Casting without Considering Appearance — Page 3

Madbrian's point is the most salient, IMO. There are certain roles where a certain characteristic--be it race, gender, look, height, weight, etc--is integral to the character. In such cases, the part should be cast with an appropriate actor who fits those characteristics. Aside from that, if there is nothing that would prevent the character being played by an actor of any race, or any time, or any size, then I don't have a problem. The lines blur a bit case by case, of course, but in principal that's what I think works best.

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But if a white actor plays a black role, hell breaks loose.

Why is that?

It's not about art and it's not about tolerance.

It's about economics and simple fairness. Minority actors already have fewer roles at their disposal; to take away even those roles in the name of "color-blind casting" is simply wrong.

Now things may change if someday all or nearly all casting is done without regard to race; but we are still a long way from that day.

This whole "race thing" is getting extremely one sided. That needs to stop.

Amen, Carlos. The truth is the vast majority of theater artists in every area are unemployed most of the time. Resenting minority artists because once in awhile they catch a break is dishonest and unfair.

And the assertions that minorities will react with violence if they don't get the part they think they deserve is ridiculous. We have plenty of examples on this board of minority members being quite gracious about unfair casting.

I think the problem is that white people notice if a role is reserved for actors of color. The same white people don't notice that 90% of roles are reserved (even if "unofficially") for white actors.

Personally, I don't think affirmative action has worked against me as a white man very often. But on the few occasions where it did, I had to assume there were countless more instances where being white and male gave ME the unfair advantage. So I didn't waste any time feeling resentful.

About Tiana, I am from Europe yes, and you are right, that subject is not such a big deal over here. It seems like a lot of African-American people over here are much more colorblind already.

For example, the girl that voiced Tiana here was not black and no one cared. She was great. I suppose it would have been a big problem if that happened in the USA.......

When it comes to casting, I think only the film/the end product counts. For example, Linda Larkin, a white blonde voiced princess Jasmine in Aladdin. She was great. Who says a role like that is reserved for Arabian-Americans? Who cares that Arabian-Americans are not usually cast for white roles? That may sound hard, but when it comes to casting, people should not care about minorities and personal issues. The end product is all that counts.

For all I care a 50 year old man can voice a little black girl, if he is the best at the voice test.

As an actor "of size", it really offends me when skinny actors are made to wear fat suits, like the actor who played Nicely-Nicely in the last (awful)Guys and Dolls revival.

There's nothing in the script that says the character must be fat. Skinny actor Walter Bobbie played it quite well in the (wonderful) 1992 version. But if the director is so set on having a fat Nicely-Nicely, then damn it, cast a fat actor!

I think "minority" has nothing to do with casting. Casting directors should erase that word from their minds. They should always go for the best person.

Dave, you throw around the word "best" as if it had an objective meaning on which we can all agree when it comes to casting. The fact is there are dozens, if not hundreds or thousands, of excellent actors for every role in a major film or theatrical production.

Final casting decisions almost always come down to the eccentricities of personal taste, so why shouldn't simple fairness be included in the equation?

The fact is white people (directors, casting directors and even BWW posters) tend to assume a character is white unless the script specifically says otherwise. To suddenly stand on principle and demand that white performers be cast in minority roles simply adds insult to injury.

Someday, maybe soon, there will be a heavyset Elphaba. I mean, look at the success of "Girls" on the Home Box Office.

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Agreed re "Big Fat Jesus" story. Crying with laughter here.

Does anybody know if there were any white "John"s in Miss Saigon in the Broadway production or any of the major Tours? I know in the original London production the first John was Peter Polycarpou (who is of British-Greek descent I believe) and his understudy was Ray Shell, who is black. But for the rest of the West End run the role was always played by black actor-singers, although there were sometimes white understudies.

duplicate post

Updated On: 1/15/13 at 10:26 AM

we will never have full equality until people stop with this black this, white that... so sick of it, and most of it im afraid is from my progressive friends whose hearts are in the right place.... where does it end? Must someone playing Pocahantas be Native American? if so must she be from the Algonquian tribe? Would a Sioux playing her be offensive? What about Anna Karenina? Must she be Russian? or would Ukrainian be considered an insensitive? Evita is from Argentina,so lets make sure shes an Argentinian....well we saw where that got us, a mediocre Evita.
we even got a taste of the looniness when Cinderealla had BROWN HAIR!!! ugh we are being strangled by over sensitivity.

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Updated On: 1/15/13 at 10:56 AM

The latest uproar: "Bunty Berman Presents" casting:

"Seeking:Equity Female Dancers:Female Dancers. 20s-30s. Need to be able to play South Asian but open to all ethnicities."

There's some vocal objection going around among the South Asian acting community to the effect that only actors of (sufficient) South Asian background be permitted to audition. One (part-South Asian) actress claims that her submission was rejected because she didn't look South Asian enough.

I look forward to seeing how this plays out.

I remember seeing a Charles Mee piece some time back, with an ethnically diverse ensemble who all played multiple roles, most actors representing Asian, South Asian, Middle Eastern, white, African-American, Israeli, etc. Worked fine for me.
Bunty Casting

Most people who think critically about what's called color-blind casting don't give two SH*Ts about the hair color of an actor. It's a silly kind of straw men created by people who want to pretend they are just taking color-blind casting as far it can go down a slippery slope that only they have created, when it's really just to troll people who have well thought out and defendable arguments in favor of color-blind casting.

Anyone who has been on the board for any period of time knows threads like this come up all the time, and I've learned to measure what I say (or at least try to) lest I find myself trying to have a serious discussion against a contingent of unserious people crowing about why there are no white Effies and every other idiotic and easily debunked comparison argument. I'm not saying this isn't a topic that's ripe for discussion, but years on this board have taught that that lots of people who post what they think are clever or provocative "counterarguments" are just people trolling or so deeply steeped in their own privilege that they don't want to have a serious discussion.

Weight and sex (and even sexuality) are completely separate issues from race, both when it comes to talking about them onstage and off. Conflating them all into one big group and then decrying "PC gone amok" is either wildly uniformed or wildly disingenuous (and on BWW, they could very well be both). I think most people know this, but I guess it bears repeating When we we are talking about race (and I mean this most specifically about the United States) we can't not take into account the years of systematic racism designed and perpetuated to keep African-Americans (and to an extent, all minority races) in a second-class system.

The reason why many times a role that was originated by an black actor remains played by a black actor (say Deloris in Sister Act, Tom Collins in Rent, John in most professional American productions of Miss Saigon, etc) most likely does has to do with the relative dearth of roles for black actors in the theatre. Yes, there are your Raisins, and Dreamgirls, and August Wilson plays, etc, but for those who continually seem to have something stuck in their craw about seeing a black face in a musical or play that isn't "historically correct" seems to speak to a deeper pathology, one that probably can't be worked on on a forum such as BWW. Yes, all those shows exist, but to be of the mindset that "they have those shows, why do they need need to be in WHITE shows" seems to express a notion that black performers should be ghettoized into shows that only deal with the experience of being black.

As to the all Thai version of Miss Saigon that Chooka watched on youtube, was that not performed in Thailand? I'm not sure how a show like that fits into this discussion, since those whole conservation falls apart when we discussing racial issues in countries that a) are almost predominately one race and b) Don't carry the same scars that racism leaves behind in Western countries, where the majority race is Caucasian and the races that aren't Caucasian suffer at the hands of hundreds of years of white privilege. It's as much of a straw man as complaining about a blonde Cinderella or a straight person playing a gay person. And anyone who can't (or more likely, won't) understand that really has no place in this discussion.

It must be nice to believe that if you stop talking about "black this" and "white that" that all sorts of systematic racism will magically evaporated. It's wrong (and ignorant) but still, it must be nice.