Report Abuse Links opinion thread- Page 18

[Sally Durant Plummer]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 10:46pm

Of course they were. Van Hove should look no farther - this is the reimagined "Crucible" for today!

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 10:47pm

Oh my.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 10:55pm

PalJoey said: " 

 

Let's all make it clear to the theater professionals we know personally that 99% of the posts on this board are positive, from posters of all ages who passionately love the theater and individual performers.

 

 

 

And let's make it clear to them that for every negative post about a performer or a show, there are a dozen or a hundred in favor of that show or in love with that performer. There are fan threads and love threads and Rentheads and Wicked devotees and Avenue Q groupies and Book of Mormon maniacs and Color Purple people and American in Paris devotées and King and I loyal subjects--and posters for whom Cabaret or Chicago or Hedwig or Hello Dolly are the greatest things that have ever happened. Literally.

 

 

 

And tell them all, as I will, that there are endless threads about shows like Hamilton (and others) that are exclusively celebratory, sometimes overwhelmingly celebratory, sometimes to the amazement of posters who have not seen the show yet.

 

 

 

And please tell those theater-professional friends, as I will, that we think that performers like Patti Murin who call the board names like "cesspool of negativity" are insulting the rest of us, selectively noticing the negative posts and deliberately ignoring the overwhelming fact that BroadwayWorld is a place where people from teenagers to octogenarians come to celebrate Broadway and the people who work there. That's who we are--and some of us, I dare say, are even Patti Murin fans. (Or were.)

 

 

 

And please tell those theater people, as I will, that for a single actress to call for the boards to be taken down, simply because once one poster said something disparaging about her ability to belt a High C, well, we think that just stinks.

 

 

 

So I think the poster who said that, years ago, should apologize to Patti Murin. And I think every poster who has ever posted an ad hominem attack should makes amends to that performer. (As I will.)

 

 

 

But I think Patti Murin owes every true theater-lover on this board a deep and sincere apology for her terrible, awful and indefensible call to "take down the boards."

 

 

 

So Patti--I'm waiting for that Tweet.

 

 

 

Yr pal, Joey

 

 

"

 

Quoting to make sure this doesn't get lost, or for anyone who missed it earlier. Belated thanks, PJ! Maybe we need the reminder.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 3/12/16 at 11:15pm

ljay889 said: "Man....why Pasquale? Why? And he's pretty much adored around here which makes his outrage even stranger. 

 

"

I own every recording Pasquale has made AND I watch his TV show.

 

I might never have heard of him were it not for this board.

[AC126748]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 8:11am

10086sunset said: "AC126748, you don't deserve this treatment coming from Margo.

 

Shame on those attempting to distort the facts. 

 

Thanks, sunset. I'm not offended by Margo's specious remarks, and they're not even close to the worst I've encountered in the digital space. Mostly, I am amused by the irony of her purporting that I have distorted facts in order to fit my narrative -- which is exactly what she has done.

 

I also have to agree with ljay, Kad, Gaveston etc. that it seems rather odd for Pasquale to have chosen this hill to die on. He is a near-universally praised artist; this board is swimming with fans of his. Sure, he can feel solidarity with other performers, but for him to call for the complete removal of the message board (and then to respond so arrogantly to someone just asking questions) is disappointing.

 

I felt the same way about Kurt Deutsch, who wrote this on his public Facebook page:

 

"I have had serious discussions about the toxicity of these anonymous message boards with the folks who run Broadwayworld.com. It is why my company Sh-K-Boom/Ghostlight does not participate in advertising with them and rarely gives them exclusive content. The chat boards have no place on a website that wants to promote and celebrate theatre. Every other legitimate theatre website has gotten rid of them. Bravo to Patti Murin for speaking out -- Maybe its time the producers of theatre should stand with Patti and all of the other creators of shows and performers that get cyber abused anonymously and demand that the message boards be removed or pull their advertising dollars from them."

 

Dear Kurt: in a day and age where cast recordings sell about as well as VCRs, who do you think actually buys your products? The people who post on BWW and ATC. Know where your bread is buttered.

 

Updated On: 3/13/16 at 08:11 AM

[best12bars]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 8:41am

As business professionals, these people of the theatre community are making foolish public statements. This whole "Patti-gate" has shed an ugly light, but perhaps not in the direction intended.

[Pootie2]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 8:49am

So never buy any Sh-K-Boom/Ghostlight products if you've ever used this board in an informative manner. Noted. I wonder what Rob would have to say about the economics, since he did mention the amount of traffic that passes through, I expect very significantly just from board members.

[tazber]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 9:43am

That is very disappointing.

 

It would be very easy for me to never actually pay for music from Sh-k-boom again. There are copies of everything they release available for free if you know where to ask.

 

I would never do that because I believe in supporting the companies that invest in something I love so much.

 

But there are a bunch of cds I've bought from them sound unheard because I was always so happy to support them.

 

That's gonna stop.

 

 

I just really wish people would think this through a bit more before commenting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Updated On: 3/13/16 at 09:43 AM

[AC126748]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 9:50am

I agree, Taz. The comments from the actors are perhaps predictable. Actors don't always think like businesspeople, and they react emotionally. Deutsch is not just a businessman, but one who sells a niche product -- we are his market. His comments do a lot to alienate the very people who are his customers. I would have expected more from him. Then again, he comes from a wealthy family, so perhaps he doesn't have to care. 

[Marianne2]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 9:54am

This is insane. I agree, Tazber. If I can find their cds at the flea market, I would be happy to pay whatever it is whoever is selling them for so the money can go to a charity that will appreciate our purchases.

 

It's very fascinating how these people want to alienate their general audience. What do they think about the people who come into the theater and do rude things during the show? Or is that fine because they are being rude to their faces? 

[yankeefan7]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 10:11am

"Quoting to make sure this doesn't get lost, or for anyone who missed it earlier. Belated thanks, PJ! Maybe we need the reminder."

 

That was a great post by PJ and thanks for doing this because I did miss it - lol

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 10:15am

It's interesting in the choice of tense Deutsch uses there -- how long ago did he decide this, and did any of these conversations involve Rob? Were there opportunities to announce a more tightly run ship here that were simply turned down?

[10086sunset]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 10:23am

Mr. Deutsch seems to support company who share his feelings regarding these boards. 

Anyone wanna guess which show he went to see last night?

If you said The Robber Bridegroom, you would be correct. 

 

[Kad]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 10:27am

"Cyber abused"? I can think of no situation in which a performer has ever been actively harassed or abused on this site. As I've noted before, the victims of any harassment or abuse on here are other users. But, hey, who cares about them if they're not a Broadway performer, right? 

And every "legitimate theatre website"? Of the major ones, Broadway.com is the only other one to have had one. 

Amazing that these people would rather theatre fans have no place to connect online. 

Updated On: 3/13/16 at 10:27 AM

[Sunny11]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 10:28am

What percentage of a shows paying audience actually participate on these theatre message boards though? 

Not a significant amount I think, since commercial success doesn't always collarate with opinions expressed on here.

These actors may not have a high opinion for message boards because they know that, promoting their shows on TV, the Macy's parade, Tony awards ect has the more significant affect on their success. 

 

Updated On: 3/13/16 at 10:28 AM

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 10:29am

Kad: The Tony Awards site used to have a message board, but I believe it was folded into All That Chat. I think Playbill had a board along with a chat room back in the late '90s. But I doubt this specifically is what Deutsch is referring to.

[Marianne2]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 10:32am

Yeah, I have seen far worse behavior on twitter. I've heard of actors getting death threats and similar there. Heck, celebrities aren't even nice to each other there. 

[Kad]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 10:33am

If that's the case, neither were deleted due to behavior. And although Broadway.com's operator claims that was the reason why his board was deleted, I find that claim dubious as the deletion coincided with a massive overhaul of the site (into a website that, frankly, should not be treated as "legitimate" at all).

[AC126748]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 10:35am

I think of Broadway.com as a site whose legitimate goal is to sell $325 orchestra seats to shows that are on the TKTS booth, to tourists who don't know any better. I guess that is what makes one an essential member of the community, or however Steve phrased it in his tweet. 

[Hellob]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 11:16am

I think her summary of the tweet to Pasquale was consistent with what she said. Synonyms are a thing. I also agree that his response read flippant in tone. If you want to take a stance and then get questions about it, saying bye bye isn't really cool. The "pay attention" thing is pretty rude. He can stand by his thought about snark and still say he appreciates the fans/love. I also think Murin would have been more successful if she did the same. Acknowledging the good and bad would have put a light on the bad and not alienate the positive. It is victim mentality and too b&w. 

[Pootie2]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 11:19am

Sunny11 said: "What percentage of a shows paying audience actually participate on these theatre message boards though? 

 

Not a significant amount I think, since commercial success doesn't always collarate with opinions expressed on here.

 

These actors may not have a high opinion for message boards because they know that, promoting their shows on TV, the Macy's parade, Tony awards ect has the more significant affect on their success. "

 

 

This is certainly true for those shows that have whatever formula works as a tourist-based commercial success, but as someone else noted, many shows that are not commercial hits with the tourists have audiences that are more primed to coincide with this board that is full of veterans who may appreciate whatever artistic efforts more than those who can spend limited currency for specific "safe" shows once a year. Plays and off-Broadway demographics, what do those look like?

 

While tourists account for a huge amount of annual income to Broadway, one statistic that has always stood out to me (in the demographics thread) is that a small percentage of customers account for a very significant portion of flat ticket sales--these are the repeat viewers. I expect only "locals" comprise this number, and I expect "locals" are more likely to be aware of and participate on this board. The Flea Market, for example, I don't expect to be a large tourist attraction (I really wish someone could survey a couple thousand customers there to see demographics, though).

 

Maybe board members and Rob can suggest and sticky useful threads to the top, like tips on when and where to buy Broadway show tickets, general advice for rush and lottery, what websites to use or avoid (avoid Broadway.com to avoid being ripped off), and so on. All the information is here, but the search function isn't the best.

Updated On: 3/13/16 at 11:19 AM

[Kad]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 11:22am

The greatest resource here are the members themselves, though. People like PalJoey, Gaveston, Borstalboy, best12bars, Smaxie, etc. etc. are knowledgeable- experts, even- with a wide array of experience with Broadway and theatre in general. 

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 11:24am

I can absolutely grant that performers have the right to not like that these boards exist, or even call for their removal. I feel fortunate that these boards exist, as I've learned a considerable amount here and have been exposed to material that I otherwise wouldn't have found. And I can understand why a performer wouldn't want to read anything posted here- and I don't think a call for less toxicity is itself a terrible thing.

That said, I do take umbrage with people referring to anything post here as harrassment or cyber bullying. Are there harsh comments posted here? Absolutely. But frankly I find it insulting to compare even the harshest comment here to anything resembling actual harrassment, given that there are thousands of people, especially women, who deal with daily harrassment on the Internet. That doesn't mean nasty comments- that means death threats, doxxing, etc. No one likes to read a mean comment about there work, but it's flat out wrong to compare anything said here with actual abuse. Like I said, I don't really care if actors don't want to read anything here, but if your critique of this website is that over the top, how can you expect anyone to take it seriously? 

[AC126748]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 11:31am

So, I have a serious questions. Can anyone in whatever constitutes a position of power here explain to me why FindingNamo and PRS are suspended, yet this Margo person is still allowed to post with impunity? She has very clearly violated the stated guidelines -- "No personal attacks - we all have different opinions - disagree with the view, not with the person. This includes other posters, performers and artists. You can not like a show, performer, performance, etc. but insulting the person, their mental state or intellect, physical appearance or anything of the sort will be removed". Go read her post about Kanye West that ClydeBarrow shared, then read her defense of calling him "mentally ill". That's to say nothing of the lies she spread about me. 

Updated On: 3/13/16 at 11:31 AM

[ClydeBarrow]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 11:34am

AC126748 said: "So, I have a serious questions. Can anyone in whatever constitutes a position of power here explain to me why FindingNamo and PRS are suspended, yet this Margo person is still allowed to post with impunity? She has very clearly violated the stated guidelines -- "No personal attacks - we all have different opinions - disagree with the view, not with the person. This includes other posters, performers and artists. You can not like a show, performer, performance, etc. but insulting the person, their mental state or intellect, physical appearance or anything of the sort will be removed". Go read her post about Kanye West that ClydeBarrow shared, then read her defense of calling him "mentally ill". That's to say nothing of the lies she spread about me. "

 

I'd like an answer to this as well.