Delta Variant and Broadway- Page 10
Delta Variant and Broadway
#225Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 3:37am
uncageg said: "People are already creating fake cards. A few people got caught earlier this year. They suspected people were copying them from peoplewho jumped on social media and posted pics of their cards. (That's why there was such a big thing over not posting them) Also there was the guy out west that got caught stealing hundreds of blank cards from the vaccination site he worked at. It's all happening."
Anecdotal stories do nothing to tell you what a prevailing event it is. Plucking them offline from you posting them is nothing but a conspiracy theory. If anybody wanted to falsify the record it's easier than just taking down information of someone you see online.
There will always be "a few people" attempting to circumvent any barriers you put in place, doesn't mean you don't do them. Plus as Hogan said, the Venn Diagram of people willing to put down hundreds of dollars on tickets for Broadway and those who are so anti-vax they're falsifying documents are pretty much two untouched circles.
BroadwayRox3588
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/5/16
#226Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 4:26am
Anecdotal reports of people faking vaccination cards should not deter Broadway theatres from requiring proof of vaccination. Not to mention that forgery of these cards is a federal offense. I could, of course, be wrong, but I don't expect very many people would be willing risk prison time, just to see a Broadway show. Regardless of how long Broadway has been closed.
Updated On: 7/29/21 at 04:26 AM
JasonC3
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/22/21
#227Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 8:25am
It is just wild to see one or two people in this thread frame their sweeping and blanket generalizations or predictions as if they are preordained universal truth.
They call out anecdotal observation as bad or inconsequential ... unless they are their own. Those are treated as legit data.
#228Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 8:47am
I completely agree. It’s actually quite harmful for people to continue using this rhetoric.
The only way out of this pandemic is using science as evidence. The whole “people are forging vaccine cards” is along the same likes as “ballots are being trashed” argument.
Another example - people attempt to deposit counterfeit money (and some probably have done it successfully), but we don’t close down all banks. It’s because it happens so minimally.
Most people do not want to deal with hassle of getting a fake vaccine card, forging information, and risk getting charged with a felony.
And even if someone who was positive with COVID faked a vaccine card and entered a crowded Broadway theatre, those of us who are vaccinated have virtually no risk of getting sick enough to be hospitalized.
saxpower
Featured Actor Joined: 9/14/16
#229Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 9:48am
I'm in no way saying that we shouldn't require vaccines just because people can fake vaccination cards. I'm all for requiring vaccines. I'm just observing that they aren't exactly difficult to fake, which means people presenting the card is not absolute, so we can't assume everyone in a theatre is vaccinated just because they showed cards. Counterfeiting money takes some skill. Most of us here could not make a convincing fake $20 bill, but I don't think most of us could create a convincing vax card. Again that does NOT mean we don't require the vax- just something to keep in mind.
Require the vaccinations, but people attending the shows should not just assume everyone's vaccinated and should take the same precautions they would in other places they'd potentially be around the unvaccinated.
(Then again, if people truly think the vaccine magnetizes your body or implants a tracking chip, they may not be smart enough to figure out how to make a fake vax card.)
#230Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 9:51am
jlindsey865 said: "And even if someone who was positive with COVID faked a vaccine card and entered a crowded Broadway theatre, those of us who are vaccinated have virtually no risk of getting sick enough to be hospitalized."
This last paragraph is the money part and it makes two key points. First, not only is it unlikely that there are more than a few forgers who go to the theatre, the odds that one of them happens coincidentally to be in a window of covid positivity/infectability at that very moment is miniscule. It is well to remain mindful of the fact that all of these rules are directed at public health issues, not personal health ones. Which leads to the second point that even if all of the boxes are checked to this point, the likelihood of serious illness in a vaccinated person is statistically nil. The reason for all the concern by government, employers, schools, etc., is that fools who are not vaccinated are creating a pandemic of the unvaccinated and that is a huge concern. It is absolutely mind-blowing that Florida has more folks in the hospital right now than at any point in the last year and a half, when there is a ridiculously simple way to reduce that number to near zero. Would I take kids under 12 to Lion King? That's a good question (probably yes, with masks), but no one posting here is in that group and I am assuming there are none of the people asking these questions here are unvaccinated.
#231Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 10:07am
While I do agree, the comparison to counterfeit money does not go to the unsettling nature of health and safety. Passing a fake fiver to a bank or slipping a ballot is one thing, contracting or bringing home to my loved ones a disease you're carrying because you actively don't know or don't care about and breathing on me for two hours is another. Not to mention to the house staff of these theatres that have to breathe in audience air eight times a week.
People are literally forging vaccine cards to get on planes. It's small, but it's more than anecdotal, but it's a fact, and it's totally fine for people to have concerns. Not saying throw the baby out with the bathwater, but those concerns are legitimate.
"Hey little girls, look at all the men in shiny shirts and no wives!" - Jackie Hoffman, Xanadu, 19 Feb 2008
#232Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 10:38am
everythingtaboo said: "While I do agree, the comparison to counterfeit money does not go to the unsettling nature of health and safety. Passing a fake fiver to a bank or slipping a ballotis one thing, contracting or bringing home to my loved ones a disease you're carrying because you actively don't know or don't care about and breathing on me for two hours is another. Not to mention to the house staff of these theatres that have to breathe in audience air eight times a week.
People are literally forging vaccine cards to get on planes. It's small, but it's more than anecdotal,but it's a fact, and it's totally fine for people to have concerns. Not saying throw the baby out with the bathwater, but those concerns are legitimate."
Bringing something home to someone who cannot be vaccinated is, of course, a legitimate concern, even if it is statistically remote. Wearing a mask makes it that much more remote, to the point of virtually nil. (And this applies to house staff which will be fully vaccinated as well.)
Regarding getting on a plane with a fake card, since no vaccination is required domestically, this would seem pretty weird to me and the notion of doing so internationally is fraught with risk that, while I don't doubt someone has tried, seems incredibly dumb since you could end up unable to return. For instance, checking for fake serial numbers is pretty easy to do and while it would not be likely at a theatre, it certainly would be when you are passing through an immigration gauntlet. I think the bottom line remains that all of these things are little more than theoretically possible as a source of concern.
Alexander Lamar
Broadway Star Joined: 2/16/16
#233Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 11:40amAtlantic Theater Company just sent an email - vaccination required for all audiences and employees.
#234Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 1:09pm
I'm not sure if it made it into the final version of the CDC recommendations, but I do remember reading that a draft only recommended masks if you are consistently in close quarters with someone who is immunocompromised/high risk.
If I lived with someone who was immunocompromised and unvaccinated, I would probably behave differently (i.e. wearing a mask even though I am vaccinated, etc.).
BroadwayRox3588
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/5/16
#235Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 2:56pm
FWIW, Mayor de Blasio said during his media briefing today, that there would be new mask guidance coming out on Monday. Assuming that he recommends that everyone mask up indoors (even if it isn't a mandate), I would be surprised if that doesn't have an impact on masking policies at Pass Over, as well as the remainder of Springsteen's run.
#236Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 2:59pm
I understand the concerns over fake vaccine cards etc.
However, as more businesses require people to show proof of vaccination, far more people are going to choose to get vaccinated than go through the trouble of forging a vaccine card. From what I have read the number of hard-core anti vaxers is small. It has been encouraging to see the vaccination rate going back up this week.
The bigger problem are states that outlaw proof of vaccination and other precautions. But if proof of vaccination is required for airline travel etc it will encourage people in those states to get the vaccine as well.
#237Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 4:13pm
New update: https://broadwaynews.com/2021/07/29/broadway-league-actors-equity-set-safety-protocols-vaccine-mandate-for-broadway-casts/#.YQMLjfDTFGc.link
you found your heart but left a part of you behind <3
#238Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 4:20pm
Thank you. Now bring on the masks!
Oh look, a bibu!
BroadwayRox3588
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/5/16
#239Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 4:34pm
Jordan Levinson said: "Thank you. Now bring on the masks!"
I'm assuming you mean just for audience members. It'd be pretty tough for actors to wear masks onstage.
#240Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 4:36pmIf there’s a mask mandate, i’ll tell you exactly what’s going to happen based on what i saw in the UK - The rules will be that you must wear a mask, except when eating or drinking so that will mean that people will sit in their seats, mask down, holding a cup in their hand the entire show, so they don’t have to have their mask on.
#241Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 4:38pm
Jordan Catalano said: "If there’s a mask mandate, i’ll tell you exactly what’s going to happen based on what i saw in the UK - The rules will be that you must wear a mask, except when eating or drinking so that will mean that people will sit in their seats, mask down, holding a cup in their hand the entire show, so they don’t have to have their mask on."
So make sure you tip the folks at the concession stands and bars!
kade.ivy
Broadway Star Joined: 7/28/13
#243Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 4:44pm
kade.ivy said: "These new guidelines seem quite workable and based on the science.
I’m still pro-vax requirement/anti-mask mandate for audiences, but we’ll see where we are come fall. "
Completely agree with you on all accounts
you found your heart but left a part of you behind <3
BroadwayRox3588
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/5/16
#244Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 4:47pm
We'll see where we end up with masks. I'll be wearing one, regardless of the rules. I still expect them to be required during August/September, based on what the mayor said during his briefing today, teasing new mask guidelines coming out next week.
#245Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 4:58pm
Bear in mind that the mayor is like the wicked witch to the governor's glinda: he has no power here.
VintageSnarker
Broadway Legend Joined: 1/30/15
#246Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 5:19pm
jlindsey865 said: "The only way out of this pandemic is using science as evidence."
The science says vaccines may only be 60% effective 4-6 months after your second dose, especially as new variants gain traction. The science says you can still spread covid if you're vaccinated and wearing masks. The science says even having a "mild" case of covid may have longterm neurological and respiratory effects. The science says that covid is much more dangerous than the flu.
But people in this thread don't want to hear it. To clarify, I think everyone should be vaccinated and wearing masks. But pretending it makes you completely safe and that you can happily go to restaurants and sit in close quarters (like a theater) without any risk of contracting covid or spreading it to others is being in denial. I want to go to the theater again too. But I am aware that if I do, it will be a calculated risk and I am perfectly willing to cancel any tickets I purchase if things worsen in the fall.
BroadwayRox3588
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/5/16
#247Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 5:22pm
Nothing comes with zero risk. Unless you want to stay at home all the time (which I would not advise), everything you do will come with some risk of contracting or spreading Covid. As I keep saying, we all need to learn how to live with this virus, and figure out how to stop it from dominating our lives. That is also what the science says.
And to another point, I think most people in this thread are trying to balance fear with reason, and not let the former take precedence over the latter.
#248Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 5:27pm
VintageSnarker said: "jlindsey865 said: "The only way out of this pandemic is using science as evidence."
The science says vaccines may only be 60% effective 4-6 months after your second dose, especially as new variants gain traction. The science says you can still spread covid if you're vaccinated and wearing masks. The science says even having a "mild" case of covid may have longterm neurological and respiratory effects. The science says that covid is much more dangerous than the flu.
But people in this thread don't want to hear it. To clarify, I think everyone should be vaccinated and wearing masks. But pretending it makes you completely safe and that you can happily go to restaurants and sit in close quarters (like a theater) without any risk of contracting covid or spreading it to others is being in denial. I want to go to the theater again too. But I am aware that if I do, it will be a calculated risk and I am perfectly willing to cancel any tickets I purchase if things worsen in the fall."
I do know that breakthrough cases are a thing and that some studies show that vaccinated people can transmit the virus, but if you are vaccinated, the chances of ending up sick enough to be in the hospital (or worse, death) are virtually zero. I haven't read any scientific evidence re: your other statements.
What I do know that is that the vaccines are extremely effective in managing COVID - not necessarily eliminating it. I continue to be in the camp of "If you are vaccinated, you shouldn't have to wear a mask."
However, if Broadway theaters (or any other establishment) were to implement a mask mandate, I would certainly comply (and complain about it to my dog once I got home).
#249Delta Variant and Broadway
Posted: 7/29/21 at 5:44pm
BroadwayRox3588 said: "Nothing comes with zero risk. Unless you want to stay at home all the time (which I would not advise), everything you do will come with some risk of contracting or spreading Covid. As I keep saying, we all need to learn how to live with this virus, and figure out how to stop it from dominating our lives. That is also what the science says.
And to another point, I think most people in this thread are trying to balance fear with reason, and not let the former take precedence over the latter."
I agree with everything in this post.
