Reasons People Don't Like Musicals- Page 2

[MysteriousLady]

Posted: 12/26/23 at 7:20pm

I think Hogan has given the best answer. In the mid-60s popular music and Broadway music diverged. Most people have very narrow taste in music. 

Another reason: around that same time you saw the rise of the singer/songwriter. To this day the expectation that a singer should be singing their own songs has only gotten stronger in the popular culture. How many times have you heard someone criticized ("she doesn't even write her own songs etc."). Our culture developed ideas about "authenticity" and a disdain for what is seen as "fake." 

Seen through this prism, is it any wonder that our culture grew to dislike actors pretending to be someone else, singing music written by someone else? Obviously those of us on this board don't have a problem with it. Meryl Streep doesn't write her dialogue, so why should Sutton Foster write her own songs? 

But to modern audiences, this perceived lack of "authenticity" reads as "cringe" and is a big turn off.

[Penna2]

Posted: 12/26/23 at 7:54pm

MysteriousLady said: "I think Hogan has given the best answer. In the mid-60s popular music and Broadway music diverged. Most people have very narrow taste in music.

Another reason: around that same time you saw the rise of the singer/songwriter. To this day the expectation that a singer should be singing their own songs has only gotten stronger in the popular culture. How many times have you heard someone criticized ("she doesn't even write her own songs etc."). Our culture developed ideas about "authenticity" and a disdain for what is seen as "fake."

Seen through this prism, is it any wonder that our culture grew to dislike actors pretending to be someone else, singing music written by someone else? Obviously those of us on this board don't have a problem with it. Meryl Streep doesn't write her dialogue, so why should Sutton Foster write her own songs?

But to modern audiences, this perceived lack of "authenticity" reads as "cringe" and is a big turn off."

Great point. Thinking about what you said, I realized I stopped really enjoying "new" music when the trend was for the singer to write his/her own music. Do what you do best - most singer/songwriters don't excel at either much of the time, but that's a different discussion.

[chrishuyen]

Posted: 12/26/23 at 10:09pm

Based on my personal experience, a lot of people who say they don't like musicals just haven't had good experiences with musicals in the past (and yet they all seem to enjoy Disney musicals so....) and don't quite realize the breadth of musicals there are.  A lot of people still think of musicals as old timey song and dance shows that can't be about anything serious, or they see one musical that they don't like and just assume all musicals are like that.  But if you watch one movie that you don't like, you wouldn't necessarily swear off all movies, so I don't think people realize that musicals can be as varied as something like movies or TV shows.

I did have a friend who somehow thought musicals could only be comedies, and that the act of singing about feelings was "cheesy".  When Jesus Christ Superstar was mentioned as a musical, he just assumed it would be like Book of Mormon, because he couldn't picture a "serious" take on the story of Jesus Christ in musical form.  I don't know what shows (if any) he had seen in the past, but his first Broadway show was Kimberly Akimbo and he had no clue that musicals could portray such a wide variety of issues and emotions. 

I think dan94 has a bit of a point in people being able to mentally keep up with musicals.  A lot of people I know who watch musicals very casually (maybe once a year if that) don't seem to be able to follow along with lyrics as well, and possibly also tune out lyrics to a certain extent when the singing starts, since oftentimes in pop culture, music is used as something in the background and lyrics aren't necessarily a major part of listening to the song as long as it has a good beat (I recognize there are many exceptions to this, but I'm talking in broad generics).  And especially when there's a production number, I think people might be more caught up in the spectacle of what's happening on stage rather than how it's moving the story.  I had a friend who I took to Hadestown and while she enjoyed it for the visuals, she had trouble following the story because it was sung through and she wasn't used to that kind of medium.

Like others have said, I do think a lot of the success of a musical really depends on how the music itself speaks to someone as well.  Again, there seems to be this idea that the style of music in many musicals is the razzle dazzle kickline style of last century, and while Hamilton has done a bit to change that persepective, it's still being seen as an exception.  And the "contemporary musical theater" style doesn't quite match up to popular song styles today either.  FWIW, as a younger millennial, I still think many of the scores by people such as R&H are much more varied and catchy than many of the newer musical theater composers today, but that style may not appeal to everyone.  

Updated On: 12/26/23 at 10:09 PM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 12/26/23 at 11:50pm

dramamama611 said: "There are very few things in this world that EVERYONE likes. We don't all watch sports....or all sports. We don't all like horror films, or sushi or WHATEVER. SO WHAT?! It's not my job to change that. It's not the NFL's job to change that nor the sushi chef. And you know what? ITS FINE."

It's not your job, but it IS someone's. What might not be important to you is very important to those who are trying to make money in a tough business. 

The sports leagues spend a fortune studying what would make attending games more appealing. As one example, there have been complaints for years that baseball is too slow. So they studied it and experimented in the minor leagues, and this past season they implemented changes in the big leagues to speed up the game and make it more exciting. They have also played with start times in some cities. And it has worked. So this idea you have that you can just build it and they will come is just wrong. Sushi restaurants have done things to keep an eye on what people want. So we have rolls without carbs, and even without fish! Italian restaurants have noted that they can help their businesses by offering gluten free pasta, impossible ragu, and so on. Tastes change and a business that rests on its laurels will have plenty of time to rest. Some very good points have been made in this thread, and some very bad ones. A lot of posts are making things more complicated than they are. Lots of us just came back from Christmas. We heard grandpa's jokes. He thinks they are hilarious. We laugh politely but we did not pay to hear them. Music is the same. Take a smart 25-30 year old with you to the theatre sometime. You'll learn what's wrong with the scores you want them to love. Resonance is the mantra. Was it Barnum or Merrick who said you can't give people tickets they don't want to buy?

[baritonewithtenortendencies]

Posted: 12/27/23 at 12:33am

dramamama611 said: "That's my tag or signature or whatever it's called here. It shows up on every post I make, it has nothing to do with this specific conversation. (Yes, the most recent "upate" to the website made it less clear to see that's not part of my actual post.)"

Oh I'm so sorry it literally looked like a part of the post that's my bad

[Seb28]

Posted: 12/27/23 at 8:07am

Penna2 said: "I realized I stopped really enjoying "new" music when the trend was for the singer to write his/her own music. Do what you do best - most singer/songwriters don't excel at either much of the time, but that's a different discussion."

Good point, me too. 

I also think that the "dislike for pop singers who do not write their own songs" has nothing to do with actors playing a role in musicals which are not written by themselves. Everyone knows, accepts and loves the fact that a show or movie is written by other people. Nobody expects any actor to have written the show themselves. In fact, it feels more cringe when that is sometimes the case. The magic is to see what somebody does with the material. Resulting in situations like Hamilton, where every other actor playing the lead role was better. Imagine expecting that all actors wrote their Hollywood movies or musicals themselves. A good casting process is needed, or else it does not feel sincere to me. But to think that "not writing their own material" is the reason that people would not like musicals is not the case in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

[Seb28]

Posted: 12/27/23 at 8:31am

chrishuyen said: "Like others have said, I do think a lot of the success of a musical really depends on how the music itself speaks to someone as well.

And the "contemporary musical theater" style doesn't quite match up to popular song styles today either. ."

I think this is very true and a matter of what you are being exposed to in your youth/childhood. A brain-development thing. 

My nephew and niece from one side of the family grew up with music, always the Carpenters in the background during Christmas, watching Disney Classics from when they had actual music (before 1996), and they are intelligent, well developed teenagers now, with a big passion for theatre and music in general. They have good musical ear too and understand harmonies, etc. My nephew and niece from the other side of the family grew up with a play station and they have never heard music. Maybe only some disposable 2 chords pop songs in the background on the car radio. They still only play computer games in their late teens, and they truly do not recognize music or lyrics. When I play them something, their brain does not let it in, they have no interest and it seems like they really don't hear it. Their brain is locked. It's not recognized.

When I ask my other nephew and niece what they would want for their wedding, the most glorious ideas come out. When I ask the other 2 what they want for their wedding, they say they don't know, maybe the latest Rihanna song with 2 chords, and also that they truly don't care. Even her melodies fly over their heads.

Another example is whenever I see a choir of kids nowadays, for example in Christmas presentations, they all seem to be off key and always screaming the notes. Somehow they got the idea that that is what singing is. I think it's because of movies like "Frozen". They are just exposed to that, and now they do not know any better.

It really is that simple. People live based on what they do and do not know.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_TesYxhDmmQ

 

 

 

 

Updated On: 12/30/23 at 08:31 AM

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 12/27/23 at 9:49am

"The sports leagues spend a fortune studying what would make attending games more appealing. As one example, there have been complaints for years that baseball is too slow. So, they studied it and experimented in the minor leagues, and this past season they implemented changes in the big leagues to speed up the game and make it more exciting. They have also played with start times in some cities. And it has worked".

Excellent point and you are 100% correct IMO. MLB instituted a pitch clock which sped up the game and cut about 10 minutes off the average length of game. They eliminated the shift which was causing scoring to be down and with that change there was more offense in games. This made games more exciting to watch. Start times were moved up at certain night games to 6:40pm. This helped people get home early who had to work the next day or wanted to get kids home to bed at decent hour. 

'The bottom line is that most people don't like what we are producing as musicals, and apropos of what is in #4 above, how many were dragged to Almost Famous or SLIH who will never return? (BTW, some of K&E has indeed risen above, although if you correct for star driven and demographics, I am not sure how comfortable Cabaret and Chicago make me. Similarly, I don't think anyone could seriously argue that the Music Man would have attracted a crowd without Jackman. And here again this is a show that reinforces the negative stereotype for the young and impressionable."

I can't tell you how many people I knew thought the idea of having "Rocky" as a musical was not only stupid but incredibly lame. Just one example of a show that people in general think was a bad idea for a musical. Why pay Broadway prices to hear songs by a pop artist that you could either listen to their albums or in some cases actually go to one of their concerts. The storyline for most jukebox musicals follows the same pattern. Singer comes out of nowhere to become a star, has issues with alcohol/drugs or abuse from family member. They rise above it and most cases live happily ever after -lol.  Old time musicals are only popular with older demographic and to be really successful need a big-time star like Jackman or Midler. The young people I know that enjoy theater a little bit is not into "song and dance" shows.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 12/27/23 at 1:07pm

Zeppie2022 said: "The young people I know that enjoy theater a little bit is not into "song and dance" shows."

This prompts a few observations. 

First, I don't believe this lack of affinity is limited to "young people" in the sense that the musical theatre style was waning before the end of the boomer generation. So we basically have about 50 years (counting from the teen years) of humans for whom the prevalent forms of music have been out of sync with the traditional musical theatre stuff. 

That's not to say that no one from later generations were interested in musical theatre "song and dance" or that everyone born in the 50s failed to evolve in music taste. 

Another point I'd make is that the attitude of those here who cannot wrap their head around new music is in fact the same phenomenon experienced by others in reverse. I think it would be useful for that group to think about that. Talking to those who "don't like musicals" will yield the discovery that the conventions of old fashioned musical theatre (they refer to it as "craft" to create the kind of unwelcoming environment I spoke about earlier) don't resonate for them any less than the reverse.

Finally, I'd point out that a parallel situation exists with regard to choreography. Most of those who don't like the newfangled music also don't like more contemporary aesthetics in dance. And v/v. 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 1/15/24 at 9:39pm

“Titanic, the Musical”

Some ignorant people think the very idea of such a show is ridiculous. Disrespectful, even. This to me shows how very often people who “don’t like” musicals really have no clue about what a musical is. They see it as something frivolous and “gay”, not something serious and manly. Sport is sacrosanct and to revered at all times, art is for sissies. 

Just another symptom of the misogynistic heteronormative society we still live in.
 

 

Updated On: 1/15/24 at 09:39 PM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 1/16/24 at 7:26am

HogansHero said: "dramamama611 said: "There are very few things in this world that EVERYONE likes. We don't all watch sports....or all sports. We don't all like horror films, or sushi or WHATEVER. SO WHAT?! It's not my job to change that. It's not the NFL's job to change that nor the sushi chef. And you know what? ITS FINE."

It's not your job, but it IS someone's. What might not be important to you is very important to those who are trying to make money in a tough business.

The sports leagues spend a fortune studying what would make attending games more appealing. As one example, there have been complaints for years that baseball is too slow. So they studied it and experimented in the minor leagues, and this past season they implemented changes in the big leagues to speed up the game and make it more exciting. They have also played with start times in some cities. And it has worked. So this idea you have that you can just build it and they will come is just wrong. Sushi restaurants have done things to keep an eye on what people want. So we have rolls without carbs, and even without fish! Italian restaurants have noted that they can help their businesses by offering gluten free pasta, impossible ragu, and so on. Tastes change and a business that rests on its laurels will have plenty of time to rest. Some very good points have been made in this thread, and some very bad ones. A lot of posts are making things more complicated than they are. Lots of us just came back from Christmas. We heard grandpa's jokes. He thinks they are hilarious. We laugh politely but we did not pay to hear them. Music is the same. Take a smart 25-30 year old with you to the theatre sometime. You'll learn what's wrong with the scores you want them to love. Resonance is the mantra. Was it Barnum or Merrick who said you can't give people tickets they don't want to buy?"

Totally valid and interesting points that obviously I hadn't considered.

 

Someone earlier also talked about exposure from families. My siblings are pretty varied. Obv I am a huge fan. My brother? Rolls his eyes and likely hasn't seen one since he was a kid (and it's not a macho thing, he's pretty woke about most things) and my sister that's in between. She's always down when I suggest going together but doesn't venture very often without me...and as far as I know never listens to cast recordings. 

[bwaylvsong1]

Posted: 1/16/24 at 8:43am

dramamama611 said: 
and my sister that's in between. She's always down when I suggest going together but doesn't venture very often without me...and as far as I know never listens to cast recordings."

This is pretty much my impression of how the vast majority of people view musicals… a positive-leaning neutral.  They’ll go to see the show and enjoy it, but it’s not something they would usually do of their own volition… it’s just entertainment/an activity to them, on par with going to the movies.  If they find themselves vacationing in a city with a lot of theatre, they’ll see one show but won’t build their trip around it.

[BeingAlive44Ever]

Posted: 1/16/24 at 7:49pm

bwaylvsong1 said: "dramamama611 said:
and my sister that's in between. She's always down when I suggest going together but doesn't venture very often without me...and as far as I know never listens to cast recordings."

This is pretty much my impression of how the vast majority of people view musicals… a positive-leaning neutral. They’ll go to see the show and enjoy it, but it’s not something they would usually do of their own volition… it’s just entertainment/an activity to them, on par with going to the movies. If they find themselves vacationing in a city with a lot of theatre, they’ll see one show but won’t build their trip around it."

I'm more of a "any time I'm not obsessing over opera, I will be doing musical theatre"

[EDSOSLO858]

Posted: 1/16/24 at 8:04pm

It’s just as much that lots of people don’t care about musicals as they don’t like them. 

[NoItAll]

Posted: 1/17/24 at 2:07am

Jay Lerner-Z said: "“Titanic, the Musical”
“Some ignorant people think the very idea of such a show is ridiculous. …
Just another symptom of the misogynistic heteronormative society we still live in."

Either this is a brilliant parody of modern woke idiocy or deeply subtle irony meant to demonstrate it’s not the musical but the people who like the musical that many can’t abide.

In either case, kudos.

 

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 1/17/24 at 5:42am

I’ve come to greatly prefer plays to musicals last few years. There’s just nothing of similar caliber to the lush and euphoric golden age musics nor to the sophisticated and carefully crafted Sondheim musicals. Sure, I’ve been floored by shows like The Great Comet, Fun Home, and the Band’s Visit, but it seems that they are proving to be increasingly financially unviable in today’s market and what we get instead just isn’t that good. On the other hand, I find myself enjoying plays more with some of the recent offerings on and off Broadway. They are more likely to have me feel uneasy in a good way and stay with me for much longer after getting out of the theater.

[Melissa25]

Posted: 1/17/24 at 9:06am

Many don’t like musicals because they don’t want to experience the in your face feelings that are usually put forth.  It takes a lot of energy and you have to be willing to join that emotional ride.  It’s easier to scroll than be moved by your own feelings.

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 1/17/24 at 10:56am

They're following trends. They're not thinking for themselves