NBC's SMASH - Series & Broadway Adaptation Thread- Page 85
NBC's SMASH - Series & Broadway Adaptation Thread
#2100Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 4:22pm^ Which is what makes it ambiguous and unclear. If she had told her after the performance, no one here would be arguing that it was sabotage. If she had smirked and started doing her hair and makeup or something after telling her, no one would be arguing that it WASN'T sabotage.
Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters. ~ Wicked
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
"He's a tramp, but I love him."
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
#2101Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 4:26pm
People arguing it wasn't sabotage are not using their CONTEXT CLUES!!!
At the very best, it was simply the SH*Ttiest thing to do to someone. Basically ever. There was no element of 'being a good friend' to that kind of act. None.
#2102Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 4:27pmIvy is a heinous disgusting character with absolutely no redeeming qualities. She deserves to get hit by a hot dog cart.
Wynbish
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/27/12
#2103Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 4:27pmAnd couldn't she have just told Karen Dev slept with her? And if Karen did not believe it, then produce the ring? The ring was like an extra slap.
#2104Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 4:31pm
Context clues like the fact that Ivy has not been actually mean towards Karen in weeks? Or like the fact that Derek had just told her that he didn't see her as Marilyn? Or like the fact that Ivy made it clear to Dev that she thought he was pretty disgusting for proposing anyway? Or like the fact that Ivy's boyfriend cheated on her, so she knows how it feels? Or like the fact that she DIDN'T go back to smiling and fixing her hair like you said you wanted to see?
There are plenty of context clues either way. Don't pretend like your interpretation is the only right one.
Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters. ~ Wicked
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
"He's a tramp, but I love him."
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
#2105Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 4:33pmPosters defending Ivy's actions as "kind" or "doing the right thing" reminds me why there are so many real bitches in the world. People give even the most horrific actions a pass sometimes. I'm sitting her dumbfounded at how anyone can think telling a woman about to go on in her first starring role on Broadway that her finance cheated on her is an act of kindness. Really???
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#2107Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 4:35pm
"It's like they thought, Wait a second, there's nothing cliffhangeresque to tide them over. Hilty, you grab those pills!"
I actually suspect they did. While it was renewed early on, it was a what, 15 second scene that easily could have not been there if the show was ending with this episode--which would have left some loose ends but no real cliffhanger.
#2108Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 4:39pm
'Or like the fact that she DIDN'T go back to smiling and fixing her hair like you said you wanted to see?'
Did you really need a winkie emoticon to know that my bobbie pins line was a joke?
Honestly...in what world is what Ivy did ok or justified? We can argue if it was intentional sabotage, I guess. I guess we can believe that the daughter of a Tony-winning star who herself has opened shows on Broadway wouldn't be able to guess how Karen would react to staging the engagement ring on her make-up station and then telling her she F*CKed her boyfriend. I guess we can believe Ivy caught retard from Cousin Debbie's son. But probably not.
And Ivy hadn't been mean to Karen in weeks? She F*CKed her boyfriend/would-be fiance.
#2109Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 4:46pm
I guess that's what I'm arguing, that it wasn't (or may not have been) intentional sabotage. What she did, or at list when and how she did it, is not okay, and at best is just really bad timing and cluelessness. We've already seen that she can be pretty selfish, so it's possible she was just thinking about herself, about clearing her own conscience, than about how it would affect Karen. She also might have thought that she wouldn't have a chance to tell Karen after because it would be hard to get some quiet alone time with the star after her triumphant first performance -- and if she had bombed, it's even worse timing. Maybe she was concerned she'd lose her nerve if she didn't tell her at that moment. Maybe she had already been planning to take the pills after the show and knew she might not have another chance to tell Karen. Who knows? Again, I'm not saying it's justified. I'm just trying to explain what I think might have been going through her head, and why I think it's possible that she believed she was doing the right thing.
Aside from sleeping with Dev, which she did while extremely drunk and at a very low point, she had actually been friendly towards Karen lately. I know, that's a big "aside," but still. Lots of people do stupid things when they're depressed and drunk. She very obviously felt horrible about it after.
Again, not justifying. Just explaining why I think my interpretation of the scene is possible.
Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters. ~ Wicked
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
"He's a tramp, but I love him."
Updated On: 5/15/12 at 04:46 PM
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent
#2110Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 4:55pmWell...ok. But even in you're scenario, she still gets second place in the SH*Ttiest Person Alive contest right after Dick Cheney and just before Jamie Dimon.
#2111Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 4:58pmThat new final number for Bombshell was such pandering. If they really wanted to establish that the audience didn't immediately break into applause because they hated the ending, they really needed to show some confused expressions or something. Because there are plenty of shows that end with a weighty ending that the audience needs a moment or two before beginning their applause. Or they just aren't sure if it's over yet. It's not an automatic kiss of death like the show made it out to be, and it's not like it was a huge enormous amount of silence, either.
#2112Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 5:02pm
I think its actually quite interesting that in both preview 'performances' the reaction shots of the audience was somewhat vague. They weren't overtly 'panning' Rebecca or overtly going crazy for Karen's take on the role. The writers (of the series) seem to be wise in knowing that if they are going to try to keep this thing going another season they have to leave a lot of room for indecision and future conflict.
I thought last night's finale was fun and satisfying. If that had been the end of the entire series, it would have felt complete.
Megan Hilty was especially terrific.
bryan2
Broadway Star Joined: 12/19/06
#2113Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 5:08pm
I am having a hard time with anyone who is dumb enough to not think Ivy told her on purpose to rattle her...come on we love Megan but the chaaracter is a selish bitch who wants to be a star at all cost.....stop making it seem like Meg Hilty did this
IVY THE CHARACTER WHO IS NASTY BUT TALENTED DID THIS..
I also like the theory that they show that talent isnt enough
sometimes it takes soul
#2114Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 5:57pm
The best way they can redeem the character of Ivy is to show her really recognizing how awful she's become and making a conscious effort to get her life back on track. As unprofessional and intolerable as she's been, the thing that's the most frustrating about her is that she's never taken any accountability for anything. Her mother may be cruel, her boyfriend may be a jerk, and it may stink that her talent alone isn't enough to make her a marketable star, but that doesn't erase all of the crazy things she did herself. It's not as if she's this victim of horrible circumstances. She's been the horrible circumstance.
Christian Borle hinted in a recent interview that next season will show the characters branching out to things beyond BOMBSHELL, and I think that presents a terrific opportunity to let Ivy really move on and stop obsessing over a part that's never going to be hers. That still allows them to pursue plenty of storylines that can occur with Karen still planted firmly in the starring role of Marilyn (like her having to deal with the pressure of stardom and balancing her professional and personal life, etc) while letting Ivy come into her own in a new and separate way. Megan Hilty is so talented that we as an audience want to see her succeed, but I think people are blurring the line between her and her character way too profoundly.
As far as the engagement ring scene goes, to each their own, but I still can't fathom how they could have made it any more clear that Ivy was consciously trying to rattle Karen, short of having her cackle and twirl an imaginary mustache. If you really think a character who's resorted to borderline sociopathic behavior to keep a role is going to drop a life shattering revelation on her competition at the eleventh hour with no malicious agenda, you've been watching a completely separate show for the last few months.
Tonya Pinkins: Then we had a "Lot's Wife" last June that was my personal favorite. I'm still trying to get them to let me sing it at some performance where we get to sing an excerpt that's gone.
Tony Kushner: You can sing it at my funeral.
Updated On: 5/15/12 at 05:57 PM
Tony Kushner: You can sing it at my funeral.
#2115Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 6:40pmIt's odd--I'm not sure I can think of a network tv show in a long time that has so polarized not just viewers but critics too, perhaps Glee back when people paid more attention to it. What's interesting is amongst many of these people, they seem unable to stop watching as the New Yorker critic said in her hate-watch critique where she says the experience is similar to how she watches Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip actually (though I don't remember critics being as divided on disliking that--though I admit I enjoyed moments of it as well). http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/04/hate-watching-smash.html Also reading the reviews that go from critics who think the show marked a big improvement in the last few episodes, to it reaching rock bottom, etc...
#2116Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 6:54pm
"It was Boston, not Broadway."
Yes, of course it was -- please forgive my momentary lapse. But honestly, is that comment meant to mean anything? Like it's fine to do it before starring in a leading role in Boston but not on Broadway? Huh?
Wynbish
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/27/12
#2118Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 7:21pm
NBC: "Smash" season finale (6.1 million, 4.0/6)
It was in third place for the time slot, behind Hawaii 5-0 and The Bachelorette.
Monday Night Ratings
#2120Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 7:53pmNot that I've been keeping up with the show, but shouldn't they be concerned about someone so green being able to actually perform 8 shows a week? Or do they not do that in the alternate universe Smash is in?
When I see the phrase "the ____ estate", I imagine a vast mansion in the country full of monocled men and high-collared women receiving letters about productions across the country and doing spit-takes at whatever they contain.
-Kad
#2121Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 8:16pmShe can handle it. She may be green, but she's trained! :)
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#2122Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 8:30pmNo mention was made of Karen opening on Broadway. They were only concerned with that performance.
Wynbish
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/27/12
#2123Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 8:33pm
"That was an improvement correct?"
A small one. Still lower than most of the season, save for the previous two or three episodes.
#2124Smash -- Series Discussion
Posted: 5/15/12 at 8:57pm
4.0 is an ideal number for Smash/NBC
Anything consistently about a 3.0 is good for a new series.
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