trace of an accent. Why?

Please come up with answers here. I won't be able to sleep tonight otherwise.

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 5/27/18 at 10:07pm

If anyone knows the answers to these questions, it's you.

[UncleCharlie]

Posted: 5/27/18 at 10:10pm

If Hello Dolly was written today, would it be called Hi Dolly?

[Jay Williams]

Posted: 5/27/18 at 10:14pm

Hello Dolly...............cannot remember all of your questions...........but Horace spent a lot of time in NYC trying to find a "mate" and of course he went there to see Irene and "seal the deal" perhaps.  Tomatoes:  those kind of shops sold all kinds of things.   All that luggage:  mostly a gag, and it is funny.   Forgot the rest of the questions.   I, too, saw Dolly many times..........it was my date show in college.........and it was cheap to see........maybe $4.00 for a seat and much less for standing room when I was alone.  Bibi Osterwald went on a lot for the different Dollys.........and she was wonderful.   Merman, at the end, was Merman..........and a force of nature.   I danced down 44th. Street after the show one night, with my new

boyfriend, thinking I was totally in love.   It had snowed; there was no traffic at all.  Lovely memories.

Merman 

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 5/27/18 at 10:16pm

Actually, I heard some traces of an Irish accent from Kate Baldwin. It was one of the many things that I loved about her Irene.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 5/27/18 at 10:16pm

Jay Williams said: "Hello Dolly...............cannot remember all of your questions...........but Horace spent a lot of time in NYC trying to find a "mate" and of course he went there to see Irene and "seal the deal" perhaps. Tomatoes: those kind of shops sold all kinds of things. All that luggage: mostly a gag, and it is funny. Forgot the rest of the questions. I, too, saw Dolly many times..........it was my date show in college.........and it was cheap to see........maybe $4.00 for a seat and much less for standing room when I was alone. Bibi Osterwald went on a lot for the different Dollys.........and she was wonderful. Merman, at the end, was Merman..........and a force of nature. I danced down 44th. Street after the show one night, with my new

boyfriend, thinking I was totally in love. It had snowed; there was no traffic at all. Lovely memories.

Merman"

 

Yes. Lovely memories, indeed.

 

[Itonlytakesajourney]

Posted: 5/27/18 at 10:18pm

I would guess Horace marching in the 14th Street Parade is due to him wanting to represent his business from somewhere outside of Yonkers. However, him being a half-a-millionaire and all, I doubt he would have trouble selling his products. Irene not having an accent though is probably due to the bigotry the Irish faced in the late 1800’s; if she wanted to run a sufficient business she would’ve wanted to make sure there weren’t any detectable hints of her nationality. Getting rid of an accent that would be a dead giveaway is a pretty logical thing to do, I’d say.

[EthelMae]

Posted: 5/27/18 at 10:30pm

A new Dolly thread! As I have noted many times, and the post here about Merman reminded me, I got to see her 4 times. The last time sneaking in a cassette recorder, shhhhhh! I still have some of the show on that tape (a second tape is now lost.) I listen to it sometimes and I feel 9 all over again. She might have been Merman and not Dolly but she was indeed a force of nature. I loved the way she would say her lines exactly the same and loudly every performance:
IT’S THE ONLY WAY TO SHOW HORACE VANDEGELDER THAT WE MEAN BUSINESS! ...OH AND INCIDENTLY, TELL RUDOLF THAT DOLLY IS COMING BACK AND I WANT A TABLE FOR TWO AND A CHICKEN AT EIGHT O’CLOCK TONIGHT!
Plus you got to hear two extra songs written for Merman.
Well, that didn’t answer any of your questions!

[Dollypop]

Posted: 5/27/18 at 10:34pm

EthelMae said: "A new Dolly thread! As I have noted many times, and the post here about Merman reminded me, I got to see her 4 times. The last time sneaking in a cassette recorder, shhhhhh! I still have some of the show on that tape (a second tape is now lost.) I listen to it sometimes and I feel 9 all over again. She might have been Merman and not Dolly but she was indeed a force of nature. I loved the way she would say her lines exactly the same and loudly every performance:
IT’S THE ONLY WAY TO SHOW HORACE VANDEGELDER THAT WE MEAN BUSINESS! ...OH AND INCIDENTLY, TELL RUDOLF THAT DOLLY IS COMING BACK AND I WANT A TABLE FOR TWO AND A CHICKEN AT EIGHT O’CLOCK TONIGHT!
Plus you got to hear two extra songs written for Merman.
Well, that didn’t answer any of your questions! "

No, it didn't, but it was filled with DOLLY love!

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 5/27/18 at 10:35pm

Dolly asks Ambrose to buy her train ticket and lunch because she's an insufferable egoist who's only interested in her own well-being regardless of how it may impact chief clerks or starving artists.

(This sounds tongue-in-cheek, but honestly my husband who had never seen a production of HELLO DOLLY  before the Donna Murphy performance we saw last year had that exact reaction to her machinations onstage. When the show was over, he was truthfully flummoxed how anyone could justify that woman's actions that had resulted in the ruin of Vandergelder's business and reputation and the arrest of the 4 younger characters. And what did Dolly do? Kept munching on her dumplings. He even complained specifically about her forcing Ambrose to buy her train ticket! For folks not won over by the singing and dancing or charisma of the star, this show has a lot of problems making the title character likable.)

Updated On: 5/27/18 at 10:35 PM

[Dollypop]

Posted: 5/27/18 at 10:38pm

I urge you to keep your husband far away from me at all times. Remember, I taught high school English for 36 years and know every part of the human body that doesn't leave marks.

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 5/27/18 at 11:13pm

Dollypop said: "I urge you to keep your husband far away from me at all times. Remember, I taught high school English for 36 years and know every part of the human body that doesn't leave marks."

Death threats over a musical? 

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 5/27/18 at 11:17pm

^always.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 5/28/18 at 12:26am

poisonivy2 said: "Dollypop said: "I urge you to keep your husband far away from me at all times. Remember, I taught high school English for 36 years and know every part of the human body that doesn't leave marks."

Death threats over a musical?"

 



 

Updated On: 5/28/18 at 12:26 AM

[Dollypop]

Posted: 5/28/18 at 12:27am

poisonivy2 said: "Dollypop said: "I urge you to keep your husband far away from me at all times. Remember, I taught high school English for 36 years and know every part of the human body that doesn't leave marks."

Death threats over a musical?"

 

No, not death!!!!!  Just undetectable physical harm.....you know, like a sprained ankle or diarrhea.

 

[Miles2Go2]

Posted: 5/28/18 at 12:32am

Dollypop said: "poisonivy2 said: "Dollypop said: "I urge you to keep your husband far away from me at all times. Remember, I taught high school English for 36 years and know every part of the human body that doesn't leave marks."

Death threats over a musical?"



No, not death!!!!! Just undetectable physical harm.....you know, like a sprained ankle or diarrhea.

"

I’m hearing a certain refrain from Chicago: “He had it coming...”

[Solipsist234]

Posted: 5/28/18 at 12:55am

Really? This just HAD to be a thread? I mean, the addition of this thread can now be added to the plethora of pointless threads on this revival, so you get an A+ from me, Dollypop/English Teacher (just like Albert Peterson.) And yes, I know that you are the ultimate Hello, Dolly! (and some of you just so happen to have witnessed the indescribable Ethel Merman as the final Dolly, you dolts), but you know something; I don't tend to get too hot-headed on these issues, so I guess I'll just let it slide!

(Man, I feel like I just experienced a wide range of emotions in the span of only a few sentences; I feel like I deserve an award!)

And just as a reminder, I am no narcissist, but a solipsist living in my own universe, darlings...

[Solipsist234]

Posted: 5/28/18 at 12:58am

Anyway, carry on, my wayward stars...

Oh, and Dolly: just as TotallyEffed said, "If anyone knows the answers to these questions, it's you!" If I were you, I would try and heed to that advice, darling...

[Elegance101]

Posted: 5/28/18 at 2:50am

What is happening? No, I don't care. I love it.

[msmp]

Posted: 5/28/18 at 7:34am

Regarding the hay and feed question, the staging for Dolly and the references throughout the musical (and The Matchmaker) make me think that at some point Vandergelder branched out into owning a general mercantile establishment, rather than just agricultural supply (or maybe even started that way, but marketed hay/feed most aggressively because of Yonkers' location/farm town origins). That would not have been uncommon for the era. But since he started in hay and feed, there was no need to change the name of the store; everyone knew what Vandergelder's was and who he was (he is, after all, "the first citizen of Yonkers"!).

Remember what he says in the prelude to "Penny in my Pocket" about a million dollars being made by selling something people need every day; I'd imply from that that a half-million is made selling something people need frequently but not daily. That'd fit a general store in my mind, where you can buy essentials you might need now and again (canned food if the pantry runs bare, say) or seasonally, like hay.

[MrsSallyAdams]

Posted: 5/28/18 at 9:48am

I assumed the 11 pieces of luggage included Dolly's. She's got to keep her feathered headdress somewhere.

I liked that the set designer for the current revival included Ephram Levi's shuttered store. It's not in the stage directions and I'd never seen a production do this before. Dolly visits it before the parade scene when she has the conversation with Mrs. Rose. Incidentally Mrs. Rose is a strange role. 

Updated On: 5/28/18 at 09:48 AM

[Dollypop]

Posted: 5/28/18 at 11:02am

msmp said: "Regarding the hay and feed question, the staging for Dollyand the references throughout the musical (andThe Matchmaker) make me think that at some point Vandergelder branched out into owning a general mercantile establishment, rather than just agricultural supply (or maybe even started that way, but marketed hay/feed most aggressively because of Yonkers' location/farm town origins). That would not have been uncommon for the era. But since he started in hay and feed, there was no need to change the name of the store; everyone knew what Vandergelder's was and who he was (he is, after all, "the first citizen of Yonkers"!).

Remember what he says in the prelude to "Penny in my Pocket" about a million dollars being made by selling something people need every day; I'd imply from that that a half-million is made selling something people need frequently but not daily. That'd fit a general store in my mind, where you can buy essentials you might need now and again (canned food if the pantry runs bare, say) or seasonally, like hay."

 

Still, would you buy tomatoes (even canned ones) which have been sitting on a shelf next to sheep dip?

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 5/28/18 at 11:20am

No, I'm going to hold my ground here and side with my wise husband. Dollypop herself brought up the quibble about Dolly's cheapskatedness in forcing poor Ambrose to front her the train fare and lunch, something for which no-one else on this board has offered a cogent explanation. Why bring it up if doesn't rankle your sense of fairness just a bit, Dollypop?

If you put aside emotions for one moment, and analyze Dolly's actions as a real person in the real world, wouldn't a normal person find nearly every action she takes egoistic and oblivious of the needs and wants of the folks around her? She's a meddlesome busybody who compulsively stirs the pot in the lives of every other person she comes in contact with. Why? Because she's running a business of meddling, and expects to be paid for her unwanted ministrations. For all the mystique that Gower Champion and his ladystars could bring to the musical show, they can't quite paper over the unpleasant traits that were there in the character since Thornton Wilder first committed her to the stage in "The Matchmaker" back in the 50's.

My wise husband was simply smart enough to pick up on all this on his first viewing of the show.

Updated On: 5/28/18 at 11:20 AM

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 5/28/18 at 11:37am

My wise husband actually snorted at the contrived deus ex machina strings pulled to make that last scene come out the way it did. He found none of it fairly earned by what had come before. 

[Impossible2]

Posted: 5/28/18 at 11:38am

She was a con woman and a criminal and about as charming as Donald Trump.

I hope she ended up in jail after she fleeced Horace out of all of his cash x