NBC's SMASH - Series & Broadway Adaptation Thread- Page 84
NBC's SMASH - Series & Broadway Adaptation Thread
#2075Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 1:23pmI'm a little puzzled by the repeated references to the silliness of the lyrics about not forgetting Marilyn. Yes, she's unforgettable, but isn't the point that MARILYN was singing those words and she was the one uncertain of how she would be remembered. This seems so obvious -- or am I missing the point of what others are saying about it?
#2076Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 1:39pm
"I feel like, by the time she gave it to Karen, she was so low and depressed, she knew she'd lost, and she had given up. I didn't see that as sabotage, since there was no sign on her face, even after she'd turned away. I think in that moment, she was actually trying to do the right thing. Maybe it was bad timing, but that's all. Maybe I'm just looking for reasons to continue rooting for her, but that's how it played to me."
I'm sorry, but looking for reasons to continue rooting for her is exactly what you're doing. You are honestly trying to suggest that she chose to give Karen the ring during the most stressful moment of her life as she storms into the dressing room defeated purely by coincidence? It was 150% an attempt at sabotage, and I for one was thrilled to see it blow up in her face. I guess you missed her looking overjoyed as she crawled her way into the Marilyn costume before having to eat a big slice of humble pie when Derek and Karen told her to get off the stage in no uncertain terms.
If she was so content on "doing the right thing," why didn't she apologize or take any culpability for what she did? She knew it was Karen's fiance and slept with him anyway. The leeway people on this board give the character of Ivy simply because she's played by a Broadway talent they like is ridiculous. She can literally do no wrong, whereas Karen hasn't done one mean thing to anyone the whole season and gets slammed for it.
I also find it funny when people say that, in the real world, Ivy would have gotten the part without any contest at all. In the real world, Ivy would have been fired from the workshop the second she started her diva antics in rehearsal, and she certainly never would have worked again following her drug-induced shenanigans at HEAVEN ON EARTH, let alone on another project for the same team. Maybe the character will spend next season learning how to get her life together instead of psychotically chasing a train (and a role) that's already left the station. There's a reason she's said to have been in the ensemble for ten years without breaking out, and I'm staring to think that reason is severe mental illness.
Tonya Pinkins: Then we had a "Lot's Wife" last June that was my personal favorite. I'm still trying to get them to let me sing it at some performance where we get to sing an excerpt that's gone.
Tony Kushner: You can sing it at my funeral.
Updated On: 5/15/12 at 01:39 PM
Tony Kushner: You can sing it at my funeral.
Gothampc
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#2077Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 1:44pm
"Maybe the melody was finished in time for the orchestra to learn it. In less than 4 hours..."
But I thought it wasn't because Deb and Christian had that conversation about "gospel/no gospel". The through line in this show is a bit difficult to follow regarding the timing of certain scenes.
If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
Gothampc
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#2078Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 1:46pm
"What was the point of the return of Nick Jonas?"
They made him sign a two episode contract.
I have a feeling if the final show didn't go the way they wanted, they were going to hype Nick Jonas in all the advertisements to try and draw an audience. Same with Bernadette. She had no purpose in that episode. Nobody shows up for a second preview in Boston.
If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
Borstalboy
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/9/04
#2079Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 1:47pm
Take it easy, Somethingwicked, its only a tee-vee show.
I think we can all agree, with SMASH and the surprisingly likeable THE VOICE on hiatus, our Monday evenings are a little more drab. Can't stand AGT...what an ugly, interminable show.
"Impossible is just a big word thrown around by small men who find it easier to live in the world they've been given than to explore the power they have to change it. Impossible is not a fact. It's an opinion. Impossible is not a declaration. It's a dare. Impossible is potential. Impossible is temporary. Impossible is nothing.”
~ Muhammad Ali
#2080Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 1:56pmGeez, somethingwicked, getting your panties in a tizzy over someone's opinions (especially when they don't gel with your own).
#2081Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 2:03pm
Re: returning the ring.
When someone says "I wasn't going to tell you but. . . " you know she is delighted in telling her, just like she knew she would.
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/31/69
#2082Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 2:05pm
Oy.
The final song presents Marylin's point of view presumably at her death. She's hoping she will be remembered- and, gosh it all- she sure is! It's not like she died knowing that in 50 years she'll be more popular than she was. She died alone and (in this tale at least) pretty needy.
#2083Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 2:06pm
Sorry my opinion was so offensive to you.
I like Ivy because she is one of the more complicated, interesting, well-written characters on the show, and nothing I've seen on the show has convinced me that she isn't a million times better in the part of Marilyn than Karen. She is self-destructive and makes bad decisions, I'm not denying that, but she's not evil. I feel sorry for her. And yes, while I was watching that scene and paying attention to her face and tone, my first impression was that she was being genuine.
Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters. ~ Wicked
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
"He's a tramp, but I love him."
Updated On: 5/15/12 at 02:06 PM
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
#2084Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 2:09pmContext clues, people! The ring bit was clearly her last ditch attempt to undermine Karen and win the part.
Jon
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/20/04
#2085Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 2:15pmJust remember, the folks in charge of this TV show believe that the actor playing Ellis can pass as straight.
#2086Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 2:39pm
I'm sorry, but looking for reasons to continue rooting for her is exactly what you're doing. You are honestly trying to suggest that she chose to give Karen the ring during the most stressful moment of her life as she storms into the dressing room defeated purely by coincidence? It was 150% an attempt at sabotage, and I for one was thrilled to see it blow up in her face.
I actually disagree with you. I very much read it as she had given up. She was coming clean, trying to do the right thing. She didn't show any signs of scheming after giving Karen the ring. I actually felt worse for Ivy than I did for Karen. You finally think Ivy is going to get her well-deserved shot at the role, and she is genuinely excited. But Karen comes back and just glares at Ivy like everything is her fault rather than her stupid boyfriend's fault. Ivy's heart basically got broken repeatedly throughout that episode.
#2087Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 2:44pm
I don't think there's any way to think what she did with the ring was the 'right thing to do.' How? She decided to blow up Karen's life right at the time Karen did not need her life blown up. If she really wanted to come clean she would have WAITED UNTIL AFTER THE SHOW.
Or better yet...she could have just given the ring back to Dev and kept her mouth shut. I do not see anything selfless or even slightly empathetic about the whole ring moment.
#2088Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 2:45pm
I actually disagree with you. I very much read it as she had given up. She was coming clean, trying to do the right thing.
If that were the case, then she should have given it to Dev. Ivy would have known that returning it directly to Karen the way she did would cause problems for Karen rather than solving them.
Actually, while I was watching the show, it never even occurred to me that Ivy's motives might be pure. If she thought she was doing a good thing, she was really deluding herself!
#2089Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 2:52pm"Doing the right thing" doesn't necessarily mean not making waves. It's been made very clear over the last couple episodes that Ivy thought it was wrong of Dev, and kind of despicable, to propose even after he cheated, so I think that in her mind, it was more selfless to tell Karen what happened and allow her to make an informed decision than to shut up and let her stay engaged to her cheating fiancé. And she probably thought Karen would only believe her if she had the ring in her possession to prove it. Her motives are not perfectly clear to anyone, probably not even to herself, which is one reason I love the character.
Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters. ~ Wicked
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
"He's a tramp, but I love him."
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
#2090Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 2:59pmI see your point. But at least she could have waited until after opening night. :)
#2091Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 3:07pm
Which particular definition of 'doing the right thing' would Ivy's actions fall under.
I really am surprised that people don't see it as a sabotage moment. I thought it was utterly clear.
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#2092Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 3:09pm
I was really hoping Ivy was going to pick up the brush and start brushing her hair after Karen left with the ring.
I thought it was a great episode.
#2093Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 3:10pmOr bobbi pinning it up in preparation for the wig!
#2094Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 3:15pmSonofRobbieJ, I certainly saw it as an act of sabotage. Just the final push it would take to put Karen over the edge, but the complete meltdown Ivy wanted to see didn't happen.
Hey Dottie!
Did your colleagues enjoy the cake even though your cat decided to sit on it? ~GuyfromGermany
#2095Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 3:25pmGod, I was praying that curtain would rise and we'd see Bernadette in a blonde wig.
Gothampc
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/20/03
#2096Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 3:37pm
The burning question for me from last night's episode is:
Why does Ivy spend so much time alone in the dressing room? Are the other chorus girls in the alley smoking?
Remember all those long stretches of time during Heaven on Earth where she didn't have any chorus work to perform and could lay on the floor in her angel costume? And now in Bombshell it's the same thing. Long stretches of time alone in the dressing room.
If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
#2097Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 3:43pmWhile I'm not sure I'd buy Smash on DVD unless I found it cheap, I'd love to see a special feature that takes all of the full filmed, staged Bombshell performances (apparently even when they did those cuts between rehearsal and performances the full stage performance would be filmed), in the order they supposedly would play in the actual musical. I still think it would probably be a mess, but...
random person 112
Broadway Star Joined: 6/26/11
#2098Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 4:00pm^ I agree, it wasn't sabtoage i think Dev even knew he lost when he was with Ivy. Notice that he asks her about it. She also dosen't entirely hate Karen, she was nice to her for the more recent episodes. So i think it really was her letting her know, so that she didn't find out thirty years down the road after two kids, and having lost her career that Dev was a cheater. In fact, she proably wished someone had been that honest with her when she was with Dev.
Wynbish
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/27/12
#2099Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 4:08pm
^ Which is fine and perfectly understandable, if you disregard the fact that it happened in the middle of Karen stressfully rehearsing for her big, first performance. Telling her after the performance would not have changed the fact that Dev cheated on her and Ivy is being a good friend.
Updated On: 5/15/12 at 04:08 PM
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