"'FOSSE/VERDON' COMING TO FX"- Page 9

[sondheimfan2]

Posted: 4/19/19 at 6:28pm

"Susan Misner's scene as McCracken "reading" Gwen Verdon in the powder room was priceless. She not only let her know in so many words that she was on to what was going on and that she was nobody's fool let alone anyone's victim, but she was warning Gwen what lay in store for her. It was one of the best if not the best scene in the episode."

Agreed! Overall, I am loving this series. Can we get "Sondheim/Prince" next?

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 4/19/19 at 11:19pm

BrodyFosse123 said: "The ALL THAT JAZZ timeline referencing Bob Fosse’s life is 1974-75 while he was simultaneously editing his film LENNY and rehearsing CHICAGO and suffering his first heart attack.

In the fabulous sequence of Audrey (Leland Palmer) dancing in the rehearsal room and talking to Joe (Roy Scheider) about his infidelities, they’re not creating any choreography — she’s just doing her warmups."

Thank you, Brody. I misremembered the scene and appreciate the correction.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 4/19/19 at 11:43pm

henrikegerman said: "
Clearly the line was not sincerely meant.

about 90% of the dialogue in that scene was coded.

This is ascene of manipulation. Fosse’s manipulation of Gwen to believe she needshim to keepLola. Verdon’s response is a mix of coy pandering, even coyer impudenceand playful passive aggressive."

Even the references to Verdon "auditioning" for Fosse are ironic. Looking at DAMN YANKEES, the part of Lola is barely necessary to the plot; it was obviously either created for--or heavily tailored for--Verdon personally.

She was a Tony winner and the "hot, new discovery" of the previous season; he had never had his name on the choreography of a book musical. There's no way Prince or Abbott was going to fire Verdon and keep Fosse.

(The other possibility is that her repeated references to "auditioning" was supposed to dramatize the eternal insecurity of most actors. Even so, it wasn't a literal audition.)

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 4/20/19 at 12:44am

CarlosAlberto said: "Fosse had a pattern. He left Mary Ann Niles for Joan McCracken, left McCracken for Gwen Verdon and then spurned Verdon for. Reinking. "

Ya lose em how you get em.

Updated On: 4/24/19 at 12:44 AM

[SmoothLover]

Posted: 4/20/19 at 2:15am

I think Rockwell never "made the leap" to coin an acting phrase and he knows it. Part of the problem is the script. He kind of looks like he can't wait for the filming to be over. Oh lord and that bald cap. I can't believe he did not scream and yell when he saw the rushes.

 

Hopefully we will see more of the character's younger self, his passion, ambition and charm and then what drove him to the drinking, drugs and intimacy issues. Right now all we are seeing is a little boy tap dancing with a perfectionist teacher with an inference of him not succeeding as a dancer,

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 4/20/19 at 11:09am

Bob Fosse’s personal frustration was that he always wanted to be an actor/dancer. His dream was to be equal or the next Fred Astaire (who he idolized). Due to his unique personal dancing style, he was given opportunities to choreograph, which was never on his radar. His doubt in himself and his talent haunted him as he always felt anything he did, someone else could do better. Others saw otherwise, including his second wife Joan McCracken who built his confidence by letting him know he was more than a nite-club dancer and think more ambitious. Even in his early period of choreographing, others helped him out as he knew nothing especially choreographing groups of dancers. He eventually made it his trademark to choreograph groups in trio pairings, due to this limitation. Jerome Robbins also helped Bob Fosse out enormously and guided him in this learning process.

After establishing his reputation as a choreographer, his success with Gwen Verdon led to his opportunity to direct as well. All these things he never considered but went along due to the opportunity opening up and others building his confidence. All along he wanted to still dance and act himself and even offering to dance sometimes in his own shows.

FOSSE/VERDON is doing an excellent job in capsulizing the general scope of both their stories so even with it’s bumps, it’s still telling their stories accurately. All of the Gwen Verdon material comes directly from Nicole Fosse, who provided the info being used. Sam Wasson’s Bible of Bob Fosse (the book FOSSE) is the skeleton used as the source for the Bob Fosse sections. We’re lucky HBO never did their Bryan Singer directed film adaptation of the book as that would have been a 2-hour film heavily abridged to just cover the basics. FX is allowing their story to be told in full in an 8-part series.  Just the fact that this series is even happening, is a gift to us all.  Especially with Nicole Fosse’s attachment and who brought in authenticity to the project, from personal details of her parents to the use of her father’s original choreography, which is being recreated by dancers who actually worked with both Bob Fosse and Gwen Verdon.  

[SmoothLover]

Posted: 4/24/19 at 4:12am

Thank you Brody! You are always of wealth of information. It seems a who's who of Broadway talent continues to grace the Fosse/Verdon episodes. I wonder if anyone will be playing Irene Ryan?

[bk]

Posted: 4/24/19 at 4:51am

I haven't loved any of the episodes, but tonight's was the worst of the three.  The writing is horrible, for the most part.  And all the little, silly anachronisms and details gone wrong that are so easy to research and get right.  

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 4/24/19 at 9:13am

SmoothLover said: "Thank you Brody! You are always of wealth of information. It seems a who's who of Broadway talent continues to grace the Fosse/Verdon episodes. I wonder if anyone will be playing Irene Ryan?"

Thank you.  As an acknowledged authority on all things Bob Fosse (by various people associated with the Fosse legacy), I'm more than pleased with FOSSE/VERDON.  I've always embraced adaptations and even reinterpretations of classic work, so as an artist, I accept liberties, even in bios.  Nicole Fosse ran this ship so everything being shown has been approved by her, with all the inaccuracies.  If she approved, so do I.  Move on if it upsets you so much.  Life's too short and there are a ton of other stuff to watch on TV.  

All of Bob Fosse's Broadway work is being covered in FOSSE/VERDON, so actors will be portraying talent involved in the shows.  Peggy J. Scott is playing Irene Ryan, Lindsay Nicole Chambers will be playing Leland Palmer and Ahmad Simmons will be playing Ben Vereen in the portion covering PIPPIN.  

[perfectliar]

Posted: 4/24/19 at 9:42am

BrodyFosse123 said: "As an acknowledged authority on all things Bob Fosse(by various people associated with the Fosse legacy), I'm more than pleased with FOSSE/VERDON."

Brody, one of the things I wish Wasson's book talked more about was Fosse's involvement with White Christmas and his uncredited choreography. Got any stories or details? (Feel free to PM if this is going too far off topic!)

[Itonlytakesajourney]

Posted: 4/24/19 at 10:52am

I really enjoyed last night’s episode. While maybe not as flashy as the previous ones, the focus on Williams’ Verdon was incredibly engaging and heartfelt. The angel monologue in particular was just a gem. Williams is just dominating the acting pool on that show, and I hope she knows it.

[kofler22]

Posted: 4/24/19 at 11:40am

I just wish that they´d show more dancing or more of the complete numbers...I know Williams is not a dancer and she´s portraying THE dancer...

Will they be talking about Sweet Charity, Redhead or New girl in town? 

[ljay889]

Posted: 4/24/19 at 1:24pm

It they’re covering Children, Children in detail, I can’t imagine they won’t show Redhead, New Girl, and Charity.

[massofmen]

Posted: 4/24/19 at 8:40pm

wow this show is boring. Im trying to stay invested but its a snoozefest

[Someone in a Tree2]

Posted: 4/24/19 at 9:06pm

After the thrills of episode 2, I was really let down by #3. The only choreography we get in the whole episode is that weird opening dream sequence in the Editor's Hallway?!? What the hell was THAT, and why didn't anyone notice it looks nothing like a Fosse number? I can't believe we're spending so much time with Gwen's rehearsals for a straight play-- would a miniseries on Barbra Streisand spend an hour on the movie NUTS?

And how many times do we have to see a scene where Fosse's collaborators (in this case his Cabaret editor) are portrayed as lumbering ignoramuses? Are Fosse and Verdon the only genuises we're allowed to have in one room? Grrr....

[Miles2Go2]

Posted: 4/24/19 at 9:18pm

I’m actually really enjoying this. And I totally get why there was so much focus on Chikdren! Children! last night. Gwen was trying to extract herself from Fosse’s shadow, but I’m guessing we’ll continue to see in the next episode that independence isn’t so easy for her to gain.

[bk]

Posted: 4/24/19 at 10:58pm

Someone in a Tree2 said: "After the thrills of episode 2, I was really let down by #3. The only choreography we get in the whole episode is that weird opening dream sequence in the Editor'sHallway?!? What the hell was THAT, and why didn't anyone notice it looks nothing like a Fosse number? I can't believe we're spending so much time with Gwen's rehearsalsfora straight play-- would a miniseries on Barbra Streisand spend an hour on the movie NUTS?

And how many times do we have to see a scene where Fosse's collaborators (in this case his Cabaret editor) are portrayed as lumbering ignoramuses? Are Fosse and Verdon the only genuises we're allowed to have in one room? Grrr...."

This is one of the most egregious things about this series - for dramatic purposes trying to paint characters based on real people as jerks, bored collaborators, etc.  The editor of Cabaret was one of the best and even according to Wasson their collaboaration was a good one.  It's all made up, that stuff, but really one shouldn't have "dramatic license" with characters based on real people.  Same goes for the character based on Joseph Hardy, the director of Children! Children!  He's portrayed as a total creep, he speaks of acting in today's terminology, and I'm sorry, there is no way he would have spoken to a Tony Award-winning star with that disdain and condescension, and in front of the entire company - yeah, sure.  I found those scenes  embarrassing and excruciating.  And back to the editor, they make Fosse look like a neophyte idiot by having him not understand when the editor says he's ready to show him the assemblage of Cabaret, like that's some verboten thing, to which  the writer has him resond, "You edited my movie?"  Every editor of every film ever made does the first assemblage, it always runs long because it's just all the approved takes roughly edited in some version of the film that is hardly "edited."  Assemblages suck but it helps you see where things are long, what can go, and basically after viewing you begin the real work of finding the movie.  Fosse had already done Sweet Charity and would have known all of this.  But for the sake of some stupid need for some drama, they fabricate.  I can't imagine what the heirs of Mr. Bretherton and Mr. Hardy think, nor can I imagine what the heirs of Mr. Chayefsky think with his sequence, which someone who knows those people intimately, posted on Facebook saying Chayefsky would have never spoken those things nor would Gwen have said what she said about Paddy babysitting.  Again, artificial drama.  And just for fun's sake, they did not say "on set" in 1972 or 1982 or before the 90s.  They said on THE set.  At some point well into the 90s it became this other thing.  Oh, and they didn't have "handles" on paper grocery bags in 1972 either.  Ah, but who cares about the details?

 

Updated On: 4/25/19 at 10:58 PM

[IdinaBellFoster]

Posted: 4/25/19 at 12:31am

I loved last night’s episode. The final long shot of Williams going back down for the encore bow was breathtaking.

[SmoothLover]

Posted: 4/25/19 at 2:25am

The most surprising thing about the series is how Fosse is portrayed as being somewhat insecure given his choreography was so bold. I guess I had never read much about him so I was not in the loop. BrodyFosse123 has provided this thread with great background information that has given me a better understanding of the choreographer.

I wish there were more partial or full musical numbers as well. Williams is so good that is makes up for any fault that the script may have. I was on the fence about the first episode partly because it jumped around so much but I am liking what has happened since.

I wonder if anyone is playing John Rubenstein or Stephen Schwartz?

[TheQuibbler]

Posted: 4/25/19 at 8:36am

In this last episode, I was most struck (again) by how good Williams is. Especially as Gwen in her mid-to-late 40s; the way she carries her body, you can see the dancer’s form fighting, and slightly winning, over the aging process. The posture, the movement, is all very subtle while conveying a life’s story.

Also kudos to the makeup team for proving you can give your lead fake teeth and not have them be obnoxiously distracting a la Bohemian Rhapsody.

I’m not as enamored with the overall show as much as I am with Williams. The pacing is off; teetering between feeling a bit rushed, bouncing around and never settling in long enough to truly engage, yet a tad dry when it does slow down. I’m enjoying the surface pleasures quite a lot but I think I’m missing something deeper. For me, show works best when they’re putting Fosse and Verdon’s processes front and center, such as in the “Big Spender” (I loved Gwen helping the dancer discover why she was leaning on the pole), “...Lola Wants” audition, and “Mein Herr” scenes.

[greensgreens]

Posted: 4/25/19 at 9:44am

Am I crazy or did they casually mention that Schwarzenegger was being considered for Pippin? I'm hoping my mind was just wandering (as it often does during this series)...

This show really makes me want to start my own where the great triple threats of our time recreate famous numbers by the triple threats of yesteryear. And maybe the triple threats of yesteryear could do modern stuff in return (I really wanna see Ben Vereen do Michael In The Bathroom). Those musical numbers are a real highlight and the best part of F/V!!!

[luvcaroline]

Posted: 4/25/19 at 5:39pm

TheQuibbler said:

I’m not as enamored with the overall show as much as I am with Williams. The pacing is off; teetering between feeling a bit rushed, bouncing around and never settling in long enough to truly engage, yet a tad dry when it does slow down. I’m enjoying the surface pleasures quite a lot but I think I’m missing something deeper. For me, show works best when they’re putting Fosse and Verdon’s processes front and center, such as in the “Big Spender” (I loved Gwen helping the dancer discover why she was leaning on the pole), “...Lola Wants” audition, and “Mein Herr” scenes. "

This is exactly how I feel about the show.  Some of the surface stuff is so spectacular that I forgive the shortcomings.  Even the tiny glimpse of “Two Ladies” in the editing room made me giddy. Michelle Williams is wonderful.  It really is a small miracle that this type of show is even on broadcast TV.

 

[A Director]

Posted: 4/25/19 at 7:01pm

bk said:

 It's all made up, that stuff, but really one shouldn't have "dramatic license" with characters based on real people.

Tell that to Shakespeare!

[Robbie2]

Posted: 4/25/19 at 8:24pm

Can't keep my eyes off Williams...she's  simply sublime ~ Give her the EMMY now!

Great piece in VF.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/04/fosse-verdon-michelle-williams-review

A Brilliant Michelle Williams Dances Away with Fosse/Verdon  ~ FX’s latest starry limited series features one of the Best TV Performances of the Year

[ggersten]

Posted: 4/26/19 at 9:12am

Ellin Stein is writing "fact v. fiction" on each episode of Fosse/Verdon.  (Which as others have noted is more aptly titled Verdon/Fosse). It's just a column, though, and not the last word.  

Episode 3: fact v. fiction