Broadway Journal: Water for Elephants running cost $960,000 per week

[DaveyG]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 5:38pm

Per Philip Boroff:

"Scheduled to open March 21, 2024, at the Imperial Theatre, it will need to sell at least $960,000 of tickets each week to cover operating expenses, according to an internal budget prepared over the summer and reviewed by Broadway Journal."

Insanity. 

 

[pablitonizer]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 7:05pm

DaveyG said: "Per Philip Boroff:

"Scheduled to open March 21, 2024, at the Imperial Theatre, it will need to sell at least $960,000 of tickets each week to cover operating expenses, according to an internal budget prepared over the summer and reviewed by Broadway Journal."

Insanity.

"

LOL

 

I'm not a fortune teller but I said before this musical will follow the same fate that Life of Pi did. I hope I'm wrong though

[BETTY22]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 7:12pm

Philip Boroff is a great reporter. I love seeing these internal numbers.

In the same story he has great $$$ deals on Cabaret and Back To The Future.

 

[QueenTwinnied]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 7:13pm

Yeah after seeing the show, this doesn’t surprise me at all. Between the large cast of circus performers, puppeteers, aerialists, etc, I expected this would be a costly show. 

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 7:28pm

Insert meme of The Joker setting a pile of cash on fire 🔥 

[Broadway Flash]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 8:14pm

Wow I’m hoping for some high production values!

[nativenewyorker2]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 9:04pm

Is this just The Notebook but set in a circus?

[Bobster159]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 9:29pm

Whilst Elephants is eye-watering, it's also kind of amazing that Gutenberg is costing nearly $650K. I'm sure the stars are getting a decent chunk, but it shows just how expensive it is to turn the lights on in a Broadway theater these days (and advertise the fact you've turned the lights on!).

[RentBoy86]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 9:50pm

Is this like a massive set or just a giant cast? This is kind of insane. Like how Cabaret cast $55m. That’s insane. I guess they’re expecting it to be a huge hit.. but if you crunch the numbers Back to the Future is barely hanging on. 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 10:08pm

RentBoy86 said: "Is this like a massive set or just a giant cast? This is kind of insane."

In very basic and broad terms:

The weekly running cost ($960K) is:
- salaries of the people involved with the show (actors, SMs, orchestra, stagehands, service providers)
- royalties to the creative team and underlying rightsholders
- equipment rentals
- theatre expenses
- a per-week advertising budget
- incidental expenses (everything from dry cleaning, Covid testing, physical therapy, rehearsing understudies)

The Capitalization ($25MM) is:
- physical production costs (set/costumes)
- development costs (out of town production, workshops)
- rehearsal & tech salaries
- Fees to the creative/production team, general management, legal expenses, etc.
- any advertising & publicity costs occurring prior to the start of previews
- opening night party & gifts
- a $3 million cash reserve for Water for Elephants (to be dipped into if the show loses money certain weeks, goes over on the set, etc)

Updated On: 11/6/23 at 10:08 PM

[BroadwayRox3588]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 10:16pm

I didn't think Broadway shows were doing regular covid testing anymore.

Or, rather, I hoped they weren't.

Updated On: 11/6/23 at 10:16 PM

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 10:50pm

They aren't doing it regularly right now (though could start up again if warranted), I was merely throwing out an example of incidental expenses that could pop up for a show.

[QueenTwinnied]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 10:51pm

I’m by no means an expert at estimating set costs, but I would guess the W4E set is more expensive than most on Broadway now. Lots of different scene changes with unique sets. A whole song involves setting up a physical big top on stage. I’m sure the Elephant puppet wasn’t cheap. 
 

The cast is pretty big. Normal size principal cast alongside some regular ensemble and then lots of trained circus performers.  I checked my program from the show and counted 28 total cast members. 

Updated On: 11/6/23 at 10:51 PM

[jkcohen626]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 11:26pm

QueenTwinnied said: "I’m by no means an expert at estimating set costs, but I would guess the W4E set is more expensive than most on Broadway now. Lots of different scene changes with unique sets. A whole song involves setting up a physical big top on stage. I’m sure the Elephant puppet wasn’t cheap.


The cast is pretty big. Normal size principal cast alongside some regular ensemble and then lots of trained circus performers. I checked my program from the show and counted 28 total cast members."

My guess would be that they have pretty inflated salaries too. I would guess that the circus performers get paid more than typical ensemble members just for having the specialties and the extra training that's required and I wouldn't be surprised if the whole cast gets danger pay. 

[BroadwayBen]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 11:46pm

I don't understand all the shock people have at producers wanting to spend a lot of money to create big, exciting shows.  It always happens, and occasionally one is a huge success which inspires others.   My guess is that they are hoping that, like Moulin, "Elephants" can eventually be produced around the world, so they're investing a lot in this production.   Sometimes it works (Disney shows, Wicked, Moulin), sometimes it doesn't (Here Lies Love, King Kong, Rocky.).    And when producers spend little on a show (Doll's House) everyone here gets equally uptight.   

[BroadwayRox3588]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 11:46pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "They aren't doing it regularly right now (though could start up again if warranted), I was merely throwing out an example of incidental expenses that could pop up for a show."

Fair enough.

I'll keep the rest of my comment to myself LOL

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 11/7/23 at 12:52am

BroadwayBen said: "I don't understand all the shock people have at producers wanting to spend a lot of money to create big, exciting shows. It always happens, and occasionally one is a huge success which inspires others. My guess is that they are hoping that, like Moulin, "Elephants" can eventually be produced around the world, so they're investing a lot in this production. Sometimes it works (Disney shows, Wicked, Moulin), sometimes it doesn't (Here Lies Love, King Kong, Rocky.). And when producers spend little on a show (Doll's House) everyone here gets equally uptight."

I think the concern about WFE has multiple layers:

1) Above all, it's shock about the reality of the situation. The value of a dollar being less than what it was just a few years ago. $25 mil for this show vs $19 mil for SUFFS is not that big a difference.

2) We all have recent memories of big-budget financial failures (Bad Cin, New York New York, Here Lies Love).

3) There's a lack of trust in the IP (which can sometimes work in its favor, like Kinky Boots...or it could end up like Tuck Everlasting). It doesn't have the built-in brand of Disney or Moulin Rouge or Oz.

4) A $25 million proof-of-concept for a show that MIGHT have future life on the road or internationally is a huge risk. Yes, those subsequent productions generate royalties, but they trickle slowly, and each requires its own capitalization.

5) Bigger does now always equal better. Something like PIPPIN delivered wows and played worldwide at a fraction of this budget.

This doesn't mean it can't succeed. We all love a success story. The odds are just stacked against it.

Updated On: 11/7/23 at 12:52 AM

[uncageg]

Posted: 11/7/23 at 2:41am

nativenewyorker2 said: "Is this just The Notebook but set in a circus?"

 

No.

 

[Impeach2017]

Posted: 11/7/23 at 4:47am

Will there be live animals?

[dramamama611]

Posted: 11/7/23 at 6:56am

I'm far more interested in this show far more than The Notebook, which I find to be crappy rom-com shlock, this includes the book and the film.

Just like I think composers need to be more realistic in writing scores (so the need of an alternate or voice damage is nil) I think designers/producers need to find more creative ways to fulfill their vision... More is not always better.

And the cost is going to become even further prohibitive to many.

 

 

[Kad]

Posted: 11/7/23 at 8:43am

jkcohen626 said: "QueenTwinnied said: "I’m by no means an expert at estimating set costs, but I would guess the W4E set is more expensive than most on Broadway now. Lots of different scene changes with unique sets. A whole song involves setting up a physical big top on stage. I’m sure the Elephant puppet wasn’t cheap.


The cast is pretty big. Normal size principal cast alongside some regular ensemble and then lots of trained circus performers. I checked my program from the show and counted 28 total cast members."

My guess would be that they have pretty inflated salaries too. I would guess that the circus performers get paid more than typical ensemble members just for having the specialties and the extra training that's required and I wouldn't be surprised if the whole cast gets danger pay."

Yes, anyone involved in any stunt work or featured ensemble moments would be paid more. It’s not like… substantially more, but it’s more. 

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 11/7/23 at 10:03am

The circus/stunt work will also have a significant effect on the insurance premiums the producers pay for their workers comp coverage, especially after the high profile incidents at shows like Spider-Man, The Little Mermaid, and KÀ (Cirque, not Kimberly Akimbo).

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 11/7/23 at 10:27am

The crazy part of that broadway journal piece is the revelation that Wickeds costs have ballooned to a million dollars. Just boggles my mind. I’m curious if most of that is spent on marketing. 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 11/7/23 at 11:05am

Call_me_jorge said: "The crazy part of that broadway journal piece is the revelation that Wickeds costs have ballooned to a million dollars. Just boggles my mind. I’m curious if most of that is spent on marketing."

It's got 43 in the cast and 24 in the orchestra, plus a vast crew and a whole host of people on payroll to maintain quality control of the show. I wouldn't expect marketing costs higher than most other shows (and they're probably lower than some new shows since the brand is out there already). It's a huge undertaking.

[bwaydreamer]

Posted: 11/7/23 at 11:59am

Bobster159 said: "Whilst Elephants is eye-watering, it's also kind of amazing that Gutenberg is costing nearly $650K. I'm sure the stars are getting a decent chunk, but it shows just how expensive it is to turn the lights on in a Broadway theater these days (and advertise the fact you've turned the lights on!)."

 

Gutenberg is $650K!!?!? That is wild!  I'm sure the two of them are making around 100k a week but where is the other $450K coming from?  In the end I think it was a good gamble because they are making almost a million a week but wow that is high for a two man show.