#51
Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:32am
No hate here; just fascinated by the unexpected horserace this season. I think it shows there's a lot of talent all around.
KINKY BOOTS to win the Tony over MATILDA? — Page 3
#52
Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:32am
Just because its sales are good and Tony voters are loving it does not mean that things have been changed.
I have asked numerous times on this board what things differ from the Chicago run and have been told over and over that there were very few tweaks made. Chris Jones, in his review when “Kinky” opened on Broadway, mentioned that things work better, but barely mentioned what was changed to make it better. I even asked in the “Kinky” review thread if anyone could expand on what Chris Jones might have been referring to when he mentioned changes and, again, was told that not very much was actually changed. I am not trying to convince anyone that there were little changes, it is just the only thing I have heard on this board.
Just to mention, I am very glad that “Kinky” is doing so well – I just don’t understand those lauding the score or its artistic merit as worthy of a Best Musical Tony (obviously, I know that artistic merit is not always what earns a show this honor).
I was much giddier after I left JEKYLL & HYDE than when I left GOLDEN BOY, but that alone does not determine which show deserves a Tony vote...
Exactly.
I have asked numerous times on this board what things differ from the Chicago run and have been told over and over that there were very few tweaks made. Chris Jones, in his review when “Kinky” opened on Broadway, mentioned that things work better, but barely mentioned what was changed to make it better. I even asked in the “Kinky” review thread if anyone could expand on what Chris Jones might have been referring to when he mentioned changes and, again, was told that not very much was actually changed. I am not trying to convince anyone that there were little changes, it is just the only thing I have heard on this board.
Just to mention, I am very glad that “Kinky” is doing so well – I just don’t understand those lauding the score or its artistic merit as worthy of a Best Musical Tony (obviously, I know that artistic merit is not always what earns a show this honor).
I was much giddier after I left JEKYLL & HYDE than when I left GOLDEN BOY, but that alone does not determine which show deserves a Tony vote...
Exactly.
#53
Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:36am
Sometimes, a director can change something as simple as the color of a lighting gel, the timing of an entrance, or the color of an actor's shirt and it makes all the difference in storytelling. I think it's very easy not to notice really great directing.
#54
Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:37am
NEWINTOWN nailed it!!
Matilda is a thinking person's show. It's lyrics made me FEEL something and changed my pov. I am shocked to hear the backlash too as I found it one of the most gratifying theater experiences in the past 10 years! If people leave depressed (which I do not get either), it's not necessarily a bad thing. Did anyone leave Sunday in the Park... giddy? or Company? or Sweeney Todd? Yet these musicals historically changed us in some way. So it makes you FEEL something uncomfortable? So what!! Since when is toe-tapping a barometer?
Also, Elena Roger proved particular Broadway audiences do not like accents. :)
Matilda is a thinking person's show. It's lyrics made me FEEL something and changed my pov. I am shocked to hear the backlash too as I found it one of the most gratifying theater experiences in the past 10 years! If people leave depressed (which I do not get either), it's not necessarily a bad thing. Did anyone leave Sunday in the Park... giddy? or Company? or Sweeney Todd? Yet these musicals historically changed us in some way. So it makes you FEEL something uncomfortable? So what!! Since when is toe-tapping a barometer?
Also, Elena Roger proved particular Broadway audiences do not like accents. :)
#55
Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:41am
Wow. I've seen Matilda a few times in London. If anything, I've always come out of the show overjoyed, touched and I guess this a personal journey of sorts, but Matilda has played an important role since I moved up to this city, and has always been a reminder of it doesn't matter how 'little' you are or feel, you can still do a 'lot', even when others or forces try to get on top of you.
As a young adult who just entered the real world, (post-education), I've faced many difficulties, challenges and been through many ups and downs. Yet Matilda's story and message has made me feel yes, a person of my nature can go on to achieve many great things, no matter who I am and that 'When I grow up', I will reach up to those branches and be on top of the world. And that everything will be okay.
Again, personal experiences, but I've felt moved and inspired with each viewing and that I have grown up onto the next step.
And I think it's a shame there has a been a surge of dismissive reviews, but hey, that's the beauty of theatre, is that it moves and touches us in different ways.
Yet to see Kinky Boots and it has become an essential on my list.
But I for one, would be a most happy guy to see Matilda take home the Tony.
As a young adult who just entered the real world, (post-education), I've faced many difficulties, challenges and been through many ups and downs. Yet Matilda's story and message has made me feel yes, a person of my nature can go on to achieve many great things, no matter who I am and that 'When I grow up', I will reach up to those branches and be on top of the world. And that everything will be okay.
Again, personal experiences, but I've felt moved and inspired with each viewing and that I have grown up onto the next step.
And I think it's a shame there has a been a surge of dismissive reviews, but hey, that's the beauty of theatre, is that it moves and touches us in different ways.
Yet to see Kinky Boots and it has become an essential on my list.
But I for one, would be a most happy guy to see Matilda take home the Tony.
Everything in life...is only for now.
#56
Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:42am
@dreaming I honestly don't think Stark Sands and Billy Porter will cancel each other out, first and foremost because Stark is campaigning for Porter. I know it is unusal for a nominee to state that their competitor is more deserving and should win, but Stark is doing it.
Also I think Cinderella already won Orchestrations...have you heard the cd or seen the show?!? Its a way to honor Rogers and Hammerstien as well as it being the only show with a full orchestra. The only way it won't happen is if Kinky Boots and Matilda split score and orchestrations which I don't think will happen.
Also I think Cinderella already won Orchestrations...have you heard the cd or seen the show?!? Its a way to honor Rogers and Hammerstien as well as it being the only show with a full orchestra. The only way it won't happen is if Kinky Boots and Matilda split score and orchestrations which I don't think will happen.
#57
Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:46am
The crowd at MATILDA felt like the producers of BILLY ELLIOT after their highly awarded (and expensive to run with all of those children) show fizzled...
#58
Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:47am
This "happiness" argument is ludicrous. No one of any respectability judges the artistic merit of any work by the happiness it makes you feel. I walked out of Mamma Mia smiling and humming ABBA but also thought it was one of the worst shows (and I think still is) that I've ever seen on Broadway. I'm not equating Mamma Mia with Kinky Boots as Kinky is a far superior show in every aspect but just illustrating that happiness ? merit.
I had a joyously good time at Kinky Boots but am not deluding myself into thinking it deserves best musical. The score is uplifting but not brilliant, the staging and costumes are over the top but predictable, the book is amateurish at best, Billy Porter is decent. Kinky Boots does end up being more than just the mere some of its parts but it still is a fun, worthwhile musical that genuinely doesn't warrant much artistic merit.
I can understand the frustration with Matilda. It's been over-praised to the moon, much like other very good shows that have hit Broadway recently like The Book of Mormon and Once. Also, the book is a bit more slow and subtle than Kinky Boots. The score has brilliant moments like "Naughty" and "When I Grow Up" but is a bit uneven, which is why I wouldn't mind it losing to Kinky Boots in that category. But everything else is unquestionably superior about Matilda, the sets, the lighting, the staging, the direction, and yes, the performances.
I had a joyously good time at Kinky Boots but am not deluding myself into thinking it deserves best musical. The score is uplifting but not brilliant, the staging and costumes are over the top but predictable, the book is amateurish at best, Billy Porter is decent. Kinky Boots does end up being more than just the mere some of its parts but it still is a fun, worthwhile musical that genuinely doesn't warrant much artistic merit.
I can understand the frustration with Matilda. It's been over-praised to the moon, much like other very good shows that have hit Broadway recently like The Book of Mormon and Once. Also, the book is a bit more slow and subtle than Kinky Boots. The score has brilliant moments like "Naughty" and "When I Grow Up" but is a bit uneven, which is why I wouldn't mind it losing to Kinky Boots in that category. But everything else is unquestionably superior about Matilda, the sets, the lighting, the staging, the direction, and yes, the performances.
Scratch and claw for every day you're worth!
Make them drag you screaming from life, keep dreaming
You'll live forever here on earth.
#59
Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:48am
I don't think Sands is a factor at all. He's just a place holder.
It's Porter vs. Carvel and I'm not even going to make a prediction it's so close (hoping for Carvel though).
It's Porter vs. Carvel and I'm not even going to make a prediction it's so close (hoping for Carvel though).
....but the world goes 'round
#60
Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:50am
"I don't get the excitement for Kinky Boots. I thought it was predictable, preachy, and had me rolling my eyes through most of it. As a gay guy, I'm also tired of drag queens as some sort of epitomization of gay culture. Do not want"
I totally agree with this statement. The only drag queens i want to see on Broadway are the ones in RENT and LA CAGE. I seriously role my eyes every time some Stereotypical sassy Black drag queen is in a show. Its getting REALLY old....
I totally agree with this statement. The only drag queens i want to see on Broadway are the ones in RENT and LA CAGE. I seriously role my eyes every time some Stereotypical sassy Black drag queen is in a show. Its getting REALLY old....
#61
Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:50am
Could this be a repeat of what happened with Avenue Q/Wicked? EVERYONE was thinking Wicked was the shoo-in, but, for whatever (political) reasons. the gold went to Avenue Q. I don't notice Wicked hurting at the box office but Avenue Q's Broadway run is a thing of the past. And I don't think Matilda will ever have the popular appeal of Wicked (note I say "popular").
BroadwayEd
#62
Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:53am
If the Broadway community really embraces KINKY BOOTS, they'll award it score and possibly Billy Porter in an upset. But MATILDA is a franchise -- a theatrical juggernat with years of play ahead of it internationally and on the road, etc. It's pretty unthinkable that it will lose the big prize to a well meaning, clumsy but earnest underdog musical about drag queens...
#63
Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:55am
Sometimes, a director can change something as simple as the color of a lighting gel, the timing of an entrance, or the color of an actor's shirt and it makes all the difference in storytelling. I think it's very easy not to notice really great directing.
The biggest issues I have with the show, however, were how the show was written: score, structure, and book. A director (and actors) can definitely help cover flaws in the written material, but Mitchell can’t change the structure of scenes, the generality of the songs, nor how preachy the dialogue is.
Matilda is a thinking person's show. It's lyrics made me FEEL something and changed my pov. I am shocked to hear the backlash too as I found it one of the most gratifying theater experiences in the past 10 years! If people leave depressed (which I do not get either), it's not necessarily a bad thing. Did anyone leave Sunday in the Park... giddy? or Company? or Sweeney Todd? Yet these musicals historically changed us in some way. So it makes you FEEL something uncomfortable? So what!! Since when is toe-tapping a barometer?
Completely agree. I can’t speak for “Matilda” as a whole, but this is what I get out of listening to the cast recording. And, exactly, leaving a show contemplative or sad does not denote less worth. Musicals that leave you toe-tapping and giddy at the end are great, but I don’t think that that should deem a show more worthy of the Tony over one that doesn’t do that.
The biggest issues I have with the show, however, were how the show was written: score, structure, and book. A director (and actors) can definitely help cover flaws in the written material, but Mitchell can’t change the structure of scenes, the generality of the songs, nor how preachy the dialogue is.
Matilda is a thinking person's show. It's lyrics made me FEEL something and changed my pov. I am shocked to hear the backlash too as I found it one of the most gratifying theater experiences in the past 10 years! If people leave depressed (which I do not get either), it's not necessarily a bad thing. Did anyone leave Sunday in the Park... giddy? or Company? or Sweeney Todd? Yet these musicals historically changed us in some way. So it makes you FEEL something uncomfortable? So what!! Since when is toe-tapping a barometer?
Completely agree. I can’t speak for “Matilda” as a whole, but this is what I get out of listening to the cast recording. And, exactly, leaving a show contemplative or sad does not denote less worth. Musicals that leave you toe-tapping and giddy at the end are great, but I don’t think that that should deem a show more worthy of the Tony over one that doesn’t do that.
Updated On: 5/7/13 at 11:55 AM
#64
Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:55am
Avenue Q won because it is the better show.
#65
Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:58am
I see KINKY boots making more money globally than MATILDA. That's my point.
#66
Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:58am
I see KINKY boots making more money globally than MATILDA. That's my point.
#67
Posted: 5/7/13 at 11:58am
AVENUE Q also got cross the board raves over WICKED's very tepid response. There were also factors that went into play into AVENUE Q's winning that are no longer part of how the Tony voting process works. I would dare say some of those changes were made because of the aftermath of AVENUE Q winning.
Corky, please don't ever become a Broadway producer if you truly believe Kinky Boots is going to make more money internationally than MATILDA.
Corky, please don't ever become a Broadway producer if you truly believe Kinky Boots is going to make more money internationally than MATILDA.
Updated On: 5/7/13 at 11:58 AM
#68
Posted: 5/7/13 at 12:00pm
KINKY BOOTS is a pleasant, feel-good show with a few good songs and charming performances, if somewhat over the top in some cases. MATILDA just seems overall better crafted to me, and it leaves you thinking about such things as abuse, parenting and fantasy.
Actually, my favorite show of the year has no chance: A CHRISTMAS STORY. So entertaining, so beautifully choreographed and performed on all levels.
Actually, my favorite show of the year has no chance: A CHRISTMAS STORY. So entertaining, so beautifully choreographed and performed on all levels.
#69
Posted: 5/7/13 at 12:01pm
This race is nothing like Avenue Q vs. Wicked. There's no scrappy downtown underdog here.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#70
Posted: 5/7/13 at 12:02pm
^ Thank you. And it's also nothing like NEWSIES vs ONCE.
#71
Posted: 5/7/13 at 12:14pm
They are both huge, big splashy new musicals. They are essentially the same kind of show. No underdog at all.
I just think Matilda is the more smartly put together show. Kinky Boots is fun, but there's just not a lot going on there. I think that's why people like it. It doesn't involve thinking, it doesn't challenge you at all, it just is plain ol' fun. I remember when I saw the show and they wheeled out that old black man in a wheelchair and the whole audience gasped when Billy Porter said "Hello father." I was like, really? That was a surprise to anyone? Stupid. The show just gets super preachy and spells everything out for you, which is probably why most of you all like it. You don't have to think about it after it's over except that "Omg, I love that song because it's so easy to remember." Yeah, it's easy to remember because the lyrics are "say yeah." There's nothing else to it. I thought the physical production was pretty ugly too. And the choreography was amateur and boring. On the flip side, from the first 5 mins of Matilda, I thought the choreography was insanely brilliant.
I just think Matilda is the more smartly put together show. Kinky Boots is fun, but there's just not a lot going on there. I think that's why people like it. It doesn't involve thinking, it doesn't challenge you at all, it just is plain ol' fun. I remember when I saw the show and they wheeled out that old black man in a wheelchair and the whole audience gasped when Billy Porter said "Hello father." I was like, really? That was a surprise to anyone? Stupid. The show just gets super preachy and spells everything out for you, which is probably why most of you all like it. You don't have to think about it after it's over except that "Omg, I love that song because it's so easy to remember." Yeah, it's easy to remember because the lyrics are "say yeah." There's nothing else to it. I thought the physical production was pretty ugly too. And the choreography was amateur and boring. On the flip side, from the first 5 mins of Matilda, I thought the choreography was insanely brilliant.
#72
Posted: 5/7/13 at 12:16pm
So now if I feel nothing when I see Matilda, even if it's depression, I'm an idiot- ok, that's valid-wtf!? Also, I seriously doubt Matilda has the global staying power of a Wicked. Let's see how it fares in the states when the must see player, Carvel, ends his run. Sorry, but a green witch belting to the rafters appeals to the blue hairs and tourists more than 4 little girls sharing a part, mass audiences aren't into theatre as a craft, the show that's bigger, louder, faster, always wins, again take, Hardbody for example. I don't buy the global staying power argument either, but I ceratinly don't think I'm an idiot if I see Matilda and feel nothing either! I said it before may the best show win! But let's not assault each other's taste levels, because a majority of posters on here have taste purely in their mouth. If you don't get that comment, you may want to re-evaluate if you are a "thinking person". I'm in the biz, so no need to assualt whether or not I know what I'm talking about either. Move on.
#73
Posted: 5/7/13 at 12:21pm
"The biggest issues I have with the show, however, were how the show was written: score, structure, and book. A director (and actors) can definitely help cover flaws in the written material…"
Oh, sorry – I was just commenting on how small changes in direction that one hardly notices can make a big difference. But the book and score of Kinky Boots were also changed quite a lot from Chicago -- that's been noted on these boards and in the press. For example, the boxing match between Lola and Don was restaged, the fight between Charlie & Lola was re-written in Act II, and a couple of songs were changed.
I was just talking specifically to folks who saw Kinky Boots in Chicago and are surprised by how well it is doing on Broadway, but who haven’t seen it here. Sorry if I was unclear.
Oh, sorry – I was just commenting on how small changes in direction that one hardly notices can make a big difference. But the book and score of Kinky Boots were also changed quite a lot from Chicago -- that's been noted on these boards and in the press. For example, the boxing match between Lola and Don was restaged, the fight between Charlie & Lola was re-written in Act II, and a couple of songs were changed.
I was just talking specifically to folks who saw Kinky Boots in Chicago and are surprised by how well it is doing on Broadway, but who haven’t seen it here. Sorry if I was unclear.
#74
Posted: 5/7/13 at 12:25pm
"Could this be a repeat of what happened with Avenue Q/Wicked? EVERYONE was thinking Wicked was the shoo-in, but, for whatever (political) reasons. the gold went to Avenue Q. I don't notice Wicked hurting at the box office but Avenue Q's Broadway run is a thing of the past. And I don't think Matilda will ever have the popular appeal of Wicked (note I say "popular")."
No because WICKED and AVENUE Q are actually good musicals...
No because WICKED and AVENUE Q are actually good musicals...
#75
Posted: 5/7/13 at 12:26pm
Where is everyone hearing the KINKY BOOTS cast recording? itunes don't even have samples up yet!
"Oh look at the time, three more intelligent plays just closed and THE ADDAMS FAMILY made another million dollars" -Jackie Hoffman, Broadway.com Audience Awards
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