RENT is confirmed to be selectively homophobic- Page 3

[WickedRentLuv]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 4:25am

But why the hell would you need to!?! We understand perfectly well that they're in love; their love doesn't magically disappear when Angel is out of drag.

[WhatDoINeedWithLove?]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 4:26am

The only kiss is when Angel is in drag in the stage show too! They are only dressed in mens clothing together when they first meet and at life support. They didn't kiss in their first scene together and they didn't make out when Angel is dying...pretty understandable!
Seriously! SHUT UP!

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 4:29am

art2, why do YOU keep discriminating against drag queens?

[WickedRentLuv]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 4:30am

Well, art's argument here is that he thinks Chris Columbus should have used artistic license to include a kiss out of drag somewhere. My viewpoint is that such a kiss is not needed to portray the love between the two men.

EDIT: This was in response to the post before yours, skittles...you posted too fast :-p Updated On: 11/19/05 at 04:30 AM

[art2]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 4:31am

Your position is inconsistent. You say that it's OK for Columbus to add a gay female marriage theme to "flesh out" the characters but, for some magical reason, such fleshing out is unnecessary or undesirable for the two men Angel and Collins. I once said that it was as if Sony had made a directive to Chris that any directorial license must not extend to showing Angel and Collins in an obviously male/male kissing scenario, and I hold to it.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 4:31am

Why do you feel that a drag queen isn't good enough to be considered a gay man?

Updated On: 11/19/05 at 04:31 AM

[WickedRentLuv]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 4:32am

Wow, okay lots of post editing...can't keep up @__@
Updated On: 11/19/05 at 04:32 AM

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 4:34am

It's okay, I caught that and rephrased.

[WickedRentLuv]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 4:36am

Art, I wasn't the person who mentioned the "fleshing out" of the woman/woman relationship...get your people straight before accusing me of flipflopping.
Updated On: 11/19/05 at 04:36 AM

[meagan9848]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 5:14am

Art,

Have you even heard the music?

[Word]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 5:37am

Dear Mr. Art2,

GIRLS

Joanne is a well educated, articulate, well-mannered individual who does not have time for games.

Maureen is a highly sexual, free-spirited, open-minded, flaming liberal, sensual, extroverted flirt who rides a motorcycle and wears leather.

Oops! Well, whudya know? A conflict.

Not just ANY conflict, but one centering around SEX.

Maureen is too HOT to handle.

BOYS

Angel is a young man living with AIDS. He is a sweetheart; sincere, genuine, caring, faithful. He also happens to wear women's clothing, every now and then, because it makes him feel complete and therefore; happy. His crossdressing has nothing to do with SEX.

Collins is also a young man living with AIDS. He's an intellectual, an activist, and also a well educated, articulate individual.

They're also truly in love with each other. Knowing that both their days are numbered, they embark on a beautiful journey of love. There is no conflict here and their interest in each other is far deeper than mere lust.

They serve as a grand source of inspiration for the other constantly fueding couples, which includes the heterosexual Roger and Mimi, whom are also living with AIDS.

There is an enormous difference between these couples. Lots of sexuality is involved with Joanne and Maureen, because that's the issue they're dealing with, that is threatening their relationship.

If you're going to get this caught-up in the fact Angel wears women's clothing, then let's just dissect this poor puppy and come-up with as many issues similar to your thoughts about male-male touchy-feeliness reduced in favor of wild Lesbo sexuality by horny heterosexual directors, shall we?

WHITES

"Hey! That's not fair! The caucasian characters in RENT are either nasty Lesbos, or unemployed geeks who are also wussies. And I HATE the way they portray the parents! All nerdy, obnoxious, and naggy."

HISPANICS

"We are sick and tired of being portrayed as sexy mamas with rhythm, horny drug addicts trying to corrupt proper rehabilitated White boys, queeny drag queens, or mamacitas who leave messages on answering machines in Spanish, sung to a tune reminiscent of the stereotypical song "La Cucaracha"! And it's NOT "Spanish babies" it's "Hispanic babies"! Spanish refers to "people of Spain" or the language! Half-wits!"

BLACKS

"ALL the African American characters in RENT are trying to be White. They were probably purposely written that way, cause the real Black community made the writer uncomfortable. Damn sugar-coating!"

GAY MEN

"Contrary to popular belief, not ALL of us have HIV or AIDS! Also, why is it always the poor fag who gets killed-off, while the heteros have near-death experiences? Pathetic!"

LESBIANS

"There's no such thing as bi-sexuality! It's all a ploy to make an otherwise manly dyke, into a sexy siren for all the straight male pervs to whack-off at! Ugh."

And then, there's Mr. Art2...

Sad thing is, the above arguments/protests are not only highly unlikely to occur, but they make a hell of a lot more sense than yours ever will.

Get a hobby.

Sincerely,

Word

[meagan9848]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 5:44am

Amen.

[MUNKY]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 5:55am

Who the freak is Tray Butler anyway? Washington Blade? Oooo... You know, everyone is a critic, professional or not. And what does Tray Butler know about gay male relationships on how they should act or dress. I don't even care if the character Angel wears a dress or in some universe, Collins wears a bat costume. Yup, last time I checked they are both male gender characters. There is cleary no avoidance of the gay male affection in this material. I can still see a man and another man in love with each other. It is not neccessary to see the two male characters expressing themselves sexually, because their emotions and actions are enough for me to understand their love.
Your threads are ridiculous, not to mention that they shown a complete lack of thought and common sense. You seem to have lost the ability to rhyme and reason. And our position is inconsistent? My arse! First it's homophobic, then it's de-gayed, then we went through the anti-gay shredder, and now it's "selectively" homophobic...HA! Thanks for the million laughs, now please go back to the circus you came from and take the bearded lady with you...oh wait, that wouldn't work because you'll probably have issues with the beard masking her femininity.

Updated On: 11/19/05 at 05:55 AM

[Madame X2]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 6:26am

"You say that it's OK for Columbus to add a gay female marriage theme to "flesh out" the characters but, for some magical reason, such fleshing out is unnecessary or undesirable for the two men Angel and Collins."

IMO, the parts of Collins and Angel don't need to be fleshed out. They are more developed roles than Maureen and Joanne.

Really, who are YOU to judge, art? You haven't seen the stage show, you haven't seen the movie, so where exactly are you getting your knowledge of the piece? How do YOU know how the relationship between Collins and Angel is supposed to be portrayed?
Just because you and that critic you found (who the hell is he ANYWAY?) can't understand that the two men have for each other, because they aren't all over each other all the time, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Angel and Collins are in love, which is displayed in the film AND the stage show, which is all you should be concerened about. RENT is NOT a marketing tool for homosexuality and if you think it is then you are sadly mistaken.

[DramaDork925]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 9:45am

Art, what do you want? A gay sex scene? Honestly, have you even seen the movie yet? I'm not suprised they downplayed Angel and Collins' relationship in the previews and trailers, because they want to sell tickets and there are people who would not see this movie just because of the homosexual element. I think once people see it and realize that Angel and Collins truely love eachother and it's a beautiful thing then they'll reconsider their negative views on homosexuality...

[Craig]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:37am

Contrary to what that reviewer said, I found the relationship between Angel and Collins to be very real and honest - and there was definitely chemistry between the two.

[Pinguin]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:40am

See the movie.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:42am

They had the best chemistry in the whole movie, IMO.

*sits back and eats popcorn* This is superbly entertaining, I must say.

[caitiesus1522]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:59am

"GIRLS

Joanne is a well educated, articulate, well-mannered individual who does not have time for games.

Maureen is a highly sexual, free-spirited, open-minded, flaming liberal, sensual, extroverted flirt who rides a motorcycle and wears leather.

Oops! Well, whudya know? A conflict.

Not just ANY conflict, but one centering around SEX.

Maureen is too HOT to handle.

BOYS

Angel is a young man living with AIDS. He is a sweetheart; sincere, genuine, caring, faithful. He also happens to wear women's clothing, every now and then, because it makes him feel complete and therefore; happy. His crossdressing has nothing to do with SEX.

Collins is also a young man living with AIDS. He's an intellectual, an activist, and also a well educated, articulate individual.

They're also truly in love with each other. Knowing that both their days are numbered, they embark on a beautiful journey of love. There is no conflict here and their interest in each other is far deeper than mere lust.

They serve as a grand source of inspiration for the other constantly fueding couples, which includes the heterosexual Roger and Mimi, whom are also living with AIDS.

There is an enormous difference between these couples. Lots of sexuality is involved with Joanne and Maureen, because that's the issue they're dealing with, that is threatening their relationship.

If you're going to get this caught-up in the fact Angel wears women's clothing, then let's just dissect this poor puppy and come-up with as many issues similar to your thoughts about male-male touchy-feeliness reduced in favor of wild Lesbo sexuality by horny heterosexual directors, shall we?

AMEN TO THAT!

If yo usee the movie it is OBVIOUS that the relationship between Angel and Collins is the most loving and stable, they don't need to sex it up. And there may be ONE PERSON who agrees with you, but only one. And I'm almost positive that that person was in the theater with me when I saww it and I cab guarentee you that tthey were the only one that held that opinion. I have read the Washington Blade many times because it is facsinating but many times they turn everything into being antihomosexual...not a very objective source.

I have talked to many people, gay and straight (even though that doesn't matter), who have actually SEEN the movie and they all think that Angel and Collins relationahip is perfect. The point of their relationship isnt look at us we are gay men, the point of their relationship is we are truly in love with each other and don't need to show everyone in physical ways.

[EverythingIsRENT]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 11:01am

Guys, why bother arguing? Sony has OBVIOUSLY left the #2 pencil of male homosexuality unsharpened!!

[Craig]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 11:12am

This is spoken about by both Jesse and Wilson in this feature

https://www.broadwayworld.com/viewcolumn.cfm?colid=5961

[WickedRentLuv]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 11:17am

A 30 MINUTE VIDEO PRESENTATION!?! *SQUEEE!!*

*goes to watch*

[Greekmusicalfan]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 11:22am

Honestly WHY, OH WHY do you stll bother to respond to art2 ??? The guy is obsessed against Columbus, isn't that clear ? I highly doubt that he posts in other movie forums, about many many movies that DO underplay or extinguish the gay elements which were present in the original material ! Anything we say stops before it reaches his closed obsessed ears ! I would discuss it with him but he ONLY posts here about this subject !!! The guy has serious issues ! Ok art2 we get it, you are absolutely right, the movie is homophobic, but you know what ? WE DON'T GIVE A S**T cause we love it anyway, how about that ! Honestly, your delusional whining, is sooo pathetic and tiring. Why don't you use all that activistic passion for a REAL cause ?
Now go and bug someone else or start a picket line outside theaters, since you feel "vindicated" !!!
Updated On: 11/19/05 at 11:22 AM

[loudasthehelliwant]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 11:26am

Clearly, anything that isn't gay porn is homophobic to art 2.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 11/19/05 at 11:43am

Art2, I am starting to get the feeling that you went to one of those gradeless schools where everyone wins. In order to win an argument, you must convince the MAJORITY of interested parties of your opinion. So you found ONE person who shares your opinion. So what? That means there are two people out there with a goofy opinion.

You, however, keep changing the deciding factors of the opinion. You can not say that this is not a replica of the stage musical when your entire argument has been that Chris Columbus has been "straightening up" the movie version.

Art2: "In the stage production of RENT there are several occasions when the two men Angel and Collins kiss each other. On one or two of these occasions, Angel is in drag so it looks as if a man is kissing a woman. However, there is one occasion where Angel isn't in drag and it is quite obvious there are two men kissing. I'm interested to know if Chris Columbus has remained true to the production or whether he's buckled under and erased this latter one. Anyone know?"

But wait... I thought you have never seen the play? And am I just remembering the production wrong? I don't remember Angel and Collins kissing out of drag.

Anyway, if it makes you feel better to call yourself "vindicated," go for it. Call yourself the Grand HooHahpapadopalis Master Extraordinaire of Gay Vindication. Mommy has your blue ribbon and certificate of achievement.

Updated On: 11/19/05 at 11:43 AM