"A New Deal For Broadway" abolishes all-white creative teams; includes commitments from Shubert, Nederlander, Jujamcyn to each rename theatres after a Black Artist- Page 4

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 8/25/21 at 12:57am

Nothing to add but Michael Yeargan’s work is clunky at best. Haha w oh

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 8/25/21 at 12:57am

Nothing to add but Michael Yeargan’s work is clunky at best. Haha w oh

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 8/25/21 at 12:59am

Nothing to add but Michael Yeargan’s work is clunky at best. And I’d love to see more shows directed by new people and not the same Michael’s (Mayer and Greif)

[bk]

Posted: 8/25/21 at 4:45am

Kad said: "bk said: "LightsOut90 said: "Kad said: "I think renaming of the theaters is easily the least substantive of the things in the document.

Abolishing all-white creative teams is a massive and important commitment."



which has zero legal enforceability and is highly unlikely to happen

"

Exactly. If an all-white creative team is the best team, that's it. If an all Black creative team is the best team, that's it. All Asian, great. Whatever. But abolish. No. And I don't care who has signed onto it. No one is going to force you to hire based on this kind of thing. The theaters will find out exactly how enforceable this is the minute a powerhouse show with a powerhouse produceris available with an all-white creative team. Every new play opening on B'way this season, as far as I've read, is written by a person of color. Every one. And I think that color is the same color. So, should other minorities be up in arms about that?"

Glad that you pulled your headout of the tar pits to issue this proclamation from the Pleistoceneera."

Glad to see you're the same usual Kad, Kad. Really. Not.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 8/25/21 at 11:15am

The people arguing that white women yield similar power as white men on Broadway need to have their heads examined. None of the theatre owner chains are controlled by women; the vast majority of directors have been white men; there are few prominent agents who are women. Yes the recent Best Musical winners have had a decent representation of female Lead Producers, but Broadway's most prolific Lead Producers are white men (with occasional exceptions).

Music departments are just as bad (with, again, a few exceptions). Not just the orchestra players, but the music directors/supervisors, arrangers, orchestrators, and above all the contractors. There's still this weird idea perpetuated by the classical music/opera world that a conductor should be a man in a tuxedo.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/25/21 at 12:10pm

It is certainly true that there are very few positions in which women have equal or even reasonable representation. Producer is a category that come close to being an exception, not just for musicals but for plays. And this includes Broadway nonprofits.

[JGPR2]

Posted: 8/25/21 at 7:51pm

"that said- arent there a bunch of theaters named after no one? The Marquis Theater is named after an object and/or a hotel. The Imperial, the Broadway, the Music Box, the Broadhurst. the Majestic- all seem long overdue for name upgrades (especially The Broadway, which as someone pointed out above, is particularly ridiculous)"

Is there some rule that a theater has to be named after someone?  I am actually surprised theaters have not done the same as sports stadiums and sold the naming rights of the theater for big dollars.  Just think, you could have theater like The Imperial change their name to the "American Airlines Theater" -lol.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 8/25/21 at 8:59pm

JGPR2 said: "Is there some rule that a theater has to be named after someone? I am actually surprised theaters have not done the same as sports stadiums and sold the naming rights of the theater for big dollars. Just think, you could have theater like The Imperial change their name to the "American Airlines Theater" -lol."

Are you being facetious? 

[JGPR2]

Posted: 8/25/21 at 9:05pm

"JGPR2 said: "Is there some rule that a theater has to be named after someone? I am actually surprised theaters have not done the same as sports stadiums and sold the naming rights of the theater for big dollars. Just think, you could have theater like The Imperial change their name to the "American Airlines Theater" -lol."

Are you being facetious? "

Yes !!!

[joevitus]

Posted: 8/25/21 at 10:41pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "The people arguing that white women yield similar power as white men on Broadway need to have their heads examined. None of the theatre owner chains are controlled by women; the vast majority of directors have been white men; there are few prominent agents who are women. Yes the recent Best Musical winners have had a decent representation of female Lead Producers, but Broadway's most prolific Lead Producersare white men (with occasional exceptions).

Music departments are just as bad(with, again, a fewexceptions). Not just the orchestra players, but the music directors/supervisors, arrangers, orchestrators, and above all the contractors.There's still this weird idea perpetuated by theclassical music/opera world that a conductor should be a man in a tuxedo."

The "people," which is me, never made that claim. But there are powerful women directors who decide what their team is going to be and who they work with, and there are powerful creators of color like Lin Manuel Miranda who have a say in the teams that produce their work. If there are no Black people on the creative teams of Broadway, it's as much their fault as anyone else. (Of course, there may be Black people on creative teams on Broadway, so the whole argument is fraudulent to begin with.) Pretending that all these wonderful white women and people of color are doing everything they can, but mean old white men are standing in their way is just utter nonsense. 

It's a nice comic strip vision of the world, though, that makes sure not to cast aspersions on a perceived "our people" while finding a convenient "those people" to attack. 

[unclevictor]

Posted: 8/25/21 at 11:43pm

joevitus said: "ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "The people arguing that white women yield similar power as white men on Broadway need to have their heads examined. None of the theatre owner chains are controlled by women; the vast majority of directors have been white men; there are few prominent agents who are women. Yes the recent Best Musical winners have had a decent representation of female Lead Producers, but Broadway's most prolific Lead Producersare white men (with occasional exceptions).

Music departments are just as bad(with, again, a fewexceptions). Not just the orchestra players, but the music directors/supervisors, arrangers, orchestrators, and above all the contractors.There's still this weird idea perpetuated by theclassical music/opera world that a conductor should be a man in a tuxedo."

The "people," which is me, never made that claim. But there are powerful women directors who decide what their team is going to be and who they work with, and there are powerful creators of color like Lin Manuel Miranda who have a say in the teams that produce their work. If there are no Black people on the creative teams of Broadway, it's as much their fault as anyone else. (Of course, there may be Black people on creative teams on Broadway, so the whole argument is fraudulent to begin with.)Pretending that all these wonderful white women and people of color are doing everything they can, but mean old white men are standing in their way is just utter nonsense.

It's a nice comic strip vision of the world, though, that makes sure not to cast aspersions on a perceived "ourpeople" while finding a convenient "those people" toattack."

Old white men ARE STANDING IN THEIR WAY. U clearly don’t work in the theatre, or u wouldn’t have written that utterly craptastic statement. 
Open a US history book and start from the beginning. Don’t stop reading.

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 8/25/21 at 11:57pm

For what it is worth, my best friend got his career as a black man on Broadway on the creative side because he is black. They literally told him in his interview we are doing a “black show” and need you on this side of the table. That was 2018.

[A Director]

Posted: 8/26/21 at 12:20am

joevitus said: The "people," which is me, never made that claim. But there are powerful women directors who decide what their team is going to be and who they work with, and there are powerful creators of color like Lin Manuel Miranda who have a say in the teams that produce their work. If there are no Black people on the creative teams of Broadway, it's as much their fault as anyone else. (Of course, there may be Black people on creative teams on Broadway, so the whole argument is fraudulent to begin with.)Pretending that all these wonderful white women and people of color are doing everything they can, but mean old white men are standing in their way is just utter nonsense.

Ah, yes, you are  playing the old racist model minority game where one minority is played off another minority group.  It's the game racists have played for centuries. One version is "if Lin-Manuel Miranda can do it, why can't you?" Another version goes, "If there are no Black people on creative teams of Broadway, it's as much their fault as anyone else." Your comment is a perfect example of BLAME THE VICTIM! Wow, Joe, you play both versions in the same post.  JOE, YOU'RE A RACIST.

In commet #56 posted 8/24.21 1:42pm, you said, "I totally support more diversity, but let's be real: if it isn't voluntary, it isn't going to happen. Considering the money involved, nobody is going to jeopardize the future of a Broadway show to employ someone whose skills/talents they aren't as pleased by/assured of just to satisfy some arbitrary criteria." Ah, yes, old racist game of implying a person of color was hired not because of their skills, but because of their skin color.  Joe, you are a Grand Master of this game. JOE, YOU"RE A RACIST!

You tell people they are living in a cartoon world. Ha! Joe, you say you support diversity, but it is clear you support diversity on YOUR terms. How white of you. JOE, YOU'RE A RACIST!

 

 

 

[joevitus]

Posted: 8/26/21 at 1:16am

LOL Lin Manuel Miranda is a victim. Sure. Sure. So, I guess, is Oprah, who helped produced The Color Purple. Nope. If there haven't been Black members of the creative team on Broadway, as is being asserted, that is not just the fault of white men. It's the fault of everyone of either sex and all races who are in charge of various Broadway shows.

Nope not a racist. Just know you can't force this. I have zero power on Broadway, so zero is being done "on my terms." What a silly statement. But easier to invent a cartoon image of me, or decide only white men are refusing to hire Black talent (if in fact white men are refusing to do this--I still haven't seen this demonstrated) that to deal with the reality of how Broadway shows are mounted.

[joevitus]

Posted: 8/26/21 at 1:23am

unclevictor said: "joevitus said: "ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "The people arguing that white women yield similar power as white men on Broadway need to have their heads examined. None of the theatre owner chains are controlled by women; the vast majority of directors have been white men; there are few prominent agents who are women. Yes the recent Best Musical winners have had a decent representation of female Lead Producers, but Broadway's most prolific Lead Producersare white men (with occasional exceptions).

Music departments are just as bad(with, again, a fewexceptions). Not just the orchestra players, but the music directors/supervisors, arrangers, orchestrators, and above all the contractors.There's still this weird idea perpetuated by theclassical music/opera world that a conductor should be a man in a tuxedo."

The "people," which is me, never made that claim. But there are powerful women directors who decide what their team is going to be and who they work with, and there are powerful creators of color like Lin Manuel Miranda who have a say in the teams that produce their work. If there are no Black people on the creative teams of Broadway, it's as much their fault as anyone else. (Of course, there may be Black people on creative teams on Broadway, so the whole argument is fraudulent to begin with.)Pretending that all these wonderful white women and people of color are doing everything they can, but mean old white men are standing in their way is just utter nonsense.

It's a nice comic strip vision of the world, though, that makes sure not to cast aspersions on a perceived "ourpeople" while finding a convenient "those people" toattack."

Old white men ARE STANDING IN THEIR WAY. U clearly don’t work in the theatre, or u wouldn’t have written that utterlycraptastic statement.
Open a US history book and start from the beginning. Don’t stop reading."

Cure. You've got to pretend I don't know history. Will history books tell me if Susan Stroman a man? If she's a woman, and she doesn't hire Black people on her creative team, she's part of the problem. Same for Julie Taymor. Susan H. Schulman. This pretense racism is only practiced by white men and always practiced by white men shows you're the one who needs to crack a history book, dear. Life is so far from simple.

 

[JasonC3]

Posted: 8/26/21 at 4:30am

Some CEOs start to work harder on building pipelines and pathways for diverse talent when their bonuses and stock options are tied to metrics for doing so.

Just about any type of change can be "forced" through either carrots or sticks or some combo of both, so long as they are legal.

When it is or is not desirable to do so (and how) is an entirely different question.

But if enough deep pocketed producers say they will only invest in shows where people of color are at least X% of the creative team, it would be a powerful incentive for that to happen.

That's just one example of course of the leverage that could be applied.

[JGPR2]

Posted: 8/26/21 at 8:49am

"But if enough deep pocketed producers say they will only invest in shows where people of color are at least X% of the creative team, it would be a powerful incentive for that to happen."

So what is the magical percentage of POC that should be on all creative teams? Is 25% enough or maybe it should be 50%? How long before that percentage does not make you happy and there are demands to make it higher?  I kind of think deep pocketed investors don't give a damn what color the creative team of the show is going to be, they are worried about their investment. In other words, hire anybody you think will make the show better and return my investment in the show which at best is risky in most cases.

Updated On: 8/26/21 at 08:49 AM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/26/21 at 11:07am

The combination of blatant, oblivious, and systemic racism in this thread is very disheartening but it is also very instructive in terms of what is needed on several levels.

[binau]

Posted: 8/26/21 at 1:37pm

I wonder if there are any new all-white creative team shows scheduled to open who feel a bit nervous of a social media backlash (but clearly all decisions would have been made earlier than this). Hope people can be a little forgiving in the short-term...change come slow. We may need some of these shows to survive opening in a pandemic :). 

 

[JasonC3]

Posted: 8/26/21 at 1:38pm

JGPR2 said: ""But if enough deep pocketed producers say they will only invest in shows where people of color are at least X% of the creative team, it would be a powerful incentive for that to happen."

So what is the magical percentage of POC that should be on all creative teams? Is 25% enough or maybe it should be 50%?How long before that percentage does not make you happy and there are demands to make it higher? I kind of think deep pocketed investors don't give a damn what color the creative team of the show is going to be, they are worried about their investment. In other words, hire anybody you think will make the show better and return my investment in the show which at best is risky in most cases."

The specific percentage is not the point, but your defensiveness is telling. The point is to have defined metrics for which people can be held accountable. Saying "we're committed to diversity" without any elaboration is less likely to move the needle than "we're committed to having at least X% our creative teams on average consisting of BIPOC talent."

There is a movement to make the performing arts diverse. Ample research exists demonstrating that diverse teams make better decisions. The composition of casts and creative teams is under increased scrutiny. Whose stories get told is a concern. The future of the nation is a non-white majority.

So whether it is done for moral reasons (which would be mine) or financial reasons or both, looking at how well a production performs on DEI-related metrics would be a strategic choice aligned with the current environment.

I find it hard to believe that some in this thread see that as a controversial statement.

Updated On: 8/26/21 at 01:38 PM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/26/21 at 2:07pm

JasonC3 said: "I find it hard to believe that some in this thread see that as a controversial statement."

The etiology of a majority of the controversies in 2021 America is seeded in your statements. The notion that "melting pot" does not just refer to Irish and Italian [etc] immigrants is freaking out a lot of people for whom white privilege and systemic racism was baked into their culture. 

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 8/26/21 at 2:47pm

If some of the people in this thread were business owners or educational leaders in the mid-20th century, the effort towards finding reasons to not even try because of whatever convenient "reasons" would've kept the nation from breaking open doors for POC in the workplace and education. Have we learned nothing about visibility and inclusivity? Unreal. 

[Kad]

Posted: 8/26/21 at 3:38pm

I find the “only the BEST person for the job should get it” argument (already a rather empty argument, as it is common knowledge that the best person for a job does not always get it for any number of reasons) leads to an important question: why have so few non-white (and non-male) people been the best person for the job?

[ViniFromBrazil]

Posted: 8/26/21 at 4:03pm

What I think will happen is that, instead of having black people unemploying all-white creative team members, there will be one or two more black people "added" to the team so it appears to be inclusive, or "more inclusive". I don't believe white people will throw their work in the trash because of it, nor do I think white people will lose their jobs in the theater all of a sudden.

There are some points in this initiative that are still questionable like, if black creative artists are not only working but also getting paid as much as white ones, or if there are enough anti-racism initiatives in the industry to not only welcome but also shelter black talent, but to me it seems like an idea that will open the doors to black people, more than will shut down doors to white ones. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/26/21 at 4:18pm

Kad said: "I find the “only the BEST person for the job should get it” argument (already a rather empty argument, as it is common knowledge that the best person for a job does not always get it for any number of reasons) leads to an important question: why have so few non-white (and non-male) people been the best person for the job?"

Another thing to recognize is that we are talking about art. What is the definition of "best" in that context? [Hint: there is no such thing as best in art. Is William Ivey Long or Jane Greenwood or Dede Ayite {and so on...} the "best" costume designer?] When we hire based on self-replicating standards of "best" we degrade. I encourage those who are showing their seams in this thread to eschew all of these terrible notions of systemic racism so that we can have the truly "best" theatre our collective creative juices can muster.