Lea Michele as Fanny - Funny Girl — Page 60

Kad said: "And re: Lea Michele. Judaism is matrilineal. Unless she met her denomination’s requirement for being considered fully Jewish (which ranges from merely actively regularly practicing the religious customs to going through a lengthy conversion process), she is not considered Jewish, regardless of her father’s heritage."

And yet, she could also do a 21andMe DNA test that could list her ethnically Jewish.

jkcohen626 said: "However, my biggest issue and question regarding this actress is Rat-tat-tat-tat. This actress will be portraying an EXTREME stereotype in this show with that song. She will sing the line "and my bagels gave a spin, oy, oy" while putting on an extremely stereotypical accent and wearing a bagel belt. Is that really something you want to see? Would you really not feel at all uncomfortable?"

Yeah...this number, though written and performed by Jews, came off antisemitic...

QueenAlice said: "Kad said: "And re: Lea Michele. Judaism is matrilineal. Unless she met her denomination’s requirement for being considered fully Jewish (which ranges from merely actively regularly practicing the religious customs to going through a lengthy conversion process), she is not considered Jewish, regardless of her father’s heritage."

And yet, she could also do a 21andMe DNA test that could list her ethnically Jewish."

But she wouldn’t be considered Jewish by many Jewish denominations regardless. So what is it? You have to be a practicing Jew, which anybody can be, or you have to be ethnically of Jewish descent but could practice any religion? That opens the casting pool pretty widely. There are people who look to be of Jewish ethnic descent but may be generations removed from the culture and tradition entirely, if their families were ever part of it at all. Then there are people without a drop of inherited Jewish blood who have converted in the last decade. They can’t both be acceptable for Fanny Brice, and also how would casting people ascertain these things? There is no good standard here. This is an intersection of a lot of vexing issues.


And I think that’s what’s being lost in all the noise here. What, exactly, can be done to prevent this situation? There is no good solution. Casting gets more leeway than other hiring situations to literally discriminate, due to the nature of the arts and roles being created specifically for certain backgrounds. But they still need to adhere generally to non-discrimination practices- which is why this casting notice says “Jewish actresses encouraged to submit,” and not “only Jewish actresses can submit.”


Do we want producers or casting people to winnow the field of auditioners by asking if people are Jewish? Do they need to sign something binding swearing that what they say is true? Aside from being illegal, it is also extremely invasive and off putting and reminiscent of antisemitic laws and practices.


We also cannot stop actors for submitting for any role they like. But, unlike a white actor submitting for a role written for a black person, there isn’t a very obvious visual tell. I wouldn’t think twice if somebody told me McCrimmon was Jewish- she certainly resembles Fanny more than the conventionally beautiful Lea Michele.


So for all the outage I’m not seeing any solution that isn’t illegal or at least deeply problematic itself.

Why is no one coming for Mayer in all this? He first cast a woman who wasn't up for the role, then cast a controversial person (Lea), and now this.

Although Fanny Brice was real, a lot of this musical is entirely fictional. And yes, this line of arguing does create an opening for a question like, “should a black woman play Mama Rose?”

Kad said: "QueenAlice said: "Kad said: "And re: Lea Michele. Judaism is matrilineal. Unless she met her denomination’s requirement for being considered fully Jewish (which ranges from merely actively regularly practicing the religious customs to going through a lengthy conversion process), she is not considered Jewish, regardless of her father’s heritage."

And yet, she could also do a 21andMe DNA test that could list her ethnically Jewish."

But she wouldn’t be considered Jewish by many Jewish denominations regardless. So what is it? You have to be a practicing Jew, which anybody can be, or you have to be ethnically of Jewish descent but could practice any religion? That opens the casting pool pretty widely. There are people who look to be of Jewish ethnic descent but may be generations removed from the culture and tradition entirely, if their families were ever part of it at all. Then there are people without a drop of inherited Jewish blood who have converted in the last decade. They can’t both be acceptable for Fanny Brice, and also how would casting people ascertain these things? There is no good standard here. This is an intersection of a lot of vexing issues.


And I think that’s what’s being lost in all the noise here. What, exactly, can be done to prevent this situation? There is no good solution. Casting gets more leeway than other hiring situations to literally discriminate, due to the nature of the arts and roles being created specifically for certain backgrounds. But they still need to adhere generally to non-discrimination practices- which is why this casting notice says “Jewish actresses encouraged to submit,” and not “only Jewish actresses can submit.”


Do we want producers or casting people to winnow the field of auditioners by asking if people are Jewish? Do they need to sign something binding swearing that what they say is true? Aside from being illegal, it is also extremely invasive and off putting and reminiscent of antisemitic laws and practices.


We also cannot stop actors for submitting for any role they like. But, unlike a white actor submitting for a role written for a black person, there isn’t a very obvious visual tell. I wouldn’t think twice if somebody told me McCrimmon was Jewish- she certainly resembles Fanny more than the conventionally beautiful Lea Michele.


So for all the outage I’m not seeing any solution that isn’t illegal or at least deeply problematic itself.

"

Re lack of "a very obvious visual tell" being a primary factor, would you (or others who think Jewish representation as Fanny doesn't matter) think it's okay for a white person to be cast as a Black character in a show such as "An Octoroon"? Definitionally, the Black character in question would likely have very light or white skin, but the role they would be playing is clearly not a white role. But there would be no "obvious visual tell," as you've stated.

Penna2 said: "PipingHotPiccolo said: "This has to do with one role and one character, an actress specifically requested to be Jewish. Years ago Sondheim told the producers Fanny should be played by a Jew. Guess his opinion doesn't matter either. Fanny Brice was a real person. For me that's the major issue. Can we forget the any actor can play any role when we are dealing with the life of someone who actually walked the planet? I have no sympathy for Katrina, she stepped in this pile by bypassing the simple respect for the casting notice."

They are "encouraged" to apply, not the same as "requested" to be Jewish.

What exactly is the producers supposed to do? Ask the illegal question "are you Jewish" during audition?

PabloJuan said: "I found this article online. I have never heard of this magazine. The writing is very awkward. The article does not seem credible to me. Is anyone familiar with this magazine?


https://bonbebe.vn/katerina-mccrimmon-jewish-a-rising-star-illuminating-broadways-funny-girl-national-tour/"

That is 100% not a legitimate site.

Kad said: "forfivemoreminutes said: "Kad said: "QueenAlice said: "Kad said: "And re: Lea Michele. Judaism is matrilineal. Unless she met her denomination’s requirement for being considered fully Jewish (which ranges from merely actively regularly practicing the religious customs to going through a lengthy conversion process), she is not considered Jewish, regardless of her father’s heritage."

And yet, she could also do a 21andMe DNA test that could list her ethnically Jewish."

But she wouldn’t be considered Jewish by many Jewish denominations regardless. So what is it? You have to be a practicing Jew, which anybody can be, or you have to be ethnically of Jewish descent but could practice any religion? That opens the casting pool pretty widely. There are people who look to be of Jewish ethnic descent but may be generations removed from the culture and tradition entirely, if their families were ever part of it at all. Then there are people without a drop of inherited Jewish blood who have converted in the last decade. They can’t both be acceptable for Fanny Brice, and also how would casting people ascertain these things? There is no good standard here. This is an intersection of a lot of vexing issues.


And I think that’s what’s being lost in all the noise here. What, exactly, can be done to prevent this situation? There is no good solution. Casting gets more leeway than other hiring situations to literally discriminate, due to the nature of the arts and roles being created specifically for certain backgrounds. But they still need to adhere generally to non-discrimination practices- which is why this casting notice says “Jewish actresses encouraged to submit,” and not “only Jewish actresses can submit.”


Do we want producers or casting people to winnow the field of auditioners by asking if people are Jewish? Do they need to sign something binding swearing that what they say is true? Aside from being illegal, it is also extremely invasive and off putting and reminiscent of antisemitic laws and practices.


We also cannot stop actors for submitting for any role they like. But, unlike a white actor submitting for a role written for a black person, there isn’t a very obvious visual tell. I wouldn’t think twice if somebody told me McCrimmon was Jewish- she certainly resembles Fanny more than the conventionally beautiful Lea Michele.


So for all the outage I’m not seeing any solution that isn’t illegal or at least deeply problematic itself.

"

Re lack of "a very obvious visual tell" being a primary factor, would you (or others who think Jewish representation as Fanny doesn't matter) think it's okay for a white person to be cast as a Black character in a show such as "An Octoroon"? Definitionally, the Black character in question would likely have very light or white skin, but the role they would be playing is clearly not a white role. But there would be no "obvious visual tell," as you've stated."

I never said Jewish representation of Fanny doesn’t matter. I never indicated that. I indicated that this is a situation that has no clear solution.


You are just contributing further to the noise without actually answering my question: how can casting prevent that situation from happening without breaking the law or putting actors in the uncomfortable position of confirming their racial/ethnic identity?"

I don't work in the industry, so I'm genuinely not sure what safeguards are taken in casting light-skinned Black characters (for example) - I'd imagine one aspect is actors and their agents using their own judgment in not auditioning for roles that specify a Black or Indigenous character if they're not Black or Indigenous, but I don't know if there are other safeguards on the production team's side. How, for example, did Evita at A.R.T. manage to create a fully Latinx principal cast? How did Here Lies Love manage to create a fully Filipino cast? Certainly they couldn't have asked each performer if they were Filipino when they auditioned, but there would have been a big backlash to the production if white ensemble members were hired, for example, and they managed to not hire white actors. So...how did they do it? I don't know, but the Funny Girl production team probably should.

Kad said: "PabloJuan said: "I found this article online. I have never heard of this magazine. The writing is very awkward. The article does not seem credible to me. Is anyone familiar with this magazine?


https://bonbebe.vn/katerina-mccrimmon-jewish-a-rising-star-illuminating-broadways-funny-girl-national-tour/"

That is 100% not a legitimate site."

The article also reads like someone went to Chat GPT and entered prompt "write news article about Jewish Actress Katerina McCrimmon cast as Fanny Brice in Funny Girl National tour" and this is what it spit out. Its literally the same platitude about how its important it is for a Jewish performer to portray the role of Fanny Brice and Katerina as a Jewish performer has faced discrimination as a Jewish performer and this role allows her to connect to her roots several different ways, never actually quoting McCrimmon or anyone close to her or actually referencing her Jewish heritage. The irony being the fact that even the AI system that looks like created this article acknowledges how important it is to the Jewish community for the role of Fanny Brice to be played by a Jewish actress.

Updated On: 7/12/23 at 01:13 PM

RippedMan said: "But you kind of just proved your own point wrong? So only someone who is a stereotypical Jewish person should play Jewish people on stage since that's what audiences are going to expect? Huh? Naw."

I'm saying that how a person reads on stage to an audience is more important than who they actually are. Valerie Harper... not Jewish but read as Jewish and played both fictional (Rhoda Morgenstern) and non-fictional (Golda Meir) Jewish characters just fine.

Kad said: "It is so easy to get into the weeds with this. And again, legally, there is no way to prevent anything like this casting from occurring. Everybody has to act in good faith."

That's the key. I think it's up to each party to act in good faith, even if we may not all agree with the process or outcome.