"'FOSSE/VERDON' COMING TO FX"- Page 10

[Kad]

Posted: 4/26/19 at 10:05am

A Director said: "bk said:

It's all made up, that stuff, but really one shouldn't have "dramatic license" with characters based on real people.

Tell that toShakespeare!"

Hell, tell that to every writer who ever lived. 

 

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 4/26/19 at 10:41am

Again, ALL of the material covering Gwen Verdon was provided by her daughter Nicole Fosse directly. Any inaccuracies people are upset with, comes directly from her. She’s stated in interviews that she’s responsible for those sections and agreed to allowing the project to happen as the series would focus on not just her father Bob Fosse but finally tell her mom’s story as well, which she’s honored to be in charge of. Nicole is in charge of her parent’s estate so FOSSE/VERDON would never had happened had she not agreed to it.

[Kad]

Posted: 4/26/19 at 10:45am

I think it's thrilling that it's the Verdon part of the series that audiences seem to be most interested in and connecting with. 

[ggersten]

Posted: 4/26/19 at 11:00am

So, what is/was the story with Gwen's son? I found this article which has some information - but not a whole lot.  Verdon's Son: "It was normal for me"

[MemorableUserName]

Posted: 4/26/19 at 11:06am

Also worth noting that some of it is what Nicole Fosse thinks happened, rather than what anything Gwen told her:

Vulture notes in their recap:

Peter Shelley’s 2015 biography Gwen Verdon: A Life on Stage and Screen, meanwhile, notes that the couple were married “exactly nine months” before James Jr. was born, which doesn’t quite fit the definition of a shotgun marriage, by the usual parameters of human gestation. Let me clear here: I’m not saying anything in this episode (including Henaghan’s implied sexual assault) is a case of questionable dramatic license on the Fosse/Verdon writers’ part. Nicole Fosse is a consultant on this show, and it’s possible Gwen told her daughter more about her first marriage than she ever told any reporter. I’m only saying that even theater geeks who know a lot about Fosse and Verdon are likely to be startled by what this episode depicts."

From Vanity Fair's story:
 

“Nicole filled in a little of this [backstory] for us,” said Cahn. “Kind of starting with the basic story that, when Gwen was about 16 years old, one of her parents’ friends got her pregnant and then her parents told her to marry him.” This account is depicted in flashback, presenting, for the first time, the circumstances in which Verdon met her first husband. “She met him at her parents’ home,” continued Cahn. “He was a personal friend of the family. He was a theater critic and a little bit of a talent manager and then, shortly after, he was a married man with a serious drinking problem who couldn’t do his job. His very young wife, who had stopped dancing and literally threw away her dancing shoes to be a mother and a wife, was writing his columns for him.”

When Verdon did later speak about that first marriage, she did so obliquely. “I thought being married meant doing the laundry,” she told The New York Times in 1981. “I mean, what do you know when you’re that age?” She added of her husband: “He was a drinker. So he would wind up in Kansas City and not remember how he got there . . . My son was born in March and on New Years Eve, I said ‘That’s it,’ and I went home to Mama. I took my child, my dog and my cats and left.”

Verdon may have kept details of the marriage secret to protect her son, but that doesn’t make them any less infuriating. The idea of Verdon’s parents forcing their teenage daughter to marry the family friend who impregnated her? “That is just a jaw-dropper,” said Cahn, still incredulous over the revelation. “It’s like, ‘What?!’ Why hasn’t there been a feature film about [Verdon] every 10 years? That story is crazy. He was her parents’ friend!”

When asked how Nicole came to this realization about her mother’s first marriage, Cahn said, “It’s tricky talking to someone about their life and their parents’ life, and how she kind of put pieces together as she grew older. I have actually had a similar experience—my parents both passed away, and in the last few years, I have kind of been putting stories together that I heard as a child. Looking at them from the perspective of an adult, thinking, Oh, that’s what that meant. That’s what that was a euphemism for . . .”

“I think there were a lot of pieces that she started to piece together as she looked back at this as an adult, and as a parent,” explained Cahn. “Little scraps that she heard from her parents or their friends over the years and kind of put together into a more complete picture of what happened in her mother’s young life.”

 

As with all of these series--Feud, American Crime Story, etc.--portions have to be taken with huge heaps of salt. Yes, this is Nicole Fosse's version of her parents (and the people around them), which may or may not be completely accurate.

Updated On: 4/26/19 at 11:06 AM

[SmoothLover]

Posted: 4/27/19 at 1:04am

Her son looks a lot like her! A picture from back in the day when he was doing a little acting.

 

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 4/27/19 at 10:02am

Could someone please suggest a show biz bio (other than a documentary) that doesn’t take major liberties with the facts?

I’ve never seen one. I doubt I’d ever want to.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 4/27/19 at 11:12am

henrikegerman said: "Could someone please suggest a show biz bio (other than a documentary) that doesn’t take major liberties with the facts?

I’ve never seen one. I doubt I’d ever want to.
"

My favorite one comes directly from Loretta Lynn herself and her fabricated friendship with Patsy Cline that she wrote about in her 1977 autobiography COAL MINER’S DAUGHTER and heavily featured in its 1980 Oscar winning film adaptation.  

Countless country music legends who knew Patsy Cline and who were heavily involved in the Nashville world at that time have stated that Loretta fabricated that close friendship in the book/film.  Had they crossed paths and had an industry acquaintance?   Absolutely.   Were they best friends and Patsy mentored her?  Um, nope.   Patsy never mentioned Loretta to anyone so when all this surfaced, people’s eyes rolled.  

Sure made for a beautiful story.   

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 4/27/19 at 11:22am

BrodyFosse123 said: "henrikegerman said: "Could someone please suggest a show biz bio (other than a documentary) that doesn’t take major liberties with the facts?

I’ve never seen one. I doubt I’d ever want to.
"

My favorite one comes directly from Loretta Lynn herself and her fabricated friendship with Patsy Cline that she wrote about in her 1977 autobiography COAL MINER’S DAUGHTER and heavily featured in its 1980 Oscar winning film adaptation.

Countless country music legends who knew Patsy Cline and who were heavily involved in the Nashville world at that time have stated that Loretta fabricated that close friendship in the book/film. Had they crossedpaths and had an industry acquaintance? Absolutely. Were they best friends and Patsy mentored her? Um, nope. Patsy never mentioned Loretta to anyone so when all this surfaced, people’s eyes rolled.

Sure made fora beautiful story. "

It sure did as well as some great performances by Sissy Spacek as Lynn and Beverly D’Angelo as Cline - who also did their own singing!

[MemorableUserName]

Posted: 4/27/19 at 12:26pm

henrikegerman said: "Could someone please suggest a show biz bio (other than a documentary) that doesn’t take major liberties with the facts?

I’ve never seen one. I doubt I’d ever want to.
"

Of course every bio takes a lot of liberties. I was mostly responding to BrodyFosse123 repeatedly bringing up Nicole Fosse's participation ("Again, ALL of the material covering Gwen Verdon was provided by her daughter Nicole Fosse directly. Any inaccuracies people are upset with, comes directly from her." ), as though that somehow gives the show a seal of authenticity and excuses some of the nonsense for dramatic purposes.

Nicole Fosse could be involved AND large portions of the story and characterizations could be bull****. So when someone points out the inaccuracies and how some people are being portrayed badly to suit the story (which often happens), there's really no need to respond, "But Nicole Fosse! NICOLE FOSSE!!!!!" Yeah, yeah, Nicole Fosse. That doesn't make this any more real than any other biopic.

Updated On: 4/27/19 at 12:26 PM

[David10086]

Posted: 4/27/19 at 3:47pm

sondheimfan2 said: ""

Agreed! Overall, I am loving this series. Can we get "Sondheim/Prince" next?"

 

 

No, we need to have "Andrew Lloyd Webber / Patti Lupone" first ! 

 

'EVITA' and 'SUNSET BLVD' will make up all eight episodes, if not more. 

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 4/27/19 at 3:58pm

There isn’t a human on this earth who could portray Patti LuPone and do her justice.

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 4/27/19 at 5:15pm

This week was the first episode in which I really felt like I understood the personal story they are trying to tell with this series. Maybe it's because it's the first episode written and directed by folks with more exhaustive TV credits? I dunno, but I felt like I really connected to it this time much more than the previous two weeks. 

[ArtMan]

Posted: 4/27/19 at 5:32pm

BrodyFosse123 said: "henrikegerman said: "Could someone please suggest a show biz bio (other than a documentary) that doesn’t take major liberties with the facts?

I’ve never seen one. I doubt I’d ever want to.
"

My favorite one comes directly from Loretta Lynn herself and her fabricated friendship with Patsy Cline that she wrote about in her 1977 autobiography COAL MINER’S DAUGHTER and heavily featured in its 1980 Oscar winning film adaptation.

Countless country music legends who knew Patsy Cline and who were heavily involved in the Nashville world at that time have stated that Loretta fabricated that close friendship in the book/film. Had they crossedpaths and had an industry acquaintance? Absolutely. Were they best friends and Patsy mentored her? Um, nope. Patsy never mentioned Loretta to anyone so when all this surfaced, people’s eyes rolled.

Sure made fora beautiful story."

Never knew this.  Was the twin really named after Patsy Cline or was that made up also?

[ArtMan]

Posted: 4/27/19 at 5:32pm

double

Updated On: 4/27/19 at 05:32 PM

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 4/27/19 at 6:14pm

Never knew this. Was the twin really named after Patsy Cline or was that made up also?

Yes, she did name one of her twins Patsy (after Patsy Cline), and yes, she recorded a tribute album to Patsy and Loretta continues to talk freely about her friendship with Patsy.  Others just made it clear that friendship Loretta talks about was more fiction than fact.  

[ArtMan]

Posted: 4/27/19 at 7:27pm

Thanks, Brody.

[Valentina3]

Posted: 4/27/19 at 11:45pm

BrodyFosse123 said: "My favorite one comes directly from Loretta Lynn herself and her fabricated friendship with Patsy Cline that she wrote about in her 1977 autobiography COAL MINER’S DAUGHTER and heavily featured in its 1980 Oscar winning film adaptation.

Countless country music legends who knew Patsy Cline and who were heavily involved in the Nashville world at that time have stated that Loretta fabricated that close friendship in the book/film. Had they crossed paths and had an industry acquaintance? Absolutely. Were they best friends and Patsy mentored her? Um, nope. Patsy never mentioned Loretta to anyone so when all this surfaced, people’s eyes rolled.

Sure made for a beautiful story."

Wait really? Lifetime is literally doing a movie about this mentor-friendship starring Jessie Mueller and Megan Hilty. The press announcement sure made it sound like a real story as well.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 4/28/19 at 12:30am

Wait really? Lifetime is literally doing a movie about this mentor-friendship starring Jessie Mueller and Megan Hilty. The press announcement sure made it sound like a real story as well.

More validation is you’ll never be able to locate any photos of Loretta and Patsy together and the character of Loretta Lynn never once appears or is even mentioned in the Jessica Lange Patsy Cline bio pic SWEET DREAMS. 

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 4/28/19 at 1:02am

^^^ Maybe the friendship was real, but just a lot more important to Lynn than to Cline. Given that Cline was the much bigger star at the time, this wouldn't be surprising.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 4/28/19 at 9:40am

GavestonPS said: "^^^ Maybe the friendship was real, but just a lot more important to Lynn than to Cline. Given that Cline was the much bigger star at the time, this wouldn't be surprising."

Many, including Loretta, have admitted to this when the topic has come up, but her taking liberties with history by showing and saying they performed together is pure fantasy as they never did.  They never shared the bill on any tour, nite-club or stage performance.  

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 4/28/19 at 3:44pm

Cline and Lynn may have not been bffs, but Lynn has nothing on Schiler, Donizetti, Maxwell Anderson and a dozen Hollywood hacks.

Mary Stuart and Elizabeth II never met.

[David10086]

Posted: 4/28/19 at 5:49pm

TotallyEffed said: "There isn’t a human on this earth who could portray Patti LuPone and do her justice."

 

Hmmmm - I was thinking Glenn Close, myself. 

[David10086]

Posted: 4/28/19 at 6:02pm

everythingtaboo said: "This week was the first episode in which I really felt like I understood the personal story they are trying to tell with this series. Maybe it's because it's the first episode written and directed by folks with more exhaustive TV credits? I dunno, but I felt like I really connected to it this time much more than the previous two weeks."

Each week, I've tuned in and have enjoyed the show for what it is - a relationship story about this 'theater couple'. I never knew much about Fosse and Verdon as people or as a couple, just (slightly) knew their achievements on Broadway (and certainly appreciate what they've given us over the decades).

That said, each week I've become more vested into these characters as 'people' through the incredible acting and outstanding storylines. This past episode - as you've referred to - has really solidified the relationship aspect for me, and as you've said "feel more connected".

And a very special thanks to BrodyFosse123 for all the insight and information shared with us each week. So many of the posts have been incredibly helpful in answering different questions I think of when I first see the episode. It only makes the story more complete.   

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 4/28/19 at 8:37pm

BrodyFosse123 said: "Wait really? Lifetime is literally doing a movie about this mentor-friendship starring Jessie Mueller and Megan Hilty. The press announcement sure made it sound like a real story as well.

More validation is you’ll never be able to locate any photos of Loretta and Patsy together and the character of Loretta Lynn never once appears or is even mentioned in the Jessica Lange Patsy Cline bio pic SWEET DREAMS."

The friendship was in fact in the original draft of SWEET DREAMS.  In the article I am linking HERE it explains that the reason why Lynn wasn’t mentioned in SWEET DREAMS was because Robert Getchell and more specifically, producer Bernard Schwartz (who also produced COAL MINER'S DAUGHTER) felt that it was pointless because it was already covered in COAL MINER’S DAUGHTER. If they believed the friendship was true or fabricated was never mentioned. It seemed to me that it was never questioned.

There is an upcoming Lifetime television movie that will chronicle the friendship between Patsy Cline and Loretta Lynn. Megan Hilty will be playing Patsy Cline and Jessie Mueller will be playing Loretta Lynn.

More info on that film can be found HERE

And now I return you great folks to discussing FOSSE/VERDON

Updated On: 4/28/19 at 08:37 PM