Sondheim calls the FOLLIES obcr a "dreadful album".....

[ljay889]

Posted: 11/24/11 at 12:36am

http://www.playbill.com/news/article/156912-A-Conversation-With-Stephen-Sondheim-On-Lyrics-On-Cast-Albums-On-Weekends-in-the-Country/pg1

I'm glad he agrees. It really is such an awful album. It's so choppy that even the opening chords of the prologue are truncated! The performers are so wonderful, but I rather listen to them on the soundboard audio.

In other news: he confirms that Bobby Goldman DOES tinker with the book. Now we know. It's been speculated for years. I assumed it was her and/or Schaeffer tinkering with this production.

Interesting.

Updated On: 11/24/11 at 12:36 AM

[bwayfan7000]

Posted: 11/24/11 at 12:44am

It makes me feel really guilty that I hate the OBCR so much, but it really is just bad. The new recording has all the elements I enjoy listening to: performances, orchestra, sound quality. 1971 may have arguably been a superior production, but the new revival can certainly boast the superior album.

[SondheimFan5]

Posted: 11/24/11 at 1:19am

I completely agree with Mr. Sondheim. The original cast is superior to any other (for the most part) but the original album is so awful.

[After Eight]

Posted: 11/24/11 at 3:03am

The OBC is my favorite recording of the show, and the only one I would listen to.

The original cast makes up for everything.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 11/24/11 at 3:42am

This is news? He's complained about it from nearly the start--even Hal Prince has (according to Everything Was Possible it was Hal who sold the rights to Capitol, not Columbia as Sondheim wanted, partially due to some disagreement Prince has since called foolish with Columbia at the time).

Columbia was, as far as I'm concerned, from the 50s to at least the mid 70s the best, by far, cast album company. Thanks to Goddard Lieberson's prpoduction work, in no small measure, they were always the most thoughtfully recorded (ie in terms of what was recorded, what wasn't, how much dialogue, if it warranted a two disc release, etc as well as what was recorded--without Lieberson stepping in, Anyone Can Whistle would have never been recorded, and there's no way he thought he'd make money from it), and had the best sound.

By all account Dick Jones who produced many of the Capitol recordings (including Forum, Funny Girl, Zorba and of course Follies) was a smart man who Sondheim got along with well, but didn't have the clout at Capitol that Lieberson did at Columbia, so often had to resort to rush jobs. The capitol albums almost always have inferior sound to Columbia's, but Follies is particularly badly balanced for a 70s recording, Sondheim said it was done in a makeshift studio and sounded like it was in a parking garage.

More importantly Jones apparently agreed with Sondheim that Follies needed a two LP cast albu, but Capitol said that made no financial sense and wouldn't allow it. Jones did allow Sondheim to record One More Kiss even though it couldn't it the album, as a favour--and of course it was added to the CD reissues.

Lieberson's protoge Thomas Z Shephard took over from him and recorded Company (Lieberson though asked personally to record Night Music because he was such a fan of the show, it was his idea to add so many extras strings to the recording--he also came out of retirement to do the Chorus Line cast album as he was a fan too). Shephard left for RCA by 1976 and Sondheim went with him (starting with Pacific Overturs). Shephard apparently could be hard to work with, and I've heard that by Into the Woods he chose not to work with him, but...

(I can only imagine if Capitol handled the Sweeney cast album and tried to squeeze it on one disc...)

THAT said, I think the Follies OBCR is more than worth it for those amazing performances. I like having the Papermill and this new one to spplement it and to get the full score (it's a shame they didn't decide to record Bolero D'Amour on this one even if it's cut from the revival)

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/24/11 at 10:13am

The person who mixed the OBCR with the soundboard should be given a medal. That's become my OBCR now.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/24/11 at 10:34am

And that's a wonderful interview, by the way.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 11/24/11 at 2:39pm

It is a wonderful interview, though I think it's tacky that the interviewer left in the part where he "stumps" Sondheim with a Porter verse that Sondheim doesn't recognize. Sondheim has never claimed to have memorized every show ever written.

Neither man had anything interesting to say about the Porter verse, so why mention it at all in the published interview?

***

Thanks, Eric, for the summary on the recording history. I especially agree with your last paragraph:

"...I think the Follies OBCR is more than worth it for those amazing performances. I like having the Papermill and this new one to spplement it and to get the full score (it's a shame they didn't decide to record Bolero D'Amour on this one even if it's cut from the revival)."

[rougeduck]

Posted: 11/24/11 at 3:34pm

Hi, you mentioned in your post a soundboard album. Where can I get this? Thank you! If you want to trade, I have a cute little collection.

[TheEnchantedHunter]

Posted: 11/24/11 at 5:45pm

Cuts notwithstanding, it is not awful in the least. No other album or production comes close to capturing the decadent, haunting atmosphere of the original and the performances could hardly be bettered. The show would not have developed its legendary reputation if it hadn't been for this 'awful' original cast recording. Period.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 11/24/11 at 5:55pm

I agree the OBCR is missing too much and what's there is choppy and sounds sloppy.
But that album is a seminal joy in my life. I memorized every breath, chord change and nuance. It totally changed me and my life.
Too dramatic?

Eric, the story of Hal and Steve disagreeing about the recording is so MERRILY...

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/24/11 at 6:09pm

More importantly Jones apparently agreed with Sondheim that Follies needed a two LP cast albu, but Capitol said that made no financial sense and wouldn't allow it.

And ironically, Two Gentlemen of Verona did receive a 2-LP release.

[Boredathome]

Posted: 11/24/11 at 6:44pm

"The show would not have developed its legendary reputation if it hadn't been for this 'awful' original cast recording. Period."

Is the word "Period" supposed to somehow cement your opinion as some kind of fact? What's wrong with simply stating your opinion without trying to put dissenting opinions under erasure?
Are empty words like "Period" an attempt to intimidate those who disagree?

[undercoveractor]

Posted: 11/24/11 at 6:58pm

I love the OBCR of both FOLLIES and DREAMGIRLS even though both seemed ot have suffered the same fate. The original performances for both shows ....in my opinion...were not so much performances, but rather like real people. I'm doubtful that any of them can be surpassed.
That said, I am thrilled with the new production even though it has faults of its own. When I get to sit down and listen to this new recording, I am sure that it will become something that I will love.

and btw TWO GENTELMEN OF VERONA is a great show with a great book and a great score. And although I think that FOLLIES probably should have won the Tony for Best Musical that year, TGOV is fantastic in it's own right. Thank God it was given such a comprehensive recording. (even though they replaced most of the ensemble with 'ringers')

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/24/11 at 7:35pm

and btw TWO GENTELMEN OF VERONA is a great show with a great book and a great score.

I was a fan of the score from the recording, but after seeing the recent production at the Delacorte, I'm a passionate fan of the show. Probably in the same way Follies fans are for their show. Personally, I totally get why Two Gentlemen of Verona won Best Musical. It's one of the most joyous experiences I've ever had watching a musical. It's a shame that production didn't enjoy a Broadway revival. And while the Two Gentlemen recording is still far from perfect, I wish there could be a recording of that Delacorte cast if for no other reason than to capture the brilliant performances of Renee Elyse Goldsberry and Norm Lewis, both of whom could have been serious Tony contenders. I will never EVER forget the rush I felt from Bring All the Boys Back Home, Night Letter, Love's Revenge and Love Me. Absolute bliss!

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 11/25/11 at 7:14am

"And ironically, Two Gentlemen of Verona did receive a 2-LP release."

I doubt irony had anything to do with it. More likely, the record company thought they had another HAIR on their hands and hoped the album would produce a half dozen or more pop hits just as HAIR did, something which would have justified the cost of the 2-disk release.

As for TWO GENTLEMEN, I only know it from a UCLA production, so I will assume the original production was absolutely perfect. But even given that assumption, TWO GENTLEMEN doesn't remotely approach the quality of FOLLIES by any objective standard.

That isn't to say anyone need apologize for *liking* TWO GENTLEMEN better (that's a matter of personal preference), but I think the Tony Award was yet another case of "nice" triumphing over "good".

[chewy5000]

Posted: 11/25/11 at 7:42am

I actually find that the treatment of the DREAMGIRLS recording, while suffering from it's incompleteness, makes for a very strong recording. Moves like combining the two "One Night Only's", separating "Aint No Party", and so on were really well done in my mind. Sure, it's not what was performed on stage, but it is a cracker of an album.

I believe that the FOLLIES recording, despite the poor sound quality, achieves some of the same. If only it included some form of Loveland...

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/25/11 at 10:32am

I doubt irony had anything to do with it.

Irony never has to do with anything. That's how irony works. It is ironic that the musical that lost Best Musical but won Best Score was refused a 2-LP recording while the musical that won Best Musical but lost Best Score did receive a 2-LP recording. Irony is an observation, not a reason or cause.

As for TWO GENTLEMEN, I only know it from a UCLA production, so I will assume the original production was absolutely perfect. But even given that assumption, TWO GENTLEMEN doesn't remotely approach the quality of FOLLIES by any objective standard.

Smells like sour grapes based on nothing more than assumptions. I'm not sure what the "objective standards" are, but it doesn't sound like you're including all of them when you say "any". I would never apologize for liking anything I like. Or preferring one show over another. I love Two Gentlemen of Verona. I like most of the score from Follies, but that's it. I'm not convinced it was a case of "nice" over "good", especially with the book that Follies had...has...had...has.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 11/26/11 at 12:57am

What company recorded Verona? I own the CD reissue which is Decca Broadway but I know they handle a number of back catalogs (ie Pippin is now on Decca Broadway and not Motown).

And yes, if we want to blame anyone for the abreviated Follies--send your hate mail to Hal Prince I do agree though that it's still an essential recording, and they (apparently Dick Jones and Sondheim) did as good as possible a job trying to capture the feel of the show (I think including even an extremely short version of Loveland would have helped just to bridge that section).

[bk]

Posted: 11/26/11 at 3:47am

Wasn't Verona on Atlantic?

Re Follies - I don't think it will ever happen, but I'm looking into seeing how it was recorded - eight tracks, sixteen, whatever. If it's multi-track (as was Promises and Sugar) and if something could be worked out, I might try to do a completely new mix as I did with Promises and Sugar - I'm sure the rights situation would be very complex since the original CD is always in print, but I'm going to see if anything is possible - I would just love to hear what the multitracks sound like and to see if anything could be done to better them - which I'm pretty sure would be the case.

And warts and all, no other Follies album will ever replace the original for me.

[Scripps2]

Posted: 11/26/11 at 5:11am

"you mentioned in your post a soundboard album. Where can I get this?"

I'd be interested to know this too. Thank you.

[alterego]

Posted: 11/26/11 at 6:41am

It may be a "dreadful album" but it is the only one I play...and it had the best cast.

BK...do it and I'll buy it.

[alterego]

Posted: 11/26/11 at 6:41am

It may be a "dreadful album" but it is the only one I play...and it had the best cast.

BK...do it and I'll buy it.

[After Eight]

Posted: 11/26/11 at 7:58am

"What company recorded Verona? "

ABC.

[theeatah]

Posted: 11/26/11 at 9:50am

I've always wondered why they didn't do Follies In Concert with the original cast. Most of them were still alive, right? Though, I do remember reading that Dorothy Collins was forced into early retirement by her chronic asthma.