Lea Michele as Fanny - Funny Girl - Page 62

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 3:38pm

What is truly upsetting is how someone I admired, looked towards for information on how to become an ally in certain regards, is essentially pushing this aside and saying it doesn't matter. So casting matters-but not when it comes to Jewish roles?? What is that crap? 

[alovingfan]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 3:47pm

Phillyguy said: "Identity politics have gotten so out of hand that people feel they are entitled to know the religion/ethnicity/race of every public figure. What's worse is that people always assume for the worst, and don't even give each out the benefit of the doubt.

They probably advertised that she is Cuban American because there are not a lot of Cuban Americans in musical theater. They were celebrating diversity and probably didn't think they need to state the obvious that she is Jewish."

Hmm.  I don't know about that.  They knew it would create chatter.  Maybe they wanted that.  At this point... I need to see her  batz-mitzvah pictures. 

[mshalo18]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 3:54pm

BrodyFosse123 said: "My bad - yes, she’s a full on practicing Cuban Jew. Just like the real Fanny Brice was born in Brooklyn making her an American Jew, Katerina is equal amount Jew as Fanny was. "

Not sure if I’m buying this. It’s been 24 hours, and the debate has been raging. While I agree that somebody’s religion is not the world’s business, the producers are letting hate be spewed at this young woman for no reason.

Word on the street is she asked a few industry members whether or not they thought it was ok for her to go in for the part and they said yes. So it doesn’t sound like she is Jewish to me. 

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 3:55pm

mshalo18 said: "BrodyFosse123 said: "My bad - yes, she’s a full on practicing Cuban Jew. Just like the real Fanny Brice was born in Brooklyn making her an American Jew, Katerina is equal amount Jew as Fanny was. "

Not sure if I’m buying this. It’s been 24 hours, and the debate has been raging. While I agree that somebody’s religion is not the world’s business, the producers are letting hate be spewed at this young woman for no reason.

Word on the street is she asked a few industry members whether or not they thought it was ok for her to go in for the part and they said yes. So it doesn’t sound like she is Jewish to me."

Fascinating! I wonder who would have encouraged this 

[Bette's Turban]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 3:58pm

This so called influencer is putting the blame on her.  Kat

[SeanD2]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 4:00pm

hearthemsing22 said: "Fascinating! I wonder who would have encouraged this"

I mean I've heard a lot of industry people over the years say to go in for everything even if you don't think you'll be right for it since it'll get you seen (and hopefully remembered). And from that point the creatives clearly thought she was the best person for the role, and it would have been illegal of them to deny it to her on the basis of religion or ethnicity.

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 4:13pm

SeanD2 said: "hearthemsing22 said: "Fascinating! I wonder who would have encouraged this"

I mean I've heard a lot of industry people over the years say to go in for everything even if you don't think you'll be right for it since it'll get you seen (and hopefully remembered). And from that point the creatives clearly thought she was the best person for the role, and it would have been illegal of them to deny it to her on the basis of religion or ethnicity."

I'm so confused-if they were planning on going against their casting notice why include "We strongly encourage people of Jewish heritage" or whatever the phrasing was in their casting notice? 

[Phillyguy]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 4:17pm

hearthemsing22 said: "SeanD2 said: "hearthemsing22 said: "Fascinating! I wonder who would have encouraged this"

I mean I've heard a lot of industry people over the years say to go in for everything even if you don't think you'll be right for it since it'll get you seen (and hopefully remembered). And from that point the creatives clearly thought she was the best person for the role, and it would have been illegal of them to deny it to her on the basis of religion or ethnicity."

I'm so confused-if they were planning on going against their casting notice why include "We strongly encourage people of Jewish heritage" or whatever the phrasing was in their casting notice?"

It’s sign posting. Anymore would be illegal discrimination. 

[Luminaire2]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 4:59pm

From the posting, and from the union:

 

“Equity’s contracts prohibit discrimination. Equity is committed to diversity and encourages all its employers to engage in a policy of equal employment opportunity designed to promote a positive model of inclusion. As such, Equity encourages performers of all ethnicities, gender identities, and ages, as well as performers with disabilities, to attend every audition.”

 

Sure we can discuss if she should have auditioned, if the creative team should have cast her at all … but the very union representing her says if you get an audition, you should attend. 
 

So what are the next steps? Change the rules? Just have unspoken rules everyone has to follow?

 

I fully understand the outrage, but I am also curious where we go from here? 

Updated On: 7/12/23 at 04:59 PM

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 5:03pm

Luminaire2 said: "From the posting, and from the union:



“Equity’s contracts prohibit discrimination. Equity is committed to diversity and encourages all its employers to engage in a policy of equal employment opportunity designed to promote a positive model of inclusion. As such, Equity encourages performers of all ethnicities, gender identities, and ages, as well as performers with disabilities, to attend every audition.”



Sure we can discuss if she should have auditioned, if the creative team should have cast her at all … but the very union representing her says if you get an audition, you should attend."

Key word you use *should. Doesn't mean "Have to" or "Must" or "Required". She wouldn't be blacklisted if she didn't. If she had turned it down. I think it was Samantha Massell who said in her stories that a ton of people had to say yes to this casting. And it seems they never thought to say no. They never thought about what backlash there could be. Why is it that Jewish casting is given such a brush aside? Such disrespect? 

[Bette's Turban]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 5:11pm

hearthemsing22 said: "Luminaire2 said: "From the posting, and from the union:



“Equity’s contracts prohibit discrimination. Equity is committed to diversity and encourages all its employers to engage in a policy of equal employment opportunity designed to promote a positive model of inclusion. As such, Equity encourages performers of all ethnicities, gender identities, and ages, as well as performers with disabilities, to attend every audition.”



Sure we can discuss if she should have auditioned, if the creative team should have cast her at all … but the very union representing her says if you get an audition, you should attend."

Key word you use *should. Doesn't mean "Have to" or "Must" or "Required". She wouldn't be blacklisted if she didn't. If she had turned it down. I think it was Samantha Massell who said in her stories that a ton of people had to say yes to this casting. And it seems they never thought to say no. They never thought about what backlash there could be. Why is it that Jewish casting is given such a brush aside? Such disrespect?"

Maybe they said yes because she was that good??    And Samantha who?

[SeanD2]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 5:17pm

hearthemsing22 said: "Key word you use *should. Doesn't mean "Have to" or "Must" or "Required". She wouldn't be blacklisted if she didn't. If she had turned it down. I think it was Samantha Massell who said in her stories that a ton of people had to say yes to this casting. And it seems they never thought to say no. They never thought about what backlash there could be. Why is it that Jewish casting is given such a brush aside? Such disrespect?"

If they said no because she wasn't Jewish then they'd be breaking the law. What part of that don't you understand?

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 5:30pm

People don’t get cast for all sorts of discriminatory reasons every day. That’s the major reason why actors are rarely given a straight answer about why they didn’t get a part. Too tall, too short, too fat, too thin, too young, too old, not the “right” ethnicity, etc. There is no thought police, so it’s only “illegal” if you say it out loud. They could have simply not cast her and given her agent no explanation other than “we went in a different direction.”

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 5:36pm

SeanD2 said: "hearthemsing22 said: "Key word you use *should. Doesn't mean "Have to" or "Must" or "Required". She wouldn't be blacklisted if she didn't. If she had turned it down. I think it was Samantha Massell who said in her stories that a ton of people had to say yes to this casting. And it seems they never thought to say no. They never thought about what backlash there could be. Why is it that Jewish casting is given such a brush aside? Such disrespect?"

If they said no because she wasn't Jewish then they'd be breaking the law. What part of that don't you understand?"

I comprehend what you're saying, thanks. They wouldn't have needed to say it out loud. They could have just said no. Does casting always give a reason? Do they have to verbally? I've auditioned for things maybe twice and they say no. They don't give a reason. They don't have to. They just say no and move on. They could have done that here. I fully understand

[Luminaire2]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 5:56pm

hearthemsing22 said: "Luminaire2 said: "From the posting, and from the union:



“Equity’s contracts prohibit discrimination. Equity is committed to diversity and encourages all its employers to engage in a policy of equal employment opportunity designed to promote a positive model of inclusion. As such, Equity encourages performers of all ethnicities, gender identities, and ages, as well as performers with disabilities, to attend every audition.”



Sure we can discuss if she should have auditioned, if the creative team should have cast her at all … but the very union representing her says if you get an audition, you should attend."

Key word you use *should. Doesn't mean "Have to" or "Must" or "Required". She wouldn't be blacklisted if she didn't. If she had turned it down. I think it was Samantha Massell who said in her stories that a ton of people had to say yes to this casting. And it seems they never thought to say no. They never thought about what backlash there could be. Why is it that Jewish casting is given such a brush aside? Such disrespect?"


I fully agree, and clearly the industry needs to find consensus with this, or it will keep happening.  
 

Consistency is also key: why did Ramin get a pass? Or did no one really question any of it until this new casting came up and this conversation started?  

Jewish roles, especially those portraying real people or stereotypes needs to be cast appropriately, especially with the rise in hate and antisemitism. 

[PabloJuan]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 5:56pm

From Twitter;

Jonathan Demar (Lang Entertainment)
”There have been a lot of great points made in the past 24 hours by my incredibly thoughtful fellow Jewish colleagues. I am in full agreement and stand with them in disappointment.
As a co-producer on Funny Girl, I have no sway over any casting decisions. I also have not yet made a commitment to join the tour. Right now, I’m looking to get clarity on how this decision was made. Out of respect to the Funny Girl company, I will not speak on this further”

 

Updated On: 7/12/23 at 05:56 PM

[kdogg36]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 5:56pm

CindersGolightly said: "if there is a character in a show who's Jewish but that identify has no bearing on the actual story being told, or their circumstances (Mark Cohen in Rent being a wonderful example), i don't really care if someone non-Jewish plays them. but if i'm seeing Fiddler, or Cabaret, or Funny Girl, or Parade, i want to see someone who understands the gravity of these situations they're in. i want to see someone who understands them first hand. i don't want to see a non-Jewish Leo Frank recite the Sh'ma before a senseless act of antisemitism is played out on stage that ends in his death. and i sure as hell don't wanna see a non-Jewish Fanny Brice spinning bagels around in a Yiddish accent. we should be able to tell our own stories."

Out of curiosity, what do you think about the casting of straight actor Andrew Garfield in the revival of Angels In America?

[Kad]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 5:56pm

hearthemsing22 said: "SeanD2 said: "hearthemsing22 said: "Key word you use *should. Doesn't mean "Have to" or "Must" or "Required". She wouldn't be blacklisted if she didn't. If she had turned it down. I think it was Samantha Massell who said in her stories that a ton of people had to say yes to this casting. And it seems they never thought to say no. They never thought about what backlash there could be. Why is it that Jewish casting is given such a brush aside? Such disrespect?"

If they said no because she wasn't Jewish then they'd be breaking the law. What part of that don't you understand?"

I comprehend what you're saying, thanks. They wouldn't have needed to say it out loud. They could have just said no. Does casting always give a reason? Do they have to verbally? I've auditioned for things maybe twice and they say no. They don't give a reason. They don't have to. They just say no and move on. They could have done that here. I fully understand"

The question is if they knew she was Jewish or not, a question they legally cannot ask. 

[Luminaire2]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 6:01pm

kdogg36 said: "CindersGolightly said: "if there is a character in a show who's Jewish but that identify has no bearing on the actual story being told, or their circumstances (Mark Cohen in Rent being a wonderful example), i don't really care if someone non-Jewish plays them. but if i'm seeing Fiddler, or Cabaret, or Funny Girl, or Parade, i want to see someone who understands the gravity of these situations they're in. i want to see someone who understands them first hand. i don't want to see a non-Jewish Leo Frank recite the Sh'ma before a senseless act of antisemitism is played out on stage that ends in his death. and i sure as hell don't wanna see a non-Jewish Fanny Brice spinning bagels around in a Yiddish accent. we should be able to tell our own stories."

Out of curiosity, what do you think about the casting of straight actor Andrew Garfield in the revival ofAngels In America?"


I can say for myself, as a gay man, it annoys me to no end. Gay men are passed over for straight roles, and the roles that perfectly align with our lived experiences and who we are, are cast with straight men. It happens all over TV, Film, and in the theatre. 
 

I really appreciated that Netflix’s Heartstopper ensured to cast from the community, and also had a crew filled with those also from the community.  

Updated On: 7/12/23 at 06:01 PM

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 6:18pm

Since you can't ask, how do shows that celebrate they have an entire cast of gay actors or Fillipino actors arrive at this information?  Are we then to only cast from the slate of actors who openly post about their ethnicity, heritage, sexual preferences, gender identity, etc?

If we can only go on visual representation at an audition, what happens if a white or latin actor is able to convincingly pass as black?

The only viable solution is true 'color blind' (and all that entails in terms of sexuality and gender) casting for every role in every show, which robs theatre of being able to tell unique stories about specific cultures.

Which brings up back to no real solution, except perhaps relying on the moral integrity of those auditioning and accepting being cast.

 

[akhoya87]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 6:25pm

Kad said: "The question is if they knew she was Jewish or not, a question they legally cannot ask."

Is this true? Doesn’t Title VII have a bona fide occupational exemption? I know ethnoreligious identity is tricky, especially in light of the EEOC’s view that race and ethnicity can never be a BFOQ. 

Not asking to be contrarian; I actually don’t know the answer.

[Kad]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 6:46pm

akhoya87 said: "Kad said: "The question is if they knew she was Jewish or not, a question they legally cannot ask."

Is this true? Doesn’t Title VII have a bona fide occupational exemption? I know ethnoreligious identity is tricky, especially in light of the EEOC’s view that race and ethnicity can never be a BFOQ.

Not asking to be contrarian; I actually don’t know the answer."

It’s a very tough line for a situation like this that I don’t know has been tested in court. And complicating the case would be the fact that performers who aren’t Jewish have played the role to acclaim, which would undermine the argument. 
 

It would be super risky to even ask and I doubt any production would chance it. 

[RippedMan]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 7:02pm

Ya'll are gonna get this poor girl fired from a huge, major, life changing role. Sucks.

[Kad]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 7:07pm

RippedMan said: "Ya'll are gonna get this poor girl fired from a huge, major, life changing role. Sucks."

Well, if she gets fired, she would likely be able to sue and have a strong case. 

[Penna2]

Posted: 7/12/23 at 7:34pm

Luminaire2 said: "hearthemsing22 said: "Luminaire2 said: "From the posting, and from the union:



“Equity’s contracts prohibit discrimination. Equity is committed to diversity and encourages all its employers to engage in a policy of equal employment opportunity designed to promote a positive model of inclusion. As such, Equity encourages performers of all ethnicities, gender identities, and ages, as well as performers with disabilities, to attend every audition.”



Sure we can discuss if she should have auditioned, if the creative team should have cast her at all … but the very union representing her says if you get an audition, you should attend."

Key word you use *should. Doesn't mean "Have to" or "Must" or "Required". She wouldn't be blacklisted if she didn't. If she had turned it down. I think it was Samantha Massell who said in her stories that a ton of people had to say yes to this casting. And it seems they never thought to say no. They never thought about what backlash there could be. Why is it that Jewish casting is given such a brush aside? Such disrespect?"


I fully agree, and clearly the industry needs to find consensus with this, or it will keep happening.


Consistency is also key: why did Ramin get a pass? Or did no one really question any of it until this new casting came up and this conversation started?

Jewish roles, especially those portraying real people or stereotypes needs to be cast appropriately, especially with the rise in hate and antisemitism."

Can we focus please? The issue is having a Jewish woman playing Fanny Brice. Not all this tangent stuff. When they were casting the original production Stephen Sondheim said Fanny should be played by a Jewish woman. They were considering Mary Martin and Carol Burnett among others. Burnett said she believed Fanny should be played by a Jewish woman. This makes sense knowing who Fanny Brice was in terms of both her life and career. To the person who brought up Mama Rose - Gypsy Rose Lee was not a Jewish icon. Most people had no idea she was a Jew, which proves the point of the issue at hand.

As for the supporting cast, who knows. I don't know if Sydney Chaplin the original Nicky or Johnny Desmond his replacement were Jewish - I suspect the former was and the latter not. Kay Medford, who played Rose was not. 

As for Ramin - Barbra Streisand kind of picked him (as she picked Omar Sharif...an Egyptian). 2 weeks after he did a concert with her, he was called to play the role. This was back in 2019. That production fell through, but when it came up again, I suspect he was at the top of the list and likely cast before Beanie. 
 

With the current Broadway production, we had Jane Lynch which was a big "what the heck were they thinking" for many, and Jared Grimes playing a character that was originally a red-headed Irishman - who didn't exist in real life. Ironically, the casting call for Emma suggested a Jewish woman apply, but Fanny's maid was actually a black woman and a black woman played Emma in the movie.

So, it would seem that casting for this show beyond the lead was fairly open to all actors of all races and ethnicities from the beginning. 

The point in the current casting for the tour goes back to the original decision of who should play this Jewish icon and the point many of us have been trying to make. Fanny Brice should be played by a Jew. I find it amazing that a call went out and people did not respect the request on the casting call. For those who did cast the young woman, who should have known better (JMO), shame on them. As for the young woman...ditto. Hell of a way try to move your career forward.