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#201

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/14/15 at 7:59pm

Showface said: "hork said: "Showface said:

You're mentioning nationalities, which is an entirely different thing

Here's why I asked you this question--you said writers "write what they know" to excuse non-diverse, majority or all-white pieces. I don't think that's valid. If they (or should I say you?)can only write about white people because thats all they know, because they have no insight in the "experience and culture" of other races, apparently...then what exactly is that writing about? If it's only things that can be relevant to white people, then what exactly are those things? That was my question.

I would also like to say that due to this little thing called immigratio, there are also non-white England, France, Germanh, Sweden, etc., so I really don't understand what you're saying.

I'm not talking about nationalities. I'm talking about ethnicities. Those are all ethnic groups. They all have their own culture, traditions, customs, peculiarities, even apart from their nationality. That includes white Anglo-Saxon Americans. I'm not going to sit here and list all the ways someone with an Irish-American background differs from someone with an African-American background, just because you're having trouble with the concept of heterogeneity.

#202

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/14/15 at 8:20pm

hork said: It's just that very, very few people of any color get leading roles in Broadway shows. It's like winning the lottery, and I can't feel bad for people who don't win. If you're on Broadway at all, you're already one of the luckiest people in the world.

But why do you think that is? I don't understand how you can clearly see the scarcity of actors of color in leading roles and not understand the issue here. No one is saying that performers on Broadway aren't lucky or don't struggle to get there, but proportionally there is a smaller amount of POC in leading roles, and so it is statistically harder for non-white actors to get these jobs, which is a problem.

I am a firm believer in serendipity- all the random pieces coming together in one wonderful moment, when suddenly you see what their purpose was all along.

#203

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/14/15 at 8:53pm

"proportionally there is a smaller amount of POC in leading roles"

proportionally, is there a smaller amount of POC auditioning for these roles?

<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES

#204

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/14/15 at 10:01pm

hork said: "Non-white entertainers don't have a monopoly on struggling. Everybody struggles, including white entertainers. I don't feel bad for white people who can't get leading roles, either. I'm not going to feel sorry for you because you can't get a leading role and you happen to not be white, and I don't think it's insulting to say that. And non-white people obviously can and do get leading roles, as we've already established on this thread, so if you're good enough, you'll get one. It's just that very, very few people of any color get leading roles in Broadway shows. It's like winning the lottery, and I can't feel bad for people who don't win. If you're on Broadway at all, you're already one of the luckiest people in the world."

Everybody struggles, but white people struggle a whole lot ****in less.

#205

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/14/15 at 10:18pm

We had a Tupac musical.

#206

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/14/15 at 10:30pm

Something that hasn't been touch upon yet, a lot of minorities choose not to pursue their dreams of acting before it even starts because the odds are so stacked against them. If it's a one in a million chance to make it in Hollywood, it's a one in a trillion chance for an actor of color to make it. If kids growing up have trouble finding people on stage or on screen than look like them, why should they believe they even have the slightest chance to make it? It's a cycle that won't end unless we call for more diversity in media.

Phyllis Rogers Stone said: "Today I was driving home from work and I saw an unfortunate billboard that said "Blue Lives Matter." While the blue is referring to police, I couldn't help but think of this thread and how no matter what sort of issue is raised regarding minorities, there will always be those who have to minimize the issue or cry a variation of "what about white people?"

Why do people do that? Why is it the reflex of some people to immediately try to dismiss or diminish any issues that have to with race?"

Ugh, people who try to hijack the BLM movement are the worst. Someone accurately described it as crashing strangers' funerals and shouting out "I too have felt loss!."

Updated On: 10/14/15 at 10:30 PM

#207

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/14/15 at 10:56pm

wonderfulwizard11 said: "hork said: It's just that very, very few people of any color get leading roles in Broadway shows. It's like winning the lottery, and I can't feel bad for people who don't win. If you're on Broadway at all, you're already one of the luckiest people in the world.

I understand the issue. I just don't give a damn. There's only a dozen or so non-white actors in leading roles currently on Broadway, when there should be ... I don't know, what's an acceptable number? So there are only a dozen or so non-white actors getting more lines and making more money than the rest of the cast. Sorry, I don't give a damn about how many lines you have or how much money you're making. Statistically it's harder for non-black basketball players to get jobs, or short runway models to get jobs, or male nannies to get jobs. Don't give a damn.

Updated On: 10/14/15 at 10:56 PM

#208

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/15/15 at 1:46am

Well, no one said it would be easy? No one was even implying it would be easy. How long has it been since Stonewall to where gay rights are actually becoming a thing? I'm not saying it'll be overnight success, but we still have people in America who don't see people of color as equals, so that's going to take some damn time to fix. How long? Who knows? But, I think Golderberg has a point. If you want to see change, then be the change. If you want to see more diversity in politics, then get involved in politics. If you want to see more "bungalow style houses," then yeah, be a building contractor. Why is that a laughable idea? Isn't that how change works? What doesn't work is a bunch of people saying "Oh it'll never happen so move on." That's how things get stifled. I want to see more interesting ideas portrayed in television, so I'm working on a webseries. Will it change the world? Probably not. But at least I'm contributing a little something instead of just complaining and pointing the finger.

#209

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/15/15 at 3:41am

"I have no minorities in my program at school (we barely have 1% of students being POC in the entire student body) and I will sometimes lament all the shows I cannot produce."

I'm still not over the time we did Anything Goes in high school. Most of the Asian students were non-speaking in the ensemble. Two Caucasian students played Ching and Ling, horrible accents and all. At least their makeup wasn't overt yellow face? The only times I can remember our director employing colorblind casting it was simply because we never had enough boys audition.

#210

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/15/15 at 4:13am

"Chiwetel Ejiofor is a black British actor with parents of Nigerian descent. I don't know why we're having an argument whether he is Indian or not. He's just not. It's like asking if Kristin Chenoweth is MexicanChiwetel Ejiofor is a black British actor with parents of Nigerian descent. I don't know why we're having an argument whether he is Indian or not. He's just not. It's like asking if Kristin Chenoweth is Mexican. She's not. . She's not."

First, this thread was making me a little sad but this was hilarious.

"I have a blond, blue-eyed friend who is 100% Mexican; she was born and raised in Mexico to parents who were born and raised in Mexico."

Do you honestly think it's as inspiring for a little girl of Mexican descent to see Sara Paxton on screen as it is to see Selena Gomez?

#211

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/15/15 at 5:44am

Here's my question, Vintage: should two of the Asians have been given the parts if they were (far) inferior actors? Getting the roles JUST because they are Asian doesn't quite seem right, either.

(Remember, in academic settings a surprisingly large number of performers actually suck.)

If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it? These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.

#212

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/15/15 at 6:13am

"If you want to see more "bungalow style houses," then yeah, be a building contractor."

You really don't see why this idea is laughable? Really? You do realize that just because people care about an issue, it doesn't mean that they have the capabilities to change it. Not everyone in this thread is a writer or casting agent. Some of the people in this thread may not even be of age to get such a job! You don't know the situation.

It's so easy for people to just sit and say "I don't care" on an issue that doesn't affect you, especially through privileged eyes.

#213

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/15/15 at 8:45am

Opinions are good but numbers tell a story. The US Census Bureau (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html) reports that, as of 2014, the US population broke down as 62.1% White (not Hispanic or Latino), 17.4% Hispanic or Latino, 13.2% Black or African-American, 5.4% Asian, 1.2% American Indian or Alaska native, 2.5% Two or More Races, 0.2% Native Hawaiian or other Pacific Islander. Which adds up, oddly, to 102%, but that's government for you.

Going through the current cast lists as reported by ibdb.com, the breakdown for actors in "leading roles" is roughly 76% white/24% of color. (Some of the actors who appear white may, of course, have mixed heritage - for instance, Courtney Reed, Aladdin's Jasmine, claims to be of mixed background.)

"Leading roles" will naturally be defined differently by different people; for instance, I chose 4 leads for Gentleman's Guide (all white), 6 for The King & I (2 white, 4 of color), etc. Then there's a show like Chicago, which I only granted 2 leads, both currently white, but sometimes played by actors of color. I gave Wicked 8 leads, only one of whom is currently played by an actor of color.

Not that these numbers have any real meaning, and others will calculate them differently, but I just like statistics.

#214

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/15/15 at 9:07am

Case closed!

#215

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/15/15 at 9:33am

Showface said 'You really don't see why this idea is laughable? Really? You do realize that just because people care about an issue, it doesn't mean that they have the capabilities to change it. "

Thank you, at least you see how preposterous Whoopi's grand solution is. "just become a casting director.'

The statement alone makes one wonder about the sanity of Ms. Goldberg.

<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES

#216

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/15/15 at 9:38am

I know there's someone out there whose only reply to research and statistics is lazy stupid pissiness...

Oh, yes - Donald Trump!

#217

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/15/15 at 9:44am

But I thought they had no real meaning?

You poor wounded soul, you. You precious little numbers wonk, who doesn't believe there can be discussions like this on BWW, but alas, you labor under an ancient witch's curse that forces you to post in these threads. Maybe that curse explains the disconnect between the way you come across and the way you think (or at least pretend to think) you come across.

Updated On: 10/15/15 at 09:44 AM

#218

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/15/15 at 9:47am

Give it a break, Phyl. Following me around, yappin' at my heels like a tiny mangy Peke lost its entertainment value ages ago.

#219

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/15/15 at 9:48am

I hardly follow you around! It would be too tough keeping up with all those moving goalposts!

#220

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/15/15 at 9:52am

" If you want to see more "bungalow style houses," then yeah, be a building contractor. Why is that a laughable idea? Isn't that how change works?"

NO, that isn't how change works. Change does not work by everyone who would like to see change going out and becoming a professional in some field. Listen to yourself - if you're a senior citizen living on social security and you would like to see more affordable housing, you DO NOT become a building contractor nor a top city administrator. This is just one example of how ridiculous this sounds.

Change takes place by voicing your, and others' opinions, to the people who CAN make change. That's called voting, on the political front. Change takes place by doing whatever you can do on your own level, whether it be boycotting a product or store, or perhaps getting petitions signed, etc.

<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES

#221

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/15/15 at 10:01am

It also means FINDING how your voice AND actions can change things. It means getting INVOLVED. It doesn't mean becoming a professional in the field. It certainly doesn't mean whine about it on a discussion board which can change nothing.

#222

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/15/15 at 10:12am

"hork," incidentally, is the same sound I make when I read some of this thread.

"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."

#223

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/15/15 at 10:29am

dramamama611 said: "It certainly doesn't mean whine about it on a discussion board which can change nothing."

Oh, I wouldn't be so sure.

"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt

#224

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/15/15 at 11:37am

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh this thread. Hilarity. And sadness. It's a steel magnolia!

I recently read Ta-Nehisi Coates' book Between the World and Me, and it's really shifted (and in some ways) clarified my thinking on race. I highly recommend it to every last person in this thread.

The one thing that I came away with is, it's fine to have my own opinions as a white-presenting man. But I don't actually have to share those opinions. What I really should do is listen to the experiences of POC instead of telling them what their experiences are. And maybe that's what we white folk should do in this thread. Cause i see a sh*t-ton of white-splaining and a whole bunch of POC calmly trying to deal with our limitations...which is kind of how it is in real life. Basically, white folks? Stop talking. Listen.

#225

Diversity on Broadway

Posted: 10/15/15 at 12:27pm

Essentially all I'm saying is DO SOMETHING. It maybe not go out there and become a casting director, but change doesn't happen by sitting on your ass and bitching about it.

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