Is it possible to like Hamilton if you hate rap?- Page 2

[tazber]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 8:04am

Also not a fan of rap.

But a big fan of both In the Heights and Venice (at least the CR of Venice) for example.

This isn't "Holler If You Hear Me" rap.

I don't know if that makes sense, but I truly believe that if you like musical theater this will appeal to you.

[NYadgal]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 8:16am

Kad - exactly.   

[Jane2]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 9:34am

I appreciate the responses to my anti rap post. Is the rap in Hamilton basically the rapid speaking of words in some sort of cadence, though?

 

btw- I categorize all of rap the same way because I see it performed all the time on tv, for all the years it's been around and that's the only kind  I've seen. Never saw any other kind.

Updated On: 8/7/15 at 09:34 AM

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 9:37am

 

I keep reading this as "Is it possible to like Hamilton if you hate rape?"

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 9:39am

Jane, yes, sometimes. But rap is not the only kind of music (or "music," if you prefer) in the show.

I'm not the world's biggest rap or hip-hop fan--though living with a dj for years, I heard a lot of it--and I loved this show. I found the lyrics brilliant and enlightening (apt for a show set partly during the Enlightenment), and the music beautiful and very often moving.

And I wear a top hat, for god's sake . . .

[Jane2]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 9:46am

ok ok! If the opportunity arises, I'll see it.

(I know, who cares?) 

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 9:56am

Jane, it may still turn out not to be your cup of tea.

You should check out the various clips online. While they don't convey the scale of the show, they do give you a good idea of the kind of music you'd be hearing.

[Jane2]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 9:57am

good idea Reg!

[jnb9872]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 1:01pm

I categorize all of rap the same way because I see it performed all the time on tv, for all the years it's been around and that's the only kind  I've seen. Never saw any other kind.

Totally fair, but you also might draw the conclusion that you hate music you see performed on tv.

For years, I was an "anything but Country" music listener. Then listening to Wilco and Drive-By Truckers got me into Alt-Country like Son Volt, the Jayhawks, Lucinda Williams and Ryan Adams. That got me to go back to Steve Earle and then to Outlaw Country like Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson. They, in turn, took me further back to the original troubadours like Hank Williams and Woody Guthrie. Meanwhile, having a firmer grasp on the family tree, I looked into newer artists within Country who were influenced by the acts I'd found I liked. That's when I found Hayes Carll and Sturgill Simpson and Kacey Musgraves. And then I looked into their other influences and kept listening and learning...

The point is, when you let others (tv shows, for instance) curate for you, your tastes for a genre are reflexive: you either like or don't like what's given to you and that's as far as your engagement goes. When you investigate for yourself, and try to take a grasp of the genre from whatever foothold you start with, and follow your own path through the tangled maze of influences, you develop an understanding and appreciation for what you like and don't like. Rap has many styles and periods, many brilliant artists and many shallow poseurs. If Lin and HAMILTON are a foothold you can use, it's worth investigating. But I wouldn't write off a show just because it uses a form of music I've only passively engaged with and tuned out.

[ScottyDoesn'tKnow2]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 1:08pm

My question is if you'll like Hamilton if you actually really like rap/hip-hop. I didn't like the music of In the Heights or Lin Miguel Miranda's rapping voice. 

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 1:15pm

Based upon what Taz, Addy and  Reginald is saying, I think I may go get the cast album.  

 

I won't be able to see it, unless I end up back in New York before it closes.  Which is very likely...

[Jane2]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 1:28pm

thanks jnb. I think generation has something to do with it also. I'm a lot older than the rap demographic. I just don't get the entire genre.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 2:40pm

Also, out here in CA, EVERY commercial break is showing the commercial for STRAIGHT OUTTA COMPTON, about the start of rap and NWA.  EVERY SINGLE COMMERCIAL BREAK.

So, I've been sick and tired of that...

[haterobics]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 2:55pm

"I keep reading this as "Is it possible to like Hamilton if you hate rape?""

I think the answer is still yes.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 3:14pm

LOL

 

[Lilly7]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 4:21pm

There's many other musical genres in the show that even if you dislike rap, I would wager that you would still enjoy the show. Some of the rap songs are also slow down enough that I would liken them more to spoken word than rap. 

However, I would like to highlight the important ties rap has to the show. Rap has long been seen as a form of expression mostly for minorities. Hip-hop was created out a social/political/cultural movement that allowed people, mostly young people, to have a voice. That's why it's the perfect music for a show like Hamilton, especially since all of the founding fathers are played by minorities. 

[decast]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 6:09pm

There's 10 minutes of footage on this site so I'd say have a look at that, there's quite a lot to show the show off, and have that help make a decision

[BroadwayFan12]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 8:25pm

Jane, I'm 25, so it isn't necessarily an age thing. You just have good taste.

[Sutherland]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 8:35pm

Actually, middle-period Stravinsky IS close to Bach, but I know what you mean. 

Things I don't like about rap:  the rhymes are usually awful and are not rhymes at all (e.g. party and body are not a rhyme, except in rap), and they are often obscene, sexist, and racist; the patter often doesn't make any sense if you slow it down and try to follow a line of thinking; in some styles of rap, they don't even follow the beat, which sort of defeats the purpose, to me; I consider it the death of melody--you usually don't have to write a tune, or you only need to write a short one-line phrase to start each verse; the ideas expressed in MOST rap (at least the rap I have heard) are violent and destructive--yes, I know that the words "happy" and "rap" don't need to go together, and I realize that rap is supposed to expressive urban frustration and hopelessness, but to me it it merely angry people getting paid an enormous amount of money to complain about their supposed poverty; I hate the rap mannerisms, the walking back and forth, the meaningless hand gestures, the stupid monotone of rap "artists" voices.

That said, the rap that I have heard Miranda write IS infinitely smarter than most, has better rihymes, has a much more intricate use of rhythm.  I am looking forward, if I can get in, to being swept away by Hamilton.  But to me, Lorenz Hart says more in 5 words than any rap "song" I have ever heard does in 5,000.

P.S.  From the clips I have seen, do we really think this is a show that is going to age well, as innovative as it seems to many right now?  Will Angelica and the ladies all going "Werk!" really not seem embarrassing in 30 years time, the way the "groovy" language in 60s shows like "Applause" or "Your Own Thing" do today?  Every era, sadly and mistakenly, thinks it is the ultimate in cool.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 8:55pm

"do we really think this is a show that is going to age well, as innovative as it seems to many right now? "

Why should we care?  I'd rather think that  in 30 years there will be so much fantastic theatre being made that we will not have the space or inclination to mount revivals. Relegate them to non-profits where we can bask in the quaintness of the language and music of bygone eras. 

[MichelleCraig]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 9:06pm

To OP...a valid question. I do not like hip-hop or rap music, but I think Hamilton transcends. I love what I've seen and heard in the nearly 10 minutes of clips available online. Hell, I'm reading the Chernow book now; Lin's inspiration.

I wasn't a big fan of Rent, but I remembered when A Chorus Line brought mass market attention back to Broadway. I hope Hamilton does the same!

[Lilly7]

Posted: 8/7/15 at 10:21pm

Things I don't like about rap:  the rhymes are usually awful and are not rhymes at all (e.g. party and body are not a rhyme, except in rap), and they are often obscene, sexist, and racist; 

Far be it for me to judge another's taste in music but if this is you view on all rap music, you unfortunately have a very narrow view. It's true that a lot of rap songs do focus on partying and objectifying women but so does even other mainstream genre of music out there.  And for every rap song that only focuses on partying that's out there, I can name one that's meaningful and profound. You can't tell me that lines like 

"Don't push me cause I'm close to the edge, I'm trying not to lose my head. It's like a jungle. Sometimes it makes me wonder, how I keep from going under." or

"I never sleep 'cause sleep is the cousin of death" 

are not clever or art. 

"do we really think this is a show that is going to age well, as innovative as it seems to many right now?  Will Angelica and the ladies all going "Werk!" really not seem embarrassing in 30 years time, the way the "groovy" language in 60s shows like "Applause" or "Your Own Thing" do today?"

 Hip-hop has been around for decades, I don't think it's going anywhere. 

[DivaProf]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 6:12am

"Don't push me cause I'm close to the edge, I'm trying not to lose my head. It's like a jungle. Sometimes it makes me wonder, how I keep from going under."

According to Wikipedia those lyrics from The Message are from 1982.  I remember hearing them as a pre-teen!  It's weird to think about it, but the "rap demographic" is actually now middle aged (and younger of course).  If they were still alive, TuPac would be 44 and Biggie would be 43.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 7:03am

 Art is subjective. Yes, someone can tell you the quote you posted is not art, and they wouldn't be wrong.

Why take people's opinions so personally?  We're allowed not to like rap and hip hop.

[Jane2]

Posted: 8/8/15 at 8:56am

"It's true that a lot of rap songs do focus on partying and objectifying women but so does even other mainstream genre of music out there. "

Please post examples of the other genres which FOCUS on partying and objectifying women.

btw, the first rap song I ever heard was Blondie's "Rapture" in 1980. Didn't care for it then either.