TERF - Joshua Kaplan-penned play about JK Rowling to premiere at Edinburgh Fringe

[KevinKlawitter]

Posted: 7/10/24 at 10:53am

Premiering August 2

The article is kind of fascinatingly written in how it tries to describe Rowling's awful bigotry without saying it's awful bigotry. Also, it describes "Terf" as a "slur" - which it is not, the biggest clue to that being that they can use it in the headline of their article.

[Impeach2017]

Posted: 12/31/99 at 7:38pm

The title is offensive and stupid.  Attacking people as "radical feminists" is a surefire way to have your message misconstrued, ignored, or used against you.  

[KevinKlawitter]

Posted: 7/10/24 at 11:53am

Impeach2017 said: "The title is offensive and stupid. Attacking people as "radical feminists" is a surefire way to have your message misconstrued, ignored, or used against you."

It highlights their hypocrisy. If you're any sort of feminist you should support trans women because trans women are women.

[binau]

Posted: 7/10/24 at 12:27pm

This is one of the few social issues where I actually feel the public discourse and attitudes are becoming more negative than positive over time. For the safety, wellbeing and sanity of trans people I think trans activists (who are not the same thing as trans people, or at least the trans people I know who just want to live their lives) might need to start re-thinking their approach. It seems to be making things worse, not better. 

[roseaddams]

Posted: 7/10/24 at 1:59pm

Categorizing trans people into the good ones and the bad ones and telling activists to tone it down already is absolutely the best course of action.

[KevinKlawitter]

Posted: 7/10/24 at 2:13pm

binau said: "This is one of the few social issues where I actually feel the public discourse and attitudes are becoming more negative than positive over time. For the safety, wellbeing and sanity of trans people I think trans activists (who are not the same thing as trans people, or at least the trans people I know who just want to live their lives) might need to start re-thinking their approach. It seems to be making things worse, not better."

Not to derail the conversation any further, but this has less to do with anything pro-trans people are doing and more to do with the fact that two of the most vocal anti-trans bigots are billionaires who the media loves.

[TheQuibbler]

Posted: 7/11/24 at 10:13am

KevinKlawitter said: "Not to derail the conversation any further, but this has less to do with anything pro-trans people are doing and more to do with the fact that two of the most vocal anti-trans bigots are billionaires who the media loves."

Agree with that. I also can’t help but think that the rise in anti-trans bigotry and platforms are a direct result of the trans community making enormous strides in visibility and support. The community wouldn’t be scapegoated and targeted so much if those with an anti-trans viewpoints didn’t feel like they were losing something. 

[FANtomFollies]

Posted: 7/11/24 at 10:47am

binau said: "I think trans activists (who are not the same thing as trans people, or at least the trans people I know who just want to live their lives) might need to start re-thinking their approach. It seems to be making things worse, not better."

You are entitled to your opinion, but I believe things are getting worse because trans people can no longer be brushed aside and ignored. They are in all parts of life including mainstream media and their voices are being amplified by allies. Bigots are angry because trans people are no longer hiding and staying quiet. I feel like it's similar to the increased violence against black people during the civil rights movement during the 1960's. Often times with social equality movements things get worse before they get better, unfortunately. 

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 7/11/24 at 11:49am

binau said: "This is one of the few social issues where I actually feel the public discourse and attitudes are becoming more negative than positive over time. For the safety, wellbeing and sanity of trans people I think trans activists (who are not the same thing as trans people, or at least the trans people I know who just want to live their lives) might need to start re-thinking their approach. It seems to be making things worse, not better."

You kindly need to go blow it out your ass. What EXACTLY have trans activists done that is over the line that they should step back to take the heat off? To cede their own advancements so TERFs and other Bigots can have an easier time pushing them back into the closet and worse. Remember, JKR became a lightening rod in this discussion initially because she backed a woman whose contract work with a company was not extended because she REPEATEDLY refused to acknowledge their Trans co-worker with dignity and respect. So tell me, who is the problem here?

[MrsSallyAdams]

Posted: 7/11/24 at 12:24pm

People who abuse minorities want them silent. Activism is less likely to make things worse than to bring attention to the problems that are already there. This is true of every minority group. We've got a whole musical, Suffs, on Broadway right now outlining this historical pattern. 

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 7/11/24 at 1:31pm

TheatreFan4 said: "binau said: "This is one of the few social issues where I actually feel the public discourse and attitudes are becoming more negative than positive over time. For the safety, wellbeing and sanity of trans people I think trans activists (who are not the same thing as trans people, or at least the trans people I know who just want to live their lives) might need to start re-thinking their approach. It seems to be making things worse, not better."

You kindly need to go blow it out your ass. What EXACTLY have trans activists done that is over the line that they should step back to take the heat off? To cede their own advancements so TERFs and other Bigots can have an easier time pushing them back into the closet and worse. Remember, JKR became a lightening rod in this discussion initially because she backed a woman whose contract work with a company was not extended because she REPEATEDLY refused to acknowledge their Trans co-worker with dignity and respect. So tell me, who is the problem here?"

Right? That post reads kinda like, 'But, Ms. Turner, what did you do to make Ike want to hit you?'

[binau]

Posted: 7/11/24 at 3:38pm

Feel free to shoot the messenger while trans people continue to suffer needlessly. All I’ll say is if you get out of your bubbles, talk and listen to what the general public have to say about this issue you will find that the public are not buying many of the activist arguments, such as the role of trans women competing with biological women in sports, and this is fueling the fire of the general public and people like JK Rowling along with other issues. 

It’s grossly unfair that trans people who want to live their lives in peace, be happy, not be discriminated against in the workplace, and not have people hate them get caught in this crossfire between activists and transphobes who are turning the public offside. Also, many trans activists are not trans - so don’t try and bring the identity of the activists into the discussion. It’s not about who they are it’s what they are saying, how they are saying it and to whom they are saying it. 

The last thing I’ll say is that - and I say this as someone who used to be naively on my own moral high horse before I realised the world is more complicated - we have to be practical. The goal is not to fight to the death and self destruct ourselves and everyone around us to achieve the utopia society we want to live in. The goal is to take small steps to bring people on board and make them comfortable with people that are different and share different values. 

 

[Kad]

Posted: 7/11/24 at 3:56pm

If the author's note is any indication of what the quality of the play will be, then... oof.

Updated On: 7/11/24 at 03:56 PM

[Rentaholic2]

Posted: 7/11/24 at 4:05pm

binau said: "Feel free to shoot the messenger while trans people continue to suffer needlessly. All I’ll say is if you get out of your bubbles, talk and listen to what the general public have to say about this issue you will find that the public are not buying many of the activist arguments, such as the role of trans women competing with biological women in sports, and this is fueling the fire of the general public and people like JK Rowling along with other issues."

This is true.  Many (most?) people reject the definitive and unqualified maxim that "transwomen are women," not because they are hateful bigots who wish violence towards transwomen, but because they genuinely believe there are some areas of society where the distinction between transwomen and biological women matters.  The activist community can vehemently disagree with this viewpoint, but they fail to win anyone over because they refuse to even entertain the idea that a well-intentioned and open-minded person could hold this viewpoint. Instead, they label them hateful bigots and continue being blinded by their own sense of moral clarity.  I'm sure there are some advocates out there who are doing the hard work of effectively engaging on this issue, but they get drowned out by the people holding pitch forks.   

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 7/11/24 at 4:05pm

binau,

I say this with a great deal of love and affection.

Everything you are saying has been said about every civil rights movement. Every last one. If only the activists would pipe down, the majority will definitely allow those poor, meek women to vote...or those good and kindly negros to exist...or those respectable gays and lesbians who conform to gender norms to be out...or the not-too-slutty gays who may contact AIDS to live. 

I know you think we're in a bubble or on moral high horses, but you are not seeing how your comments fit into a century of advancements by marginalized groups. Every last thing you've said about trans people has been said about all of these other people. We absolutely know that piping down and being respectable will not win you any advancement in this society. 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 7/11/24 at 4:59pm

“Balance"? Between right and wrong?

Okay.

[BroadwayRox3588]

Posted: 7/11/24 at 6:16pm

Kad said: "If the author's note is any indication of what the quality of the play will be, then... oof."

I read through that multiple times, and still have no idea what he's talking about. It reminded me of a stream of consciousness activity I did in acting class in college.

[Kad]

Posted: 7/11/24 at 6:49pm

BroadwayRox3588 said: "Kad said: "If the author's note is any indication of what the quality of the play will be, then... oof."

I read through that multiple times, and still have no idea what he's talking about. It reminded me of a stream of consciousness activity I did in acting class in college."

Yeah, it's incredibly rambling. But what stuck out to me was how wishy-washy and noncommittal it was to any stance. He's writing a play that deliberately courts controversy, he felt the need to write an author's note... and he... didn't say much of anything of substance about the issue or his point of view on it?

A controversial title or topic is a tried-and-true way of getting your show noticed at a big festival and frankly it usually means the work itself has little else going for it. Considering Kaplan has done very little of note, this just feels like a ploy to get attention.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 7/11/24 at 6:59pm

There was a show on the same topic at last year’s Melbourne Fringe. “An Evening with JK", performed and written by trans activist Anna Piper Scott. That seemed better.

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 7/11/24 at 7:32pm

binau said: "Feel free to shoot the messenger while trans people continue to suffer needlessly. All I’ll say is if you get out of your bubbles, talk and listen to what the general public have to say about this issue you will find that the public are not buying many of the activist arguments, such as the role of trans women competing with biological women in sports, and this is fueling the fire of the general public and people like JK Rowling along with other issues.

It’s grossly unfair that trans people who want to live their lives in peace, be happy, not be discriminated against in the workplace, and not have people hate them get caught in this crossfire between activists and transphobes who are turning the public offside. Also, many trans activists are not trans - so don’t try and bring the identity of the activists into the discussion. It’s not about who they are it’s what they are saying, how they are saying it and to whom they are saying it.

The last thing I’ll say is that - and I say this as someone who used to be naively on my own moral high horse before I realised the world is more complicated - we have to be practical. The goal is not to fight to the death and self destruct ourselves and everyone around us to achieve the utopia society we want to live in. The goal is to take small steps to bring people on board and make them comfortable with people that are different and share differentvalues.

"

Well feel free to sit there in situations that don't affect while others suffer because YOU think Trans activists are asking for too much while governments continue to pass laws to outlaw any mention of a Queer identity in any level of education by an instructor. The reporting to parents of someone who a teacher THINKS is not Cis Gender regardless of how that child feels or if it's even safe for the teacher to tell these parents (be it true or not) who could retaliate against the child with abuse. Please spare me about Trans activists pushing TOO much. Every activist should be pushing TOO much because what they're going to accomplish will be short of that.

[verywellthensigh]

Posted: 7/11/24 at 7:40pm

Kad said: "If the author's note is any indication of what the quality of the play will be, then... oof."

Oh, dear.  The only discussion this will prompt is whether the playwright is more bat**** than JK Rowling.

[JasonC3]

Posted: 7/11/24 at 8:01pm

History repeatedly has demonstrated that:

• policy and societal change often requires persistent and/or disruptive activism;
• not all such activism produces the desired results (initially or ever) or gets a positive reception from members of various publics; and
• in some cases, a calibrated and targeted mix of both disruptive activism and behind-the-scenes or "within the system" diplomacy leads to desired changes.

Understanding and embracing these realities at the same time and without being dismissive of others, particularly (potential) allies, shouldn't be a big deal.

Updated On: 7/11/24 at 08:01 PM

[KevinKlawitter]

Posted: 8/21/24 at 4:04pm

mixed-negative response from critics and audiences