Riedel on the current season- Page 5

[pupscotch]

Posted: 4/6/17 at 4:07pm

BroadwayConcierge said: "Kad said: "I saw DEH at Second Stage and quite frankly time has diminished the show in my eyes substantially. It is anchored by Platt and Bay Jones- I think they're ultimately load-bearing performances that hold the piece up."

I'm precisely in the same boat here.

Months have passed since I've seen DEH, Comet, and Come from Away, and in my eyes, Comet is the only one that astonished me and hasn't waned since. DEH and Come from Away are fine, extremely good shows, but to me, Comet was on another level, and represents what's exciting about the future of musical theatre.

 

"

I completely agree. Nothing has left a greater impression on me than Comet, and though I recognize that hope is slim, I really do want it to win and believe it deserves to.

[BroadwayBaby6]

Posted: 4/6/17 at 11:08pm

The road producers make up 30% of the best musical voters. I think DEH will have a slight edge of the Great Comet. Great Comet is not a show that will play well outside of New York. I personally think DEH is the best new musical playing right now. 

[ggersten]

Posted: 4/6/17 at 11:17pm

I hear there is this other musical that's doing real well, grossing on average 96% of its potential gross.   Somebody must like A Bronx Tale....and don't you think the Tony Awards want Robert De Niro on stage for the awards ceremony?  

[deltatee]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 8:25am

As much as I love The Comet and think it is a groundbreaking show that absolutely deserves to win, I do think DEH and CFA have an edge for the very reason that they are better suited to touring. And local producers want to be able to present last year's winner to their subscribers. 

[IdinaBellFoster]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 8:36am

ggersten said: "I hear there is this other musical that's doing real well, grossing on average 96% of its potential gross.   Somebody must like A Bronx Tale....and don't you think the Tony Awards want Robert De Niro on stage for the awards ceremony?  "

The producers of the telecast and the Tony nominating committee are not the same people. 

[neonlightsxo]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 9:24am

deltatee said: "As much as I love The Comet and think it is a groundbreaking show that absolutely deserves to win, I do think DEH and CFA have an edge for the very reason that they are better suited to touring. And local producers want to be able to present last year's winner to their subscribers. "

So was American in Paris. How did that turn out?

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 9:38am

Yeah, after Gentleman's Guide and Fun Home won in their years, I think that touring argument needs to be put to rest. Plus, I don't think DEH is necessarily an easy sell on the road, given the subject matter. If that argument were the case something like A Bronx Tale would win. 

[deltatee]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 10:00am

neonlightsxo said: "deltatee said: "As much as I love The Comet and think it is a groundbreaking show that absolutely deserves to win, I do think DEH and CFA have an edge for the very reason that they are better suited to touring. And local producers want to be able to present last year's winner to their subscribers. "

So was American in Paris. How did that turn out?

No one said it is dispositive of whether a show will actually win (e.g., Fun Home, Once).  But it is factor that should not be ignored in years like this one where the race seems to be very close.

 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 10:29am

This is another situation in which it is well to remember that there are no rules. 

[ggersten]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 10:38am

HogansHero said: "This is another situation in which it is well to remember that there are no rules. "

The rule is that there are no rules?

 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 11:01am

indeed. in the theatre this is the only valid rule. 

[Kad]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 11:22am

The whole "the road producers decide this!" argument has never really been supported by history.

[little_sally]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 11:27am

Also, I really don't see why Great Comet wouldn't do well on tour/regionally. I think it could be re-worked for a proscenium stage.

[Stage Door Sally]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 11:37am

Yeah, that road producers thing doesn't seem credible. Thoroughly Modern Millie beat out Urinetown. I can't remember the last time I've seen Millie performed locally. Urinetown is performed all over creation. I've seen many good productions and a few bad ones. (I had to walk out of one performance at intermission because the show was directed as if it was a heavy drama). In light of the nation's political climate, more than ever it should be revived on Broadway.

[bdn223]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 11:40am

The touring argument is valid when it is an tight race. When A Gentleman's Guide to Love and Murder's won over Beautiful, we have to remember that the race wasn't so much Gentleman's Guide vs Beautiful as it was Gentleman's Guide vs After Midnight. The only reason Beautiful was even in consideration was because both Gentleman's Guide and  After Midnight, were limping toward Tony Night. Beautiful on the other hand was the season's surprise sleeper hit with the powerhouse performance of Jesse Meuller, akin to Sutton Foster in Millie, and Idena Menzel in Wicked, both of whom she competed against for Best Actress.

When it comes to Fun Home vs An American in Paris, there really was no race. The problem was the Fun Home being an Off-Broadway transfer from the prior season was ineligible for all Drama Desk, Drama League, and Outer Critics Circle Awards,  allowing An American in Paris' producers to play the momentum card. The entire Broadway community as behind Fun Home, and if that happens there are not enough road producers to outweigh that. When there is no race, people try to create one to keep things interesting. 

 

There are 3 examples in recent memory where the Touring producers can be seen playing the deciding factor for Best Musical, Wicked vs Avenue Q, Billy Elliot vs Next to Normal, and Once vs Newsies. In the former it is documented that many touring producers were upset when Avenue Q canceled its national tour in favor of a sit down production in Las Vegas, as they said that was the only reason they voted for it, believing Wicked was an easy sell, and if Avenue Q won Best musical they would have 2 easy sells to their subscribers.

Regarding the second, Next to Normal was the opposite scenario, where after being burned by the Avenue Q, producers first didn't trust that Next to Normal would actually tour. Second that such a small show with no eye catching visual and  a cast of 6 that was currently playing to an intimate house with less than 800 seats, couldn't possibly work in touring houses with 3000+ seats. The ironic thing to that reasoning is was that just as the Avenue Q was angered tour producers by not actually touring, Billy Elliot's tour tour was a financial mess with the sit down production in Chicago, and having to change producing companies within the first year of the actual tour. All this while Next to Normal actually did pretty well on tour. 

Then for the final, which is somewhat the place we are still in, many road producers believed Newsies was an easy sell on tour regardless of whether it won a Tony as its a Disney show.  On the other hand, many road producers believed Once needed the Tony to make it a must see on the road. In other words, similar to the Avenue Q vs Wicked, why present have only one must see in your season when you can have 2. 

This year seems poised to be a very tight race between the artistic innovation masterpiece that is The Great Comet, the critical darling and surprise juggernaut  box office hit that is Dear Evan Hansen, and the feel good musical of the year Come From Away. First of all 2 of the 3 are ineligible for all of the pre-Tony awards since they are off Broadway transfers. I wouldn't be surprised though if The Great Comet's producers try and get it eligible in all of the technical awards since this is technically a completely different production that was "inspired" by the off Broadway production considering its been so radically redesigned going from a sit specific production to a proscenium stage, as well as a "revival" as it had been approximately 2.5-3 years since it closed off Broadway. Add to that we still don't know how Groundhog Day  will be received so either Come From Away Or Groundhog Day will likely sweep the pre-Tony awards, allowing them to campaign as the "Most Award Winning Show of the Season." Due to all of these unknowns and the fact that is such a close race, I honestly do believe road producers will be a deciding factor. 

[IdinaBellFoster]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 11:43am

Stage Door Sally said: "Yeah, that road producers thing doesn't seem credible. Thoroughly Modern Millie beat out Urinetown. I can't remember the last time I've seen Millie performed locally. Urinetown is performed all over creation. I've seen many good productions and a few bad ones. (I had to walk out of one performance at intermission because the show was directed as if it was a heavy drama). In light of the nation's political climate, more than ever it should be revived on Broadway."

I agree that URINETOWN should be revived...but also THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE is a very popular commodity for high schools. 

 

[neonlightsxo]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 11:47am

Every time bdn posts on this board, I have to lie down.

[froote]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 11:53am

Unless Ben Platt joined the tour - which I don't think he would - none of these shows scream 'would sell well on tour'. 

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 12:01pm

I think that you also need to look at the shows in particular as well. Come From Away is something that even if it didn't run long on Broadway, has a great life afterwards. There is already a return engagement in Toronto planned for February 2018, and a regional production announced in Winnipeg. I'm sure if Come From Away came to some of the major cities, and returned to those that it previously visited where they sold out, it would do well regardless of the Broadway performance.

Also, David Mirvish, the "road producer" for Toronto has put money into some shows that I feel the Toronto audience would enjoy, but maybe other may not. He tends to bring a lot from the West End, or else where that never end up making it on Broadway. We currently have Mrs. Henderson Presents..., and our next season is full of things from the National, and West End. There are shows that are big ones that come to Toronto (Newsies, Beautiful, Kinky Boots), but those offset the production of The Judas Kiss, The Lorax, Strictly Ballroom, etc. Hell, we even got a run of the Kathleen Turner play 'High" that was a longer run than the Broadway one. There are days I'd kill for the season from Denver, or Miami, or Buffalo.

Updated On: 4/7/17 at 12:01 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 12:12pm

bdn- that's really conjecture. Since road producers don't necessarily vote as a bloc and we have no statements or data outlining how people vote, it's not accurate to say how or even whether road producers influenced those wins.

Updated On: 4/7/17 at 12:12 PM

[IdinaBellFoster]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 1:27pm

The road voters argument has so many holes in it. FUN HOME over AN AMERICAN IN PARIS? GENTLEMEN'S GUIDE over ALADDIN? ONCE over NEWSIES?

[deltatee]

Posted: 4/7/17 at 2:14pm

It really is true that we have no way to really know the impact or non-impact of anything on the outcome of the race because there is no database identifying each voter, their vote, and countless factors.  Everything we think we might know (from the Ars Nova snub to road voters) is all speculation.  

Bdn raises a good point that it is entirely possible road voters voted for shows like Once, Gentleman's Guide, etc. to prop those shows up so they could tour and given them more attractions.  Why vote for Newsies if you already know it is likely to tour if you think Once might tour if it wins?  We just don't know.

I think one thing that distinguishes Comet from Fun Home, Gentleman's Guide, and Once is that I really have no idea how it can be adapted to the road while maintaining its integrity. The challenge with Comet is more than playing in a bigger venue or doing some re-staging. I'm not saying it can't be done, but if it can, that is going to be some incredibly impressive work!  I suspect this might be a concern for road voters.

Again, I don't think anyone is saying road voters will vote for the show most likely to tour and that their vote decides who wins, it's just a wild card that could be important in a close race.

[Jeffrey Karasarides]

Posted: 4/8/17 at 12:10am

The road producers only make up about 10% of the voting bloc, so I doubt it's really going to make that big of an impact.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 4/8/17 at 12:26am

your math is off a bit but that's beside the point. Every vote is important just like every ticket sale is. Those who don't think so make flops.

[djoko84]

Posted: 4/9/17 at 3:19am

It's DEH vs Come From Away for Best Musical. Comet doesn't have a chance. Forget about it.