OUR Hamilton Reviews- Page 6

[JGPR2]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 12:22pm

" Frankly, I signed up for D+ just to see this....but spending 7 bucks a month to KEEP seeing it is very tempting. "

Most people signed up for Disney plus for the Marvel movies and animation like "Frozen". "Hamilton" is the bonus for them -lol.

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 12:39pm

I’m in the minority but finding it a bit of a slog to get through. It all kind of sounds the same after awhile and the set/design/direction don’t feel very interesting - which I think is a product of it coming from a limited off-Broadway house.

I made it to “Satisfied.” And I’ve listened to that for years and it didn’t feel like any sort of “wow” moment that I was expecting. I’ll continue to watch, but wishing I had those gut reactions some of y’all are having.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 12:59pm

Fosse76 said: "
The audience is essential, I agree. But that still wouldn't have prevented them from being able to film his scenes with another actor in an empty theate.
***
They could have bought out the rest of his contract. It's done all the time. I don't recall, but wasn't this filmed in the last weeks of the original cast?
***
I had that initial impression because it was an abrupt about-face on his part, as it was pretty common knowledge he didn't to do it."

Some of your ideas "could" be done. (Some would be actionable.) In any event, I think filming with someone else (when that someone is not the person who won the Tony) and without an audience is not the same thing qualitatively and would not have been undertaken in the way this was. Buying out a contract requires a negotiation, which takes us right back to square one. Alternatively, they could have waited until the contract expired (you are correct. it was shortly after) and extended everyone else for a week, assuming they would all agree. (You also have to remember that everyone stood to benefit from his positioning, and it is unclear exactly how that would have shaked out had there been an extreme solution.) From what I understand, there was no about face; he was negotiating over a period. Finally, filming without a live audience would have altered how this would be described, and if it came to that it seems more likely they would have done other things to the piece. They could have filmed it in Jersey; everything is legal in Jersey. The bottom line is LOJ had them over a barrel and they did what they had to do and now everyone (including LOJ) is proud of what they did. 

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 1:02pm

From what I understood they filmed it with Leslie. He just didn't want to sign the release for it until some financial negotiations happened. 

This is similar to Cesare Siepi (a Met star bass) who wouldn't sign the release for many Met broadcasts being replayed over SIrius XM. He and the Met had a falling out years ago. When he passed away his children finally allowed Siepi broadcasts to be on the air again.

[jpbran]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 1:42pm

Seems odd for them to proceed with a nearly $10m filming/recording without the leads all having signed on... (releases, etc.) Surely they realized one ego could really mess things up. 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 2:38pm

They had everyone's signatures before filming, but he signed much later than everyone else. Very, very last minute. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 2:59pm

JGPR2 said: "" Couldn't they just CGI away JG's drool? "

I would think they could or maybe gone with another camera shot of him instead of a closeup."

It is clear they wanted it. I like it as a choice.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 3:03pm

A lot of misinformation about "releases" above. Suffice it to say that Sutton is right that they did not go forward until all agreements were in place. I can't believe anyone thinks they would. 

[Highland Guy]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 3:06pm

Watched it.  Did not like it.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 3:21pm

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/05/opinions/hamilton-movie-mixed-messages-black-lives-matter-morales/index.html

 

[sabrelady]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 3:22pm

Highland Guy said: "Watched it. Did not like it."

 

That's too bad. I'm sad 4 u.

[binau]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 3:36pm

RE: That CNN link It's absolutely crazy that now apparently Hamilton and associated people are not 'woke' enough for 2020. I just can't stand it any longer. Anyway, watching this I think:

1. The quality of this filming is excellent with the right balance of wide shots and close-ups. The colours are really great and the sound quality is high.

2. The experience watching this is SO much better than sitting in the rear mezz, to which several years ago we had the 'privilege' of paying hundreds of dollars, while also settling for a board of understudies. I will never see the show again on stage unless there is a good reason to. The perfect cast and experience for so much less.

3. I still can't believe this very long, dense, historical musical was able to appeal to a mass audience in the way it has. If this had closed a flop I think we would easily have said it was just too complex, too long and too niche to appeal the way it has. I get why 'musical' people would like it. But that's about it.  

Updated On: 7/5/20 at 03:36 PM

[Miles2Go2]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 4:58pm

I think that he CNN article spins some false dichotomies. We don’t have to pick whether Alexander Hamilton was this or that. He was all those things. And saying the failure of Holler If Ya Hear Me and the success of Hamilton somehow shows white liberals weren’t ready for a gritty hip-hop musical ignores that the overwhelming consensus at the time was that Holler... wasn’t a good show. Now, it’s probably true that a large swath of white America wasn’t/isn’t ready for a gritty hip-hop musical. But that didn’t seem to play a major role on Holler’s commercial demise.

But as I’ve been educating myself more about racism and white privilege, I’ll admit that there is much to learn from criticisms of Hamilton from activists. While I may find it revolutionary that POC are portraying these deeply flawed white founding fathers and women (as someone else noted on here, “Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Tells Your Story” took on added resonance for me on my viewing yesterday), the criticism that many of their flaws have been rounded off to make them more palatable to large audiences is also probably valid. The argument can also be made that it’s the audience’s job to do the work to recognize the flaws of these men and women as juxtaposed against the brown and black men portraying them onstage. I’ll admit that this musical has left such a transformational mark on me that I often subliminally think of these actual historic men and women captured in Hamilton as POC and often find it momentarily jarring when presented with photographic evidence to the contrary. I don’t know if that speaks to the radical, revolutionary spirit of Hamilton or that I still have much more work (a job that is continual and never ending) to do to become anti-racist. My guess it’s both not either/or, but both/and.

Lastly, one thing I’ve come across repeatedly in my recent education and reading lately (highly recommend the books The New Jim Crow and White Fragility) is that racism is not a POC problem. It’s a white problem and therefore it’s a problem that white people must own and take responsibility to solve. Only then, will we make will real headway. So to call out LMM for not being more active early on (which he admits) in supporting the BLM movement, seems a bit wrongheaded to me. How outspoken have ALW or Sondheim been? Is there one metric for POC creatives and another for white creatives? Sadly, we already know the answer.

Sorry for the long-winded post. I’m working on my own white fragility (first step is admitting you have it). That’s sometimes hard because as a gay man I know what it’s like to be prejudged and to not only experience homophobia, but to also have internalized it. So I’ve tried to be mindful of judging others based on gender or race my whole life even though I’ve known even before this moment we find ourselves in that I’ve internalized sexist and racist messages that sometimes alter my viewpoints and actions and I have to try to consciously and consistently guard against that. That can cause all of us to be defensive and closed-off when our views are contradicted. I’m trying to be more open to those teachable moments. That being said, I know it’s not people’s of color job to educate white folks (and there’s not one monolithic POC viewpoint), but if any BIPOC posters are open to having that conversation about that CNN article, I’d value that in either in this thread or via PMs.

Have a great rest of your weekend, everyone!

[Miles2Go2]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 5:08pm

Oops! It’s me again. Just happened across this short video that a friend posted on FB. 

https://www.facebook.com/152739451297/posts/10157732236046298/?vh=e

Say what you will about Hamilton, but isn’t it a something that it has the power and influence to enter the public’s consciousness and start these conversations? No matter what one thinks of Mamma Mia, it’s not doing this.  

[binau]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 5:22pm

One thing I also realise watching this is that even though Leslie is a much stronger singer than Lin and has some great moments, Lin is a stronger actor in the role than I realised - and these close up shots only help to pull out some of the subtext in interactions with the other characters. And he can pull the waterworks when he needs to, which as a Bernadette fan of course is something I appreciate. I’m not saying they made the wrong choice when they gave the Tony, but I think the choice was harder than I had previously thought based on seeing the show without Lin and hearing him on the cast recording only.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 5:31pm

Nice posts, Miles.

Re Holler and the blame for its misfortunes, vis-a-vis Hamilton, one of the points that has been made about systemic racism in the theatre is that there are not enough POC in positions of power on either the business or creative sides, not to mention with experience and bona fides. The driving forces behind Holler were white. The driving force behind Hamilton was a POC who had plenty of experience and bona fides. Does that inherently translate into a better product? Of course not, but it is not for nothing as we (all) navigate the learning process you so elegantly note.

[JGPR2]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 6:08pm

" It is clear they wanted it. I like it as a choice. "

To each their own but it is very odd choice IMO and not attractive one. We all know they can spray when they sing but why focus on it with closeup. Just curious, why do you like it as a choice?

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 8:19pm

JGPR2 said: "" It is clear they wanted it. I like it as a choice. "

To each their own but it is very odd choice IMO and not attractive one. We all know they can spray when they sing but why focus on it with closeup. Just curious, why do you like it as a choice?"

KGIII was crazy (see, e.g., The Madness of King George) and was portrayed in Hamilton as a fool. I read the slobbering as foaming at the mouth, and I thought it was apt. YMMV

[BLs68]

Posted: 7/5/20 at 10:45pm

BLs68 said: "Very much looking forward to watching this later today!!

Hamilton was the one show I wanted to see this year. Was supposed to go in April and September, but had the opportunity to go in early February. Had I known, I would have seen it in February. Planning for Hamilton to be the first show I see when everything opens up next year. "
 

Finally able to watch it today (actually finishing it now.. Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Tells Your Story is on now).

I thought Daveed Diggs stole the show and Lafayette/Jefferson was the highlight of the movie. Wish I saw Hamilton’s original Broadway company in NYC but happy it’s now available on Disney+ to watch. Being able to watch this on Disney+ makes me even more excited for a return trip to Hamilton almost 3 years after the first! 

[binau]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 3:38am

He really was great, and the Tony was well deserved. Though I suppose almost everyone gets their moment in this show. There is not a second watching this supporting cast that I am waiting or wishing for the leads to return during their scenes.

[A Director]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 4:13am

It was very classy that each member of the Ensemble got an individual name card in the credits.

[NOWaWarning]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 5:42am

Just a side note re: Holla If You Hear Me. That show opened in June. Even if it had won rave reviews, very few new musicals could succeed opening so early in the season like that. True, Hamilton opened in the summer as well, but it already had all the hype and press from the off-Broadway run behind it. HIYHM opened cold on Broadway. End of side note.

[schubox]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 10:00am

I've seen a lot of things similar to that CNN article and I don't really get it. People saying you can't set something in that time without focusing on slavery. Lin, to his credit, has been open and apologetic for not being able to delve into it all. But like he said, these men ultimately did nothing about slavery. They talked about it a little, but ended up doing nothing to help solve it. That was why he cut the third cabinet battle, it was all about slavery but they didn't do anything about it so it didn't fit the narrative he had constructed/ So what is he supposed to do? Step out of character and chastise the founding fathers? 

I've read people justifying the show by calling it fan fiction as well. I kind of get that, but I feel that does a disservice too. These are deeply flawed, genius men and you can't cover all of their nuances in a 3 hour musical. He has to paint caricatures almost, and I felt he did what he could to acknowledge their flaws. Could he have done more? Probably, would it have changed anything fundamental about the show? If anything this show has opened up new, previously closed channels of discussion about our founding fathers. People are reading biographies and researching these men with discerning eyes, and not the heroic filters we were given as children. One man can't solve historic racism with a musical, but he's moved the conversation along.

[schubox]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 2:51pm

‘Hamilton’ Drives Up Disney Plus App Downloads 74% Over the Weekend in U.S.

 

https://variety.com/2020/digital/news/hamilton-disney-plus-premiere-app-downloads-72-percent-1234698795/

[Elfuhbuh]

Posted: 7/6/20 at 2:52pm

The truth people don’t seem to want to accept is that history is a lot more nuanced and complex than either side of the “debate” wants to let on. No, the Founding Fathers weren’t perfect and made some really bad decisions, but many of the ideals they fought for paved the way to freedoms we as Americans enjoy today. You can study historical policies and the lives of the FF while still acknowledging that they were flawed men, just as you can harshly criticize the bad things they did while still giving credit to the ideas they had that revolutionized the democratic system and benefitted the country. If you look at all of history with a black and white lens, it will be hard to find anything good about much of humanity’s history as a whole. I think LMM did a good job at starting the conversation without falling into hero worship or blindly denouncing every single aspect of our nation’s history. 

Updated On: 7/6/20 at 02:52 PM