#26
Posted: 6/9/09 at 7:32am
Those three ladies who sang in the Mamma Mia segment should be banned from performing live for anyone!! They were truly hideous.
Here's why the touring shows WERE NEEDED at the Tony's — Page 2
#27
Posted: 6/9/09 at 7:51am
My sister LOVES her some Mamma Mia! and she actually commented to me on my facebook before I got to put something up about how bad that segment was.
IIRC, it didn't seem like anyone at the Beechman party was paying attention to that part after the first few notes. UGH!
IIRC, it didn't seem like anyone at the Beechman party was paying attention to that part after the first few notes. UGH!
Experience live theater. Experience paintings. Experience books. Live, look and listen like artists! ~ imaginethis
LIVE THAT LESSON!!!!!!
LIVE THAT LESSON!!!!!!
#28
Posted: 6/9/09 at 7:56am
I agree that Mamma Mia was screwed royally by the sound problems. You couldn't hear the chorus and your couldn't hear the orchestra.
It was just those three poor girls trying to fill Radio City Music Hall, which is why it seemed so amateurish.
It was just those three poor girls trying to fill Radio City Music Hall, which is why it seemed so amateurish.
#29
Posted: 6/9/09 at 9:52am
It wasn't just the sound problems that screwed Mamma Mia. It was terribly misrepresented. It would be like putting the end of the dancing curtain call to represent Billy Elliot.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#30
Posted: 6/9/09 at 10:26am
"I was having doubts about seeing it before the Tonys and I heard from people who saw the current tour cast and they all said it's not worth it."
So you got tickets because...? Just curious.
It is a shame how Mamma Mia was horribly misrepresented. While I agree it is not a revolutionary piece of theater, it is not as bad as people make it out to be, and that segment was just hideous.
So you got tickets because...? Just curious.
It is a shame how Mamma Mia was horribly misrepresented. While I agree it is not a revolutionary piece of theater, it is not as bad as people make it out to be, and that segment was just hideous.
"We like to snark around here. Sometimes we actually talk about theater...but we try not to let that get in our way." - dramamama611
#31
Posted: 6/9/09 at 10:33am
"If National Tours are going to be featured on the Tony broadcast, perhaps they should select better quality performers."
Or better-quality shows for that matter!
Or better-quality shows for that matter!
#32
Posted: 6/9/09 at 10:53am
My whole thing is this award show is about celebrating the current season on Broadway....Jersey Boys, Mamma Mia, and Leagally Blonde were celebrated in their debut season....they could have just shown quick clips of touring companies out there right now so there could have had a musical tribute to Jerry Herman who is a living legend
"Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life. Define yourself"
#33
Posted: 6/9/09 at 11:13am
"so there could have had a musical tribute to Jerry Herman who is a living legend"
Maybe I misread from another thread, but didn't Jerry just want musical clips?
Maybe I misread from another thread, but didn't Jerry just want musical clips?
"We like to snark around here. Sometimes we actually talk about theater...but we try not to let that get in our way." - dramamama611
#34
Posted: 6/9/09 at 12:23pm
Some longer scenes from the nominated new plays WERE NEEDED long before the touring shows--the more middlebrow the better!--gave their utterly mediocre performances.
"Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It's a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing.”
~ Muhammad Ali
Updated On: 6/9/09 at 12:23 PM
#35
Posted: 6/9/09 at 12:32pm
I do hope that the Tonys continue to acknowledge that theatre takes place beyond NYC.
That's a lovely sentiment, but that's not what the Tonys are. The purpose of the show is to acknowledge new productions on Broadway. That's it. Not touring productions, not Off-Broadway and certainly never replacements in long-running shows. There's one regional theatre award given and it's a glorified lifetime achievement award for the venue. The poor deprived touring audiences in Kansas City aren't the only ones who miss out, but that's not what this award show is about.
That's a lovely sentiment, but that's not what the Tonys are. The purpose of the show is to acknowledge new productions on Broadway. That's it. Not touring productions, not Off-Broadway and certainly never replacements in long-running shows. There's one regional theatre award given and it's a glorified lifetime achievement award for the venue. The poor deprived touring audiences in Kansas City aren't the only ones who miss out, but that's not what this award show is about.
Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how
Wanting life but never knowing how
#36
Posted: 6/9/09 at 12:54pm
The idea of featuring "Broadway across the nation" is not a bad one at all. But having the casts come and perform at Radio City Music Hall robs us of the local flavour of see how these shows perform on the road.
Years ago Tommy Tune did a number from BYE BYE BIRDIE (even accepting his Tony Award via remote). In 1994 the Toronto cast of the Broadway-bound SHOW BOAT did a number live from the theater here. (I was in the audience that night.)
Here's one from way back.
1973. The theme focused on the Wide World of Broadway featuring
WEST SIDE STORY (from Vienna); THE KING AND I (Tokyo); HELLO DOLLY (Paris); SHOW BOAT (London - with Cleo Laine); an original Italian musical called CIAO RUDY (Milan); and a Wichita Kansas High School production of MY FAIR LADY. Each segment ran about 5 minutes and featured some behind the scenes footage as well as one number or excerpts from a few numbers. It was fascinating and vastly entertaining.
Years ago Tommy Tune did a number from BYE BYE BIRDIE (even accepting his Tony Award via remote). In 1994 the Toronto cast of the Broadway-bound SHOW BOAT did a number live from the theater here. (I was in the audience that night.)
Here's one from way back.
1973. The theme focused on the Wide World of Broadway featuring
WEST SIDE STORY (from Vienna); THE KING AND I (Tokyo); HELLO DOLLY (Paris); SHOW BOAT (London - with Cleo Laine); an original Italian musical called CIAO RUDY (Milan); and a Wichita Kansas High School production of MY FAIR LADY. Each segment ran about 5 minutes and featured some behind the scenes footage as well as one number or excerpts from a few numbers. It was fascinating and vastly entertaining.
Cast albums are NOT "soundtracks."
Live theatre does not use a "soundtrack." If it did, it wouldn't be live theatre!
I host a weekly one-hour radio program featuring cast album selections as well as songs by cabaret, jazz and theatre artists. The program, FRONT ROW CENTRE is heard Sundays 9 to 10 am and also Saturdays from 8 to 9 am (eastern times) on www.proudfm.com
Updated On: 6/9/09 at 12:54 PM
#37
Posted: 6/9/09 at 12:55pm
Indeed, without getting into any commentary on the strengths or weaknesses of the touring companies, the truth is that the Tonys celebrate Broadway and should be confined to Broadway. There are many Off Broadway productions who would have benefitted greatly from being shown on CBS but that's not what the show is about. And the reality is that in most places outside New York you don't need a scene from "Mama Mia", "Jersey Boys" or "Legally Blonde" to get people excited about those shows, they know all about them from the movies or music. The plays running in New York, however, even on Broadway, need all the help they can get. A better use of time for the Tonys would have been to scrap the touring section and give more exposure to the shows they were nominating. The brief scenes we saw on the show are unlikely to get anyone excited to go see the shows.
#38
Posted: 6/9/09 at 12:56pm
By all means, lets restrict the Tonys to interest the fewest people possible. In fact, let's just show it in New York and not bother to broadcast it elsewhere... 
Broadway can't survive without theatergoers, and the Tonys are not just an acknowledgment of the art of theater, however nice that would be. In featuring something that the many, many viewers who are not in NY and may not be able to get to NY just might have a chance to see, I'm sure there was thought to the bottom line, but also, keeping people outside of NY who are not die-hard Broadway fans interested and engaged in the proceedings and theater in general.
If the touring shows had not been featured, that would not have assured that any of the things people are saying should have been shown, would have been shown, either.
The Mamma Mia presentation was bad, bad, bad, and there are any number of things about the presentation in general that I didn't love. But I really don't think that dedicating a few minutes to acknowledge that the rest of the country generally sees touring productions is a terrible thing.
Broadway can't survive without theatergoers, and the Tonys are not just an acknowledgment of the art of theater, however nice that would be. In featuring something that the many, many viewers who are not in NY and may not be able to get to NY just might have a chance to see, I'm sure there was thought to the bottom line, but also, keeping people outside of NY who are not die-hard Broadway fans interested and engaged in the proceedings and theater in general.
If the touring shows had not been featured, that would not have assured that any of the things people are saying should have been shown, would have been shown, either.
The Mamma Mia presentation was bad, bad, bad, and there are any number of things about the presentation in general that I didn't love. But I really don't think that dedicating a few minutes to acknowledge that the rest of the country generally sees touring productions is a terrible thing.
'"Contrairiwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."'
~Lewis Carroll
#39
Posted: 6/9/09 at 1:03pm
So, I rarely ever self-copy-pasta, but here's what I said in the other thread: the casual theatre fan 6 or 7 states away may not remember the Tonys from a few years ago when Jersey Boys, Mamma Mia or Legally Blonde performed, if they even saw it. This was a nice reminder, and good PR.
Sure, the Tonys are about Broadway, but they're also about theatre. I understand the Tonys are New York-centric, as they should be, but they're not New York-exclusive.
========
That said, I did think it was silly how many awards to relegated to the online stream only.
Sure, the Tonys are about Broadway, but they're also about theatre. I understand the Tonys are New York-centric, as they should be, but they're not New York-exclusive.
========
That said, I did think it was silly how many awards to relegated to the online stream only.
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
#40
Posted: 6/9/09 at 1:43pm
"That's a lovely sentiment, but that's not what the Tonys are. The purpose of the show is to acknowledge new productions on Broadway. That's it. Not touring productions, not Off-Broadway and certainly never replacements in long-running shows."
As terrible as the performances were from the touring shows, I don't see anything wrong with the Tonys acknowledging the touring productions (and I didn't hear anything in the broadcast acknowledging replacements or off-Broadway theater). Because Broadway is New York-centric, it is difficult to engage audiences across the nation to spend a lot of money to come to NYC, especially in the current economy. As LizzieCurry mentioned, it is a nice reminder to casual theatre fans living in other states.
In the case of the Oscars/Emmys/Grammys, movies/TV shows/music are much more accessible to the nation; however, with the Tonys, it is a bit more difficult to reach your audience because not everyone can make it to NYC. So, once again, it serves as a nice reminder that Broadway is not just in NYC.
As terrible as the performances were from the touring shows, I don't see anything wrong with the Tonys acknowledging the touring productions (and I didn't hear anything in the broadcast acknowledging replacements or off-Broadway theater). Because Broadway is New York-centric, it is difficult to engage audiences across the nation to spend a lot of money to come to NYC, especially in the current economy. As LizzieCurry mentioned, it is a nice reminder to casual theatre fans living in other states.
In the case of the Oscars/Emmys/Grammys, movies/TV shows/music are much more accessible to the nation; however, with the Tonys, it is a bit more difficult to reach your audience because not everyone can make it to NYC. So, once again, it serves as a nice reminder that Broadway is not just in NYC.
"We like to snark around here. Sometimes we actually talk about theater...but we try not to let that get in our way." - dramamama611
#41
Posted: 6/9/09 at 2:33pm
and I didn't hear anything in the broadcast acknowledging replacements or off-Broadway theater
That was my point. If those aren't acknowledged, why should tours be?
The Tonys are not New York-exclusive, they're Broadway-exclusive. If they should include touring productions, why not Off-Broadway? Think what Next to Normal's weekly grosses would look like if they had the chance to perform a song on last year's Tonys and had a year's worth of hype amongst tourists. How many Off-Broadway shows could become commercial hits if given that kind of exposure?
Or why not acknowledge regional productions and let people across America know about the great professional productions going on in their own backyard? I think Signature Theatre's production of Giant was more worthy of the attention than Mamma Mia, Jersey Boys or Legally Blonde.
Where do you draw the line and still make it fit in a 3-hour broadcast?
That was my point. If those aren't acknowledged, why should tours be?
The Tonys are not New York-exclusive, they're Broadway-exclusive. If they should include touring productions, why not Off-Broadway? Think what Next to Normal's weekly grosses would look like if they had the chance to perform a song on last year's Tonys and had a year's worth of hype amongst tourists. How many Off-Broadway shows could become commercial hits if given that kind of exposure?
Or why not acknowledge regional productions and let people across America know about the great professional productions going on in their own backyard? I think Signature Theatre's production of Giant was more worthy of the attention than Mamma Mia, Jersey Boys or Legally Blonde.
Where do you draw the line and still make it fit in a 3-hour broadcast?
Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how
Wanting life but never knowing how
Updated On: 6/9/09 at 02:33 PM
#42
Posted: 6/9/09 at 2:43pm
I'm also in the Midwest and agree that theatre and theatre fans existing outside of NYC need to be acknowledged, but I don't think it was the best idea. Most people who see tours don't watch the Tonys. There were two girls I overheard at the latest tour I saw (Avenue Q) who had no idea what In the Heights was, for instance, which indicates to me that they didn't watch the 2008 Tonys. And, giving those tours performance time took away from the plays. The productions of Jersey Boys and Mamma Mia! on which the tours are based already had their showcase on the Tonys. Also, those performances were simply terrible.
Honestly, most people I know who see tours just see a show when it hits here and nothing else. I think it's about availability for most people more than "Oh, I really want to see this show." I mean, most of these people are casual theatre fans, not hardcore enough to hang out at Broadway sites and learn about shows and listen to recordings and try to immerse themselves as much as possible without actually living in the area, but who still like going out and seeing live theatre. Like I said, those girls I talked about didn't know what In the Heights was, but they still wanted to see it.
Honestly, most people I know who see tours just see a show when it hits here and nothing else. I think it's about availability for most people more than "Oh, I really want to see this show." I mean, most of these people are casual theatre fans, not hardcore enough to hang out at Broadway sites and learn about shows and listen to recordings and try to immerse themselves as much as possible without actually living in the area, but who still like going out and seeing live theatre. Like I said, those girls I talked about didn't know what In the Heights was, but they still wanted to see it.
Jimmy, what are you doing here in the middle of the night? It's almost 9 PM!
Updated On: 6/9/09 at 02:43 PM
#43
Posted: 6/9/09 at 2:53pm
I just don't think that the "slippery slope" is necessarily valid. It's not like showcasing three touring shows this year means that in the future anything more would automatically happen.
Would they really have given more time to the plays if the touring productions weren't there? Maybe. But also maybe not. I'm sure there were a number of things up for consideration and they tried to strike a good balance (wasn't Wall-E supposed to be there and got cut?).
I really think that it was an attempt to be inclusive rather than exclusive. Whether it was a good attempt or whether it succeeded is up to interpretation, but I just don't understand the outrage. And it's not like every person in New York or who sees something on Broadway is extremely knowledgeable about all the shows, either.
Would they really have given more time to the plays if the touring productions weren't there? Maybe. But also maybe not. I'm sure there were a number of things up for consideration and they tried to strike a good balance (wasn't Wall-E supposed to be there and got cut?).
I really think that it was an attempt to be inclusive rather than exclusive. Whether it was a good attempt or whether it succeeded is up to interpretation, but I just don't understand the outrage. And it's not like every person in New York or who sees something on Broadway is extremely knowledgeable about all the shows, either.
'"Contrairiwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."'
~Lewis Carroll
#44
Posted: 6/9/09 at 3:11pm
Did I like the touring numbers? No...
But I totally get why they did it. It shows how Broadway is right in your own backyard. It is for people outside of the New York area to say, "Hey, let's go see that touring production" and create more business for the tours. (I have to say, just based on those performances, I wouldn't see the tour)
But I totally get why they did it. It shows how Broadway is right in your own backyard. It is for people outside of the New York area to say, "Hey, let's go see that touring production" and create more business for the tours. (I have to say, just based on those performances, I wouldn't see the tour)
#45
Posted: 6/9/09 at 3:38pm
Trouble is it wasn't 'a few minutes' but 3 dedicated segments and 3 full on production numbers. A medley would have sufficed. that's about 10 minutes of air time.
#46
Posted: 6/9/09 at 4:27pm
Touring companies did perfectly fine before they were ever featured on the Tony Awards. No need to start featuring them now, especially since the examples that were shown were sub par.
#47
Posted: 6/9/09 at 4:30pm
Touring companies did perfectly fine before they were ever featured on the Tony Awards.
Not always.
Not always.
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
#48
Posted: 6/9/09 at 4:33pm
Why not just feature them in a 3 to 5 minute block then, like last year when they had Mermaid, Catred Affair, and Young Frankenstein perform, instead of seperate performances? So you can actually give some time to the plays instead of the crappy minute taped clips. I think the Plays are the ones that got really hurt by having the touring companies perform
"Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life. Define yourself"
#49
Posted: 6/9/09 at 4:37pm
I for one was glad that the Broadway League and the American Theatre Wing finally came together to televise something that regular theatre attendees and fans, and the average joe could enjoy. Sure, there were a lot of mishaps, but for a first outing at least they tried.
As much as I hate to say it, the Tony Awards have been stuck in the past, people are forgetting what the magic of Broadway is and finally someone decided to try something new. Maybe next year they will show scenes of shows playing at various regional theatres. But at least people are going to remember seeing 3 scenes from touring productions - maybe not great performances - but the names are easy to remember.
This does make me wonder which shows they asked to perform, and who turned the offer down to get the 3 that were presented.
As much as I hate to say it, the Tony Awards have been stuck in the past, people are forgetting what the magic of Broadway is and finally someone decided to try something new. Maybe next year they will show scenes of shows playing at various regional theatres. But at least people are going to remember seeing 3 scenes from touring productions - maybe not great performances - but the names are easy to remember.
This does make me wonder which shows they asked to perform, and who turned the offer down to get the 3 that were presented.
#50
Posted: 6/9/09 at 5:46pm
"That was my point. If those aren't acknowledged, why should tours be?
The Tonys are not New York-exclusive, they're Broadway-exclusive. If they should include touring productions, why not Off-Broadway? Think what Next to Normal's weekly grosses would look like if they had the chance to perform a song on last year's Tonys and had a year's worth of hype amongst tourists. How many Off-Broadway shows could become commercial hits if given that kind of exposure?
Or why not acknowledge regional productions and let people across America know about the great professional productions going on in their own backyard? I think Signature Theatre's production of Giant was more worthy of the attention than Mamma Mia, Jersey Boys or Legally Blonde.
Where do you draw the line and still make it fit in a 3-hour broadcast?"
The difference is, is that these shows were once shows on Broadway. Off Broadway and Regional Productions were never on Broadway. These tour were at one time and it gives that "Broadway Show Coming To Your Town" marketing potential. So that is where you can draw the line.
As some people have suggested, maybe better shows should have been selected. Mary Poppins (which has many Broadway originals in it including the leads), A Chorus Line, Wicked, Dreamgirls, etc. There were some other shows with, IMO, much better casts that could have been featured.
I think the issue was more in the shows they selected to feature than the idea of taking 3 touring companies and promoting them at the Tony's. It took a whole 10-15 minutes out of the broadcast...big deal. You have a captive audience interested in theater from across the county, why not use it to promote the tours. Just someone needs to pick better shows and performers....ha!!!!
The Tonys are not New York-exclusive, they're Broadway-exclusive. If they should include touring productions, why not Off-Broadway? Think what Next to Normal's weekly grosses would look like if they had the chance to perform a song on last year's Tonys and had a year's worth of hype amongst tourists. How many Off-Broadway shows could become commercial hits if given that kind of exposure?
Or why not acknowledge regional productions and let people across America know about the great professional productions going on in their own backyard? I think Signature Theatre's production of Giant was more worthy of the attention than Mamma Mia, Jersey Boys or Legally Blonde.
Where do you draw the line and still make it fit in a 3-hour broadcast?"
The difference is, is that these shows were once shows on Broadway. Off Broadway and Regional Productions were never on Broadway. These tour were at one time and it gives that "Broadway Show Coming To Your Town" marketing potential. So that is where you can draw the line.
As some people have suggested, maybe better shows should have been selected. Mary Poppins (which has many Broadway originals in it including the leads), A Chorus Line, Wicked, Dreamgirls, etc. There were some other shows with, IMO, much better casts that could have been featured.
I think the issue was more in the shows they selected to feature than the idea of taking 3 touring companies and promoting them at the Tony's. It took a whole 10-15 minutes out of the broadcast...big deal. You have a captive audience interested in theater from across the county, why not use it to promote the tours. Just someone needs to pick better shows and performers....ha!!!!
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