"Fans" of Musicals Who Don't Like Golden Age Musicals- Page 2

[Marguerite Chauvelin]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 11:36pm

My fancy goes in shifts. Right now it's on a lot of Sondheims, but I still love many other "Oldies". South Pacific, Damn Yankees, all the Porter musicals.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 11:57pm

Exactly Foscas. I don't really...like...Oklahoma!, but I certaintly understand and appreciate its influence and significance to the history of Broadway musicals.

I also think it's a matter of...what's available to really make those of us who weren't around for the Golden Age musicals fall in love with them. Guys & Dolls, since mentioned, is a perfect example. I saw the movie, the closest thing I had to seeing "the show." And I enjoyed it, thought it was cute, but I remember thinking that THIS is a classic? I don't get it.

Then this past year I actually played for G&D in community theatre. Actually seeing the show as it was originally written, live on the stage, totally made me see how great it is and why it is a classic.

[JustChillin8908]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 12:16am

This may sound like a stupid reason, but I have a hard time getting into "golden age" musicals simply because of the bad quality of the OBCR's. If all the "golden age" musicals were revived with new recordings then I would be able to accept them much more easily... please don't kill me.

[broadway_freak2]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 12:18am

As a teen in this new Broadway era and a student studying it, I my first Broadway musical was Cabaret. Even though how much I loved the show, (I still do, I love Cabaret to death.) I didn't start really exploring musical theatre until I found Wicked. It's a cute show, (please don't hurt me...) but now I find it a bit over-rated. I Love The Pajama Game, The Music Man, Into the Woods, Annie Get Your Gun, Fiddler on the Roof, She Loves Me, and Funny Girl. I also love Thoroughly Modern Millie, Charlie Brown, Drowsy Chaperone, Spelling Bee, Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, Rent, Phantom of the Opera... and the list goes on.

I love watching and learning about Bob Fosse, Chita Rivera, Gwen Verdon, Barbara Cook, and Liza Minelli. As well as Sutton Foster, Patti Lupone, Norbert Leo Butz and Sherie Rene Scott.

I honestly believe in the importance in know the past, knowing the musicals that led the way to the musicals playing today. I know exactly what you guys are talking about very well because I see it everyday. The Rentheads, The Wicked Freaks, and Chicago enthusiasts, but mention Oklahoma, or Bob Fosse and you have the same deer in the headlights look.

I truly don't get mad because they like these musicals. I get mad when they brush off the the Golden Age musicals as "stupid" or "gay." I get mad because of the ignorance.

Well thats my 2 cents, well more like a quarter...

[allofmylife]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 1:33am

For those of you, like me, who fall on the classic side, don't worry. We have the secret weapon. History. Soon, in a few years, half-a-decade at the most most of the shows that the kids love now will be distant memories. The history takes over. Personally, I believe time has already started to envelope Rent. The movie looked like a waxworks and in a few years it will be a period piece. Wicked has a huge audience of young girls but when they discover boys and sex the show will become another adolescent experience to fondly and glowingly remember and maybe pass on to their children (who will wonder what mom has been smoking). If you doubt what I'm saying ask yourself this question: if you stopped one hundred random people on the street of any city other than New York and asked them to name another show by Stephen Schwartz, how many do you think could do so. Pippin? One out of a hundred Godspell (maybe half-a-dozen). The man's stuff doesn't stay in the GENERAL public's conscience.

But ask them to name another show the guys who wrote The Sound of Music. Or tell you a song from Guys and Dolls, or A Funny Thing Happened. Or Fiddler. Or Cabaret. Or My Fair Lady.

Let's see Rent and Wicked pass the time test.

And while you're at it, quick ask some of your friends (be fair, not Wickedheads) to name a song from Wicked that isn't Popular or Defying Gravity.

I saw the show thrice. Couldn't name one....

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 1:36am

They are not really fans of musicals...they are fans of a certain show and maybe - possibly - down the line they might become fans of musicals.

You can tell them a mile away. They post questions like "Whats your favourie cast recording?" then answer "MY favourite is ..." Then another question "What show poster do you like best?" "I like best ." Then another question "Who's your favourite leading lady?" Then they answer "My favourite is " ...and on and on.

They never want to discuss any other show and get nasty if you suggest that maybe their show is not the greatest one ever written. They feel it is "the best show" because "it's my favourite and I only go and see over and over." They also insist on calling thair favourite show's cast album a "soundtrack."

By rights, they ought to be posting on their show's fan board but somehow they got into BWW and we're stuck with them.

The true fans of musicals understand the genre, know that most shows have stonger and weaker elements (hopefully the stronger ones prevail), want to see as many shows as possible, and want to build a representative library of cast recordings.

Group A? Group One?

[emo_geek]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 2:07am

I'm actually writing a 9 page essay on this.
It's not there fault

[BroomstickBoy]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 2:21am

I haven't really met anyone who would consider themselves a musical theatre fan and not be into a few classic musicals. I have some current, more mainstream favorites like Wicked, Rent, Aida, etc but I do really like the musicals of the Lerner&Loewe, Rogers & Hammerstein, and some of the jazz-oriented musicals. Recently I've fallen in love with the score for the King and I, since I've been doing it with a community theatre (although I never want to hear Getting to Know You EVER AGAIN) and the next musical they're doing for the spring next year is Crazy For You, which I'm very excited about because I love Gershwin. But my point is, I'm one of those teenagers who loves the pop/rock musical, but is still open-minded enough to enjoy some Golden Age Broadway. I'm just the curious type---and I know that most other theatre geeks are too, they just don't want to admit it because then that'd be changing something about their unique selves and that's a CRIME---who starts a snowball effect with one interest in a song or version or show and further gets to know others in the era/genre/composer reportoire. not really proving much of a point, just letting you know there are people like that out there, outside of the Green Girl stratosphere .

Lots of rambling on my part, I know. I'm done .

[Vespertine1228]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 2:24am

A few quick things:

I don't believe anyone can consider themselves a fan of musical theatre without enjoying musicals from a wide variety of decades. I know too many people who believe good musicals started with Phantom of the Opera, and quite frankly those people need serious help.

I think part of the problem is that some of the most classic musicals have been done so many times in a variety of venues that no one wants to see them again. In high school, our theatre program had the philosophy that we should do flops or unpopular shows that were still great shows since the audience is there for high school theatre no matter what the show actually is. That way, young people are introduced to a wider variety of things other than just Bye Bye Birdie and The Music Man.

[lesmisforever]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 2:49am

I consider myself to have quite a range of tastes when it comes to musicals. Some of my favorite "oldies but goodies" are My Fair Lady, South Pacific, Camelot, Man of La Mancha, The Sound of Music (I can't help loving it!), The King and I, West Side Story, Jesus Christ Superstar (it was made in the late 60/early 70s... please don't be insulted if that is not considered an oldie please!!!), Hair (haha), and others. I also like some newer ones like Evita (that's where my ALW love stops though), Les Miserables, Miss Saigon, RENT (I'm guilty, yes), Wicked (come on, it's a cute show!), and Chicago.

[allofmylife]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 3:35am

Of course they are cute shows. And that is what they will be relegated to in history. I just hope that a few of the people who think Wicked is the greatest work ever written for the Broadway stage expand their horizons (and yes, I know some will).

Oh and to Broomstickboy, I also find Getting To Know You saccharine. But I suppose we should give thanks that R&H didn't inflict the first version of the song on us. It was entitled "Suddenly Simple".

[InfiniteTheaterFrenzy]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 4:34am

Someone's probably already said what I'm about to say (I didn't read the whole thread)

Most young people have seen Golden Age musicals done badly or mediocre...ly at their local school/ church/ amateur theatre center--- and have seen shows like Wicked and Rent on Broadway. That's generally my opinion of what causes the discrepancy in taste.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 5:15am

I have a hard time getting into "golden age" musicals simply because of the bad quality of the OBCR's. If all the "golden age" musicals were revived with new recordings then I would be able to accept them much more easily.

Possibly. I am not sure what you mean by bad sound quality. Can you list some examples?

I am also not sure if some people, raised on modern mic-ing techniques that put the performers inside your ear instead of on a stage in front of you may find the older albums too distant and reverberent. (I prefer the open sound..makes me feel like I am sitting in the theatre as oppsed to having a private performance.)

Revivals don't often yield better recordings: The recent KISS ME KATE is good but Capitol's stero re-make withe the OC members is better. And the Bernadette Peters ANNIE was so heavily revised that it lost a good deal of the fun heard on Ethel Merman's 1966 album.

[Eastwickian]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 5:37am

I'm not really sure how to respond to this. I don't consider myself a fan of 'Golden age' musicals - I never want to see Oklahoma! again, South Pacific's earnest moralising sets my teeth on edge, and The Sound of Music just makes me want to kick puppies. Most of the shows that are even older have good scores, but terrible books and awful jokes (yes, Anything Goes, I mean you). In short, they're just twee.

There are exceptions of course. I absolutly adore My Fair Lady, and I could happily see Guys and Dolls over and over again. And I can see the importance of most of the R&H shows in the development of musicals as a form, but that doesn't mean I have to like them, does it?

And no, I'm not a Wicked fan either. At the end of the day, I'd rather see a completely new show than yet another revival of a hoary old 'classic'. Sorry

[FranklinShepard-Inc.]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 7:41am

I agree with most and would be curious, if some so called fans of musical theatre who don't at all like golden age musicals start posting in this thread. Up to now we all share a common opinion. I specifically agree with the thoughts about "hardcore" trends, people liking traditional showtune music has become rare and so has the liking of musicals incorporating this musical stylistics.

It would be easier if many people would at last acknowledge that the form of musical theatre hasn't changed in the whole but rather has broadened. Classic, golden age as you might call them, musicals are an integral part of it, even though there aren't many around who can write one any more. And even though theatrical producers have grown very fond of the Disney-concept (may they learn through Tarzan...).

[luvliza89]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 9:04am

Carousel or Bust!

Some of my favorite musicals are from the Golden Age (Carousel, GYPSY, Funny Girl, Kiss Me Kate etc). But it took awhile to get to that level for me. I understand about the "freasher" sound that OBCs have nowadays. I used to not be able to listen to Merman's Gypsy (I KNOW!). But after hearing the most recent revival of the show, I bought every single one of the Cast Recordings out there and fell in love with Merman, and esp Landsbury. Sometimes it takes that "freasher" sound for some of the young people to first get acquainted with the piece. That's how I used to be anyway.

[ashley0139]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 9:29am

This has irked me recently to no end. I'm kind of young (1, and cannot find anyone of my age to have an intelligent conversation about theatre about. It is the Golden Age thing, but it's also more than that. Their knowledge of theatre ends at Wicked, RENT, and Avenue Q. I do not know one person my age that knows or has any desire to listen to Light in the Piazza, See What I Wanna See, Wonderful Town, etc. It's really sad. They consider themselves theatre fans, but do not have any knowledge of its history. I suggested that some of them watch Broadway:The American Musical when it was on, and all they wanted to see was the Wicked and RENT parts. As an 18 year-old, I am still learning and trying to do everything I can to hear all types of theatre. Some of my favorites are West Side Story, Sound of Music, many of the Sondheims, Gypsy, etc. But I think this problem goes way beyond Golden Age. People don't even take the time get to know the lesser-known modern musicals.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 9:38am

Allmylife said "let's see Rent and Wicked pass the time test." Maybe I say this just because I'm a fan, but I think Rent will. I think you can compare Rent and Wicked best in terms of their fan bases, and maybe vaguely in terms of their themes of fitting in. But Rent, while not "Golden Age" by any means fits into the cannon of musical theatre, following in the footsteps of a show like Hair. In the same post, allmylife talked about history taking over and revealing the truer sort of virtue in musical theatre, etc -- I'll argue that Rent is part of that history. For as much as you can argue that it's not "edgy" and "revolutionary" anymore, it was revolutionary at its time -- and for as much as you can argue that it's picked up annoying fans and become something of a teen phenomenon, that doesn't negate that you *can* cannonize it as part of the history; the history that follows the Golden Age.

That said, I'm an R&H sucker. Not gonna lie. Oklahoma! was one of my first favorite shows, and I love it for all its cheesiness. So, even though I love Rent, y'all can't kick me.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 9:44am

1. Their fault, not there fault.

2. The qaulity of the cast recordings? You mean the fact that they actually sound like a show, and aren't recorded to sound like pop albums, like more and more cast recordings are starting to sound like? Besides, most of the big Golden Age cast recordings have been remastered, and sound superb.

3. I agree, and it sounds harsh, but I think if you hate Golden Age musicals, you in a way, aren't a true musical theatre fan. You basically are a fan of "certain musicals" but not a "musical fan".

[Patronus]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 9:53am

I didn't start really exploring musical theatre until I found Wicked. It's a cute show, (please don't hurt me...) but now I find it a bit over-rated. I Love The Pajama Game, The Music Man, Into the Woods, Annie Get Your Gun, Fiddler on the Roof, She Loves Me, and Funny Girl. I also love Thoroughly Modern Millie, Charlie Brown, Drowsy Chaperone, Spelling Bee, Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, Rent, Phantom of the Opera... and the list goes on.

I think this is why musicals like Wicked now and Rent ten years ago are important. For a lot of younger people they serve as a gateway into theatre. Not everyone chooses to walk through that gateway, but it does open the door for a lot of people.

In a way these new, spectacle shows legitimize Broadway and bring it to the attention of a main stream audience. If even 1 out of 50 people who see Wicked as a casual fan or tourist take that experience and start studying the history of theatre or even start attending more theatre then I think it's a fair trade off.

Sorry for going a bit off topic there.

As for me I think I have a nice balance of older and newer musicals. I think there is definitely something to the theory that it is a bit easier to embrace the older shows if that is what we grew up with. I went through my big Rent head phase, but I was very familiar with classics prior to that.

but I think if you hate Golden Age musicals, you in a way, aren't a true musical theatre fan. You basically are a fan of "certain musicals" but not a "musical fan".

I'd phrase it as "not being a well-rounded theatre musical fan."

[JudasIscariot]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 10:14am

Well, I consider myself a big fan, but I don't really like many of the "Golden Age" musicals.

Sure, there are a few I enjoy. I think The Sound of Music is one of the greatest shows ever written, and I like Gershwin musicals, as well as a few others.

It may be because I am younger, but I just have a greater appeal to the musicals written in the last twenty years, of course with exceptions with shows like The Man of la Mancha, which is one of my favorite shows of all time.

So yeah, I am a fan, I realise what the "Golden Age" did for theatre, I respect it, but I just am not very into it.

[ljay889]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 12:54pm

Being the person I am, I just can't understand how a fan of musicals can say they don't enjoy the musicals of the Golden Age. Hell, that's how I got into Broadway!

I grew up listening to Bye Bye Birdie, etc. And watching the movie, though it's far different from the Broadway show. It's still from that era. And at the age of probally 4-6, I was memorizing all the songs from the movie.

I never had no strong interest in RENT, nor I do I really find the score anything special. It has some of the worst lyrics that I've ever heard in a popular Broadway show. So I guess I'm just not the average teen Broadway fan.

It upsets me to think, that the average Broadway fan my age would have no idea who the composer Cy Coleman is. They couldn't tell me one of his scores, and that scares me.

[popular_elphie]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 1:08pm

More teenagers than you think like Golden Age musicals. I don't like them all, but mostly it's because I haven't heard the score or seen the show (I've never seen Hello, Dolly! or Guys and Dolls or Damn Yankees...etc, etc.).

However, The Music Man and The Pajama Game have been favorites of mine for quite a while (I liked The Pajama Game before I'd ever heard of Kelli O'Hara, so don't blame it on the new production or star power). I also love Carousel and West Side Story.

However, I still love the current musicals, and I think part of it is because they are here NOW, and I can go see it if I'd like to, instead of just listening to old cast recordings. I can't see The King and I or Funny Girl or Cabaret because there aren't any productions I know of at moment.

[ThankstoPhantom]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 1:13pm

I'm a teenager and I really am a fan of some Golden Age shows. i don't care what time period a show comes from, I may like some but hate others.

I love The King & I, The Music Man, and Carousel, but I dislike others.

I love shows from today and hate others.

If it's a good show, I like it.

But I'm not much of a fan of the frivolous. i like a good plot

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 5/13/06 at 1:31pm

I don't think it's fair to say that popular musicals today won't be remembered in history.

Whether you like it or not, Cats and Phantom are going to be well remembered in history for running for so long. Em clarified RENT's legacy, and Wicked can't be forgotten with so many people going to see it in that huge theatre.

Even Mamma Mia, whether we like it or not, has to be looked back as a show that had an influence on musical theatre.

To totally say that everything recent is pointless and won't at all be remembered is as bad as dismissing all the Golden Age musicals.