Bruce Jenner Interview- Page 9

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 2:22pm

Are you suggesting that because of this we, including Mr. Rorke, shouldn't examine the financial motivations/exploitations behind the transition? 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 2:27pm

Ugh, putting Jenner on the same level as someone like Ellen just honest to God makes my stomach turn. 

[Tag]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 2:27pm

I just think people need realize this is much bigger than that.  Who cares if she is making money (Bruce wasn't hurting for money before this btw).  One magazine cover yesterday morning probably did more for trans awareness in the US and worldwide than anything ever before.

[Tag]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 2:28pm

Updated On: 6/3/15 at 02:28 PM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 2:35pm

When a group is so severely lacking for representation, they'll take anyone to lift up and turn into a hero. That's what's happening here. Honestly, if Paris Hilton decided she was trans tomorrow, she'd no longer be a national joke and would be instantly celebrated and turned into a national treasure. 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 2:40pm

Jordan, I can see you disagree with my suggestion that it's a bit more complicated than that and while you're right about the tacky as hell capitalism, the other is also true.  YES, trans people are quite limited in what gets the culture talking about their issues.

Now, was the RandBandRand asking that question about the financial motives of Jenner at ME?  Right after I posted:

I agree with calling out what appear to be the entirely bass-ackwards priorities of the coverage and the whole management of the transition into an income stream by a person who is nothing but a media personality.

Because if so, wow.

 

Updated On: 6/3/15 at 02:40 PM

[Tag]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 2:43pm

Jordan I don't know of what generation you were born, but Bruce Jenner was already a "hero" to a generation who's view on trans people is different from people growing up today.     And barring all the Olympic success, Bruce is/was the patriarch of one of the most popular and visible families in America (like it or not).  I don't see how you can compare this to Paris Hilton.  It's in a different league. 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 2:52pm

Look, there's just so much it's been pissing me off the past couple of days about this. According to the media, everyone is either trans phobic or if you talk about her appearance, you're a sexist and proving that all men care about is looks. If Miss Caitlyn (that's Caitlyn with a "C"!) didn't want the world to look at her body, she would have taken some iPhone pictures of herself on the couch watching tv instead of dressing like a damn playboy bunny and getting a world renowned photographer to shoot it. 

And Tag, trust me I know all about who Jenner was. I grew up with him as a national hero and had many a funny feeling down there watching him. But that was a long time ago. People change (no pun intended). The Jenner of today's "Jenneration" (I just copywrote that BTW) is not to be held to the same standard and, like Paris Hilton, a media whore. 

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 3:04pm

According to the media, everyone is either trans phobic or if you talk about her appearance, you're a sexist and proving that all men care about is looks.

 

What media are you consuming?  There's a lot more nuanced discussion out there. 

Updated On: 6/3/15 at 03:04 PM

[Tag]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 3:08pm

Well how else was she supposed to do this, when she already has such a public spotlight on her?  Through TMZ and Perez Hilton paparazzi shots and gossip?  She got ahead of the game.  And that's smart.  And those extremes that you mention (Playboy-like Leibovitz cover shoots) are exactly what is making the mainstream impact that this community needs.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 3:25pm

Yeah...I think that's a flattening of the many varied conversations now taking place.  And I totally understand the complicated feelings surrounding someone who is part of a publicity machine.  But all things can be at least partly true, know what I'm saying?

[NYadgal]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 3:30pm

Absolutely.

And I want to voice agreement with the statements Namo made earlier:

However, what I can't deny is the visibility this brings to an issue that gets no serious coverage at all in the American mainstream.  A MAJOR ATHLETE has put the very notion of gender identity on the front burner of American pop culture.  Almost in spite of herself.

This opens the door for all sorts of discussions in all sorts of communities that may never have considered the gender continuum.

Opening this door is vital.

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 3:35pm

Now, was the RandBandRand asking that question about the financial motives of Jenner at ME?

It's pretty clear that I was directing those posts at Tag.

Opening this door is vital.

But just because one opens a door to a national conversation, does that mean they are suddenly off-limits to possible scrutiny and criticism (if warranted)? 

I think Jordan is trying to suggest that there are two separate conversations here, which I also agree with. As does the Post's Robert Rorke. One can cheer and applaud and support the courage and bravery while also questioning the motivations, exploitation, and intentions behind such a move. 

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 3:37pm

Actually, it's clear that no one wants to engage you from your previous attempts to goad...which, as a casual observer, seems to be your main goal on this board.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 3:38pm

I'm just glad I don't have any issue with any of this, because it keeps me from being the same company as people who comment on Free Republic and on NY Post articles. 

[NYadgal]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 3:41pm

But just because one opens a door to a national conversation, does that mean they are suddenly off-limits to possible scrutiny and criticism (if warranted)? 

Not at all.

But, in my opinion, the fact that the door is open and the conversation can take place FAR outweighs any perceived negativity about the motivations, exploitation and intentions that some ascribe to this turn of events.  

Updated On: 6/3/15 at 03:41 PM

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 4:25pm

Fair enough, Addy. 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 4:26pm

Which I had personally posted twice.

[Kad]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 4:40pm

Of course this was a very capitalist way to come out. Capitalist ways of doing things are the only effective way *to* do things in a capitalist society.

It's a systemic and cultural problem and a discussion worth having. But I think having that discussion at the expense of the fact that a paragon of American masculinity is now a woman gracing the cover of an iconic magazine is not seeing the forest for the trees.

Updated On: 6/3/15 at 04:40 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 4:43pm

Beautifully put.

[javero]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 5:29pm

Focusing on the purely frivolous for a moment, Caitlyn has completely upstaged her relatively famous daughter.  With news about to break of Kimmie possibly expecting twins, Caitlyn seemed keen to get a nose out ahead of his stepdaughter's PR juggernaut.  Thank goodness she didn't pick the name Kaitlyn. 

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 5:35pm

"One can cheer and applaud and support the courage and bravery while also questioning the motivations, exploitation, and intentions behind such a move. "

One can, but one can also seem churlish rushing to do so while everyone else is marveling at the good being done. Naysaying can be a necessary corrective, but it can also be an easy, cynical attempt to seem smarter than everyone else by attempting to make everyone else seem stupid. 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 5:43pm

Like when the 'Rand had to break the news that Lettetman was a "womanizer" in my farewell Dave thread. I guess "churlish" is the operative word. 

[Liza's Headband]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 8:33pm

I wasn't breaking the news because you already knew all too well of his disgusting past behavior. I was just there to remind you of it, since you seem to put blinders on when it suits you best or when the issue surrounds an individual you happen to view in a favorable way. Letterman is a homophobic womanizer. His past actions (and bigotry and rhetoric and quietly-settled harassment lawsuits) speak much louder than any petty words he's offered "in support" of us and "in support" of women's rights on a few television episodes over the two freaking decades. Puhlease. 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/3/15 at 8:45pm

"I wasn't breaking the news because you already knew all too well of his disgusting past behavior. I was just there to remind you of it"

How edifying for you.