This board in the old days - Page 3

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 11/16/19 at 3:05pm

Owen22 said: "Early on this board seem to be exclusively a forum for people to air grievances about a certain Glee actress whose obviously seemingly sociopathic extremes lead many on here to attack her in almost misogynistic ways that really disturbed me!
Oh those good ol' days."

What? The board was created in 2003. Glee started in 2009.

Anyway, the real downfall started after Facebook opened up for everyone. Many of the longtime posters came for the community and the off-topic board, and once Facebook was an option, they started communicating there instead, with real names and pictures, and no trolls (*insert nostalgic thread about the good old days of Facebook*). So if you weren't coming to BWW to chat on the OT board all day, you weren't browsing the main board to participate in discussions either.

[joevitus]

Posted: 11/16/19 at 3:37pm

LarryD2 said: "joevitus said: "I find there are still clicks and toxic behavior (though the ones doing it almost always accuse others of being the toxic ones--nice psychological warfare going on) and the moderators sometimes support this(moderators never give their names, so you don't know who is responding to you at any given time--if you get a response to a complaint). It's definitely strange around here. If it used to be much worse--yikes!"

The board isn't perfect now and it wasn't perfect then. Then and now, there were people trying to have intelligent and informed conversations about theater and popular culture -- just as then and now, there were trolls and people who only wanted to talk about bootlegs and Wicked. As others in this thread have noted, we tend to view the past through rose-tinted glasses, and to romanticize the way things were."

I appreciate this response. Thanks!

[east side story]

Posted: 11/16/19 at 4:53pm

I came to this board after the one at Broadway.com was shut down, and this site became a viable alternative. The board at the aforementioned website was decommissioned due to the kweendom taking place, and it reflected poorly on their brand. I remember being in high school and living for that drama, and many of those posters migrated here to BWW. Remember when Namo was machoman? VelmaKelly? VoiceAnth? Munkustrap123? CATSNY? While I was in undergrad, this site was the JOINT! But like any platform over time, its certainly beyond the expiration date, but still useful for info. My original name was PJ, which often confused me as posters referred to PalJoey as such. Somewhere along the way I made a new account because quite honestly I couldn’t remember my log in after a brief hiatus of lurking-only.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 11/16/19 at 9:14pm

soulgrrl said: "sabrelady said: "Did this all startwith the Patti Murin incident?

Yes For all the reason given. $$$$$$"

Joined the board years ago but strayed w life etc...but for those not in the know, I'm dying to know what this incident was now! l Too bad ya'll can't spill the tea it seems! Will google away...

"

The incident I recall--and my memory these days is nothing to brag about--did not involve attacks on Miss Murin personally, but a sort of celebratory attitude among some posters when a show closed prematurely (out of town, in previews, some time before opening) due to lack of money and bad word of mouth. IIRC, Murin and others complained that such celebration ignored the fact that hundreds of people were now out of work--some for the entire season. Other actors (including my favorite, Steven Pasquale) chimed in supporting Ms. Murin's view.

I don't know what was said during the face-to-face between Murin and the BWW mod, but I thought she made a fair point that could have been allowed to stand along with the posts that argued the show in question was always a bad idea.

But BWW seemed to side with protecting advertisers and its own access to Broadway performers. The advertising has only grown in the time that followed.

Speaking only for myself, I used to spend an hour or so a day at this site. Now I skim the topics quickly and, most days, spend no more than a few minutes here. And trust me, I was the target of much of the vitriol from the more aggressive old-time posters--but so what? I'm a grown up and so are they and, I assume, so is Miss Murin.

ETA artists who choose to express themselves in a public art form should be prepared to take a little heat. On the other hand, we BWW posters should remember that the artists we discuss here may be reading our remarks.

Updated On: 11/16/19 at 09:14 PM

[Patti LuPone FANatic]

Posted: 11/16/19 at 9:42pm

The board in the old days resembled a combination Mean Girls and the Wild, Wild West. That reminds me of when people miss the bad old days of New York City in the 1970's.   I myself joined in around 2005 (having had some log in issues, I had to re-register).  I've placed quite a few posters in the Ignore list for any number of reasons.  Over the years, I've dealt with critics (especially of my admiration for "Chicago" with a carefully crafted response.  If that didn't work, then I was glad when the Ignore Feature became operational.  I can say that one thing ;makes me nostalgic for the board  in the old days.  While there are any number of "veteran" posters, I do miss someone like MargoChanning, whose knowledge and perpeption of all things theatre was amazing.  He was a treasure.

Updated On: 11/16/19 at 09:42 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/17/19 at 9:42am

 

What Patti Murin and Steven Pasquale failed to understand was that the message board, in its pre-Facebook heyday, was a NOT a "fetid, squalid, toxic cesspool of hate" (or whatever she called it), but a meeting place where theater fans of different generations, different tastes, different loves, different obsessions came together and shared, compared, argued, and LEARNED FROM EACH OTHER. And, in many cases, we came to respect, admire, and even love each other. That we were sometimes bitchy, rude, outrageous, or even offensive, well, that was part of the deal, just like in life.

I miss it, like a miss a lot of things that were better "in the old days" ("Okay, okay, okay, boomer," as the millennials like to say to us), but the truth is those years WERE a Golden Age for both the kids and the Old Timers. We learned from their enthusiasms and they learned from ours--and that's something that ought to have been encouraged not legislated away.

But Ms. Murin and Mr. Pasquale won the battle, and the Old Days came to an end, as Old Days have since the beginning of time. That's what old day DO: they end. And if we don't appreciate our Golden Ages when we're in them, we're just gonna miss them when they eventually end.

Me? I'm still the kid who stagedoored at matinees after Saturday-morning classes at AADA and watched in awe as Ann Miller signed autographs after Mame and chatted with Sir John Gielgud after Home and got kissed on the mouth by Shelley Winters after Minnie's Boys. I'm still the 15-year-old who cut school to stand on line at the Winter Garden to buy tickets the morning after Follies opened, while Hal Prince and Ruthie Mitchell went up and down the ticket-buyers line with a coffee-and-donuts wagon, thanking us for being there. (I bought the last row in the balcony, which Hal and Ruthie sold for two dollars a seat.) 

Somehow, however, I haven't been able to bring myself to see a Murin or a Pasquale show since--and I used to love them. I don't think I'll ever forgive either one of them. As "cruel" as they claimed we were, what they destroyed was not a cesspool; it was a garden. And it was beautiful.

 

Yr pal, Joey

[Jose]

Posted: 11/17/19 at 10:12am

Well said, Pal Joey.

I came to BWW this morning to read what theater-goers had to say about THE INHERITANCE, whose Part 1 I saw two nights ago.  I happened to see this thread and being one of the early members, I had to skim through.  Being the first publicly named sole Moderator I was disliked by some (vehemently by a few), liked by more and treated indifferently by most members. I volunteered my time to help Rob manage this Board and enjoyed my time with nearly all members. Moderating was a bitch, and that’s a fact. Despite it all, I made strong, secure personal friendships with some folks that remain all these years later.  As in life, paths cross and once that happens I believe we each take something of the other person with us as we move along in life.  Enjoy your time here, it is YOUR Golden Age. 

Cheers!

José

[devonian.t]

Posted: 11/17/19 at 11:51am

Bravo Joey.

We all need our little den of iniquity and this was a good one.

[Huss417]

Posted: 11/17/19 at 11:56am

Who is Patti Murin?

[Fosse76]

Posted: 11/17/19 at 12:43pm

The Distinctive Baritone said: "PatrickDC said: "I have two theories:

1. BWW is covering themselves from a legal perspective. I'm not a lawyer and don't know Internet law at all, but could a chat forum such as this be held liable for rumors, gossip, and negative posts about actors or productions? Craigslist removed their personals section because they could be sued for promoting human trafficking and prostitution. Does a similar issue apply to BWW legally"


Yes to both. Legal liability for slander, pissing off advertisers (how BWW actually makes money), and also alienating prominent members of the Broadway community.
 

Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act disagrees with you. It specifically states "No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider. " So no, BWW is not liable. 

[ModernMillie3]

Posted: 11/17/19 at 1:28pm

What Patti Murin and Steven Pasquale failed to understand was that the message board, in its pre-Facebook heyday, was a NOT a "fetid, squalid, toxic cesspool of hate" (or whatever she called it), but a meeting place where theater fans of different generations, different tastes, different loves, different obsessions came together and shared, compared, argued, and LEARNED FROM EACH OTHER. That we were sometimes bitchy, rude, outrageous, or even offensive, well, that was part of the deal, just like in life.

Patti wrote the blog, dozens of Broadway actors supported her publicly, even more did so privately. So, dragging Steven  is unnecessary, because you would have to drag many others as well. He is one of the best singers on Broadway, and seems like a lovely human being. Wanting basic decency and not wanting his friends/wife/ex wife to be disrespected is not a difficult concept, I am sure you want the people in your life to be treated well, too. Neither one is hurting without your patronage. I am sure you have seen many shows since 2016 with actors that supported Patti, they just wouldn't talk about it publicly because they still want you to spend money to attend their shows. 

The thing is, they would never take away your ability to tell such wonderful stories like the ones you just told. Your vast knowledge, insight and memories are what makes BWW such a great place. Patti was just calling out the abusive, cruel posters. And being bitchy, rude, outrageous and offensive is not "part of the deal." You can do that in your own life. But this is a website with rules, and they have every right to enforce them. People are too scared to join or start threads for fear they will be mocked and disrespected. The days of you calling people "sock puppets" or "shills" simply because they wanted to introduce themselves is over, and that's a very positive step, in my opinion.  

[After Eight]

Posted: 11/17/19 at 2:00pm

What I find odd here is that it's AOK to lament the “good old days” of a message board.

But woe be to anyone who dares lament the “good old days” of our theatre. That's an absolute no-no.

And they were better by far!

 

 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/17/19 at 2:02pm

This thread contains more nuance and understanding of life's holdable contradictions than your one-note posts have ever done, Rex Reed.

 

 

[Highland Guy]

Posted: 11/17/19 at 2:21pm

Here's what I learned from Thomas Wolfe:    You Can't Go Home Again.

Updated On: 11/17/19 at 02:21 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/17/19 at 2:46pm

But we all learned something else from Dorothy Gale of the Kansas Gales.

[ggersten]

Posted: 11/17/19 at 4:16pm

Then there was Marc Shaiman's "tribute" from 2004 - article from 2011 because well - 

Article as Link to video comes up "Access Denied"

I don't know why I'm denied access to the video - maybe a moderator (Rob?) can reopen it?

[Impossible2]

Posted: 11/17/19 at 5:45pm

FindingNamo said: "This thread contains more nuance and understanding of life's holdable contradictions than your one-note posts have ever done, Rex Reed.



"

omg

[ggersten]

Posted: 11/17/19 at 8:57pm

This link to the Marc Shaiman song may work   or you can go to the thread about the number.

[bk]

Posted: 11/17/19 at 10:17pm

I've been here from the start, I think.  Rob and Craig asked me to join the board pretty soon after the launch.  Broadway World was created by Rob - he took parts of the websites he really liked and did a combo platter of them - mine was one of the sites he borrowed from, as we had a rather lively discussion board, plus he liked that we had a Broadway Radio Show.  And yes, it was wild and wooly and yes, there were some really obnoxious posters in those days, some of whom are still here, albeit a bit less obnoxious.  In those days, it was quite easy to know who people really were.  

The over-the-years changes have been interesting to watch, including the big Patti brouhaha and its result, and who was most upset by that brouhaha.  But online bullying has gotten so rampant and it's always been part of this board, so the stopping of that is only a good thing.  

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/18/19 at 12:13am

What was particularly interesting to watch was how after the brouhaha (after which I never want to see anything on TV or stage with Laura Benanti ever again; and I saw her 3 x on the Bway!), esteemed also-rans like A8 and bk were posting about how civil and lovely the boards were without all those hooligans and ruffians who caused them to clutch their costume jewelry all the time. Within a matter of weeks, the off-topic board was no longer having more than 3 or 4 active threads a day, where ante la Murin a thread with no responses would drop off page one within 48 hours. 

I guess what we've learned is that certain moribund old timers (in every sense of the phrase) prefer an atrophying old school website over what was once a very lively space that had a true community feel. The world only moves forward. But 20 clicks a day on an entire board can't be good for business, can it? And how much are Statler & Waldorf ever gonna pony up to advertisers?

[bk]

Posted: 11/18/19 at 5:01am

FindingNamo said: "What was particularly interesting to watch was how after the brouhaha (after which I never want to see anything on TV or stage with Laura Benanti ever again; and I saw her 3 x on the Bway!), esteemed also-rans like A8 and bk were posting about how civil and lovely the boards were without all those hooligans and ruffians who causedthem to clutch their costume jewelryall the time. Within a matter of weeks, the off-topic board was no longer having more than 3 or 4 active threads a day, where ante la Murin a thread with no responses would drop off page one within 48 hours.

I guess what we've learned is that certain moribund old timers (in every sense of the phrase) prefer an atrophying old school website over what was once a very lively space that had a true community feel. The world only moves forward. But 20 clicks a day on an entire board can't be good for business, can it? And how much are Statler & Waldorf ever gonna pony up to advertisers?"

Well, we knew you'd be the first to respond to me, since you were one of the worst when this board began.  Why are you still here if you don't like it?  There were many people posting that the board was toxic - not just two people, dear, many people.  What did Laura Benanti do, pray tell?  I must have missed it, whatever it was.  Last but not least, you seem to be clutching at your own set of pearls right about now.  But it's been swell and ever so much fun conversing again after all these years.  

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 11/18/19 at 10:04am

Thanks for the shoutout, Broadway Breakdown!

https://player.fm/series/broadway-breakdown-1525928/ep-56-my-obsession-broadwayworldcom-w-melanie-brook

[alex814]

Posted: 11/18/19 at 10:04am

orangeskittles said: "Owen22 said: "Early on this board seem to be exclusively a forum for people to air grievances about a certain Glee actress whose obviously seemingly sociopathic extremes lead many on here to attack her in almost misogynistic ways that really disturbed me!
Oh those good ol' days."

What? The board was created in 2003. Glee started in 2009."

The show with said Glee actress opened in 2006.

[ModernMillie3]

Posted: 11/18/19 at 1:40pm

Why are you still here if you don't like it?  There were many people posting that the board was toxic - not just two people, dear, many people.  What did Laura Benanti do, pray tell?  I must have missed it, whatever it was.

Laura did nothing, of course, and she's known to be one of the most honest, straightforward, funniest women on Broadway. He left the boards when the Patti thing happened in 2016. He's been slowly coming back, offering no opinions on shows of course, just being negative and asking BWW to pay him to get people to their website. Very funny stuff. 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/18/19 at 1:58pm

You should consider my begging people not to spend money on premium seating for Jagged Little Pill my form of commentary on Jagged Little Pill, jagged little mill. 

I do give credit to AfterEight and bk for misreading so many things, from plays to posts. I didn't say I didn't like it here. I simply said that the board used to be one thing, then a significant event happened and ever since then there are three active posts on the off-topic board a day. At most. That some people might have liked THEN better (to borrow a theme from one of Bk's self-published novels) and some people prefer a sort of static sameness, is simply a matter of taste.

I mean, just read this thread. Some people wanted to reminisce about the board nostalgically and some wanted to disabuse them of the notion that the good old days were so good at all. Then along comes Rex Reed wondering why it's AOK to say the good old days here were better but not the same about theater. Well, if he'd read the thread he'd see it's much more nuanced than anybodyy at all saying it was AOK. But what can we expect from After Eight. Who posted, but couldn't really have thought, that "Ring of Keys" was about a child lusting after an older woman. I mean, either he never actually saw "Fun Home," but heard the recording, or he went in there on reviewer's comps destined to hate it because it wasn't, "Mary, Mary."

 

Updated On: 11/18/19 at 01:58 PM