The Pirate Queen in NYC, compared to Chicago! **SPOILERS!!**

[StephanietheStar]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 8:11pm

Ok where to begin! Sadly, details are leaving my mind, especially since I was SO very familiar with the Pre-broadway version! So I apologize for any lack of detail in sections.

I saw the Pirate Queen 4 times in Chicago, starting very early in it's run there and ending a day or so before it left me...

I saw the show Thursday evening (March . The Hilton is a great theatre, the set is all the same from what I can tell.

There will totally be spoilers, I'll say it again, read at your own risk!

The Overture is the same, but now there is action happening during it. The Uilleann Pipes (I think) that are early in the overture are now "acted" out if you will by either the actual player or by one of the dancer ensemble members (I couldn't really tell), but they enter on stage mostly in shadow and "play" that part. The curtain then shows the illumination of Stephanie behind the wheel of the ship. The curtain comes up and Grania proudly looks out into the ocean in front of her. Tiernan comes out and "challenges" her to a sword fight, they fight (far more realistically than anything we saw in Chicago!)and when the play fighting is done they embrace and make-out.
In this new version it is much more obvious to the audience how much the two love each other. (in chicago, the curtain was down the entire overture, first hint of romance was during "here on this night").

Instead of "All Aboard the Coel Na Mara" we have "The Pirate Queen". Same song melodically. But not a lyric is the same! All the ensemble sings this, instead of just the male pirates. It is much stronger now! The name of the ship is now "The Pirate Queen", not the Coel Na mara.

Dubhdara (Grace's father, the chieftain of clan o'malley for those who don't know) is MUCH stricter and meaner to Grace. He thinks more along the lines of the others with "women being lesser" and such, and he tells her so. All the women are told to leave the ship to go to shore. This prompts "Woman", Steph's new song, which is a POWERHOUSE and absolutely beautiful.

The storm happens, similar to Chicago (but as you will notice not a single thing is EXACT).
"My Grace" is also similiar, very different lyrics as well.
"Here on this Night" also completely different lyrics. THere are also some changes as to who sings the higher part in the end. For example, one of the last parts has Hadley taking the part Steph usually signs, and I believe there was harmonically a slightly different ending as well. There are some of the original lyrics but the line still wouldn't be the same, either the tense has been changed or some sort of word in the sentence is different.

The first battle. The battle scenes are COMPLETELY different, and for the better. I never wanted to admit it, but in Chicago the battles were pretty laughable. NOW they are VERY good, very realistic, and very tight.

"The Waking of the Queen"--as far as I can tell, ALL of the queen's songs have been lowered (with the exception of "She Who Has All" and the part where she sings "this is your laaaaaaaaaaAAAast Chance!"). The new keys still sound great on Linda, and they are less annoying to listen to (granted I never hated the uber high singing). But the lower is great. Still very different lyrics!

"rah-rah, tip-top" they are singing this with less 'bounce' if you will, less stacatto. If that makes sense. I like it better. It still has the style of the original but less stylized. If that makes ANY sense!

The way Donal is brought into the picture is VERY different. The Clan O'Flaherty comes, and the two clans appear as if they are going to fight. But both Chieftains realize they need to come togehter during this time. The Chieftains pull aside and long story short "SO you have a daughter, I have son, if they get married and produce an heir we will have united our clans". Now "The Choice is Mine" is no longer a Stephanie only thing, it's Grace, Dubhdara, Chieftain O'Flaherty, Tiernan, Donal and Company. It's a group thing. I feel like though, this has lost some of the emotion we got near the end of the run in Chicago, where you see Grace making this difficult decision. I think that will come in later in this version, too, though!

"boys'll be Boys" different lyrics again, I really shouldn't even bother saying that anymore, it's ALL different!

Ok, I'm gonna skip ahead to details I want to share, more may come to me later!

ACT 2: They no longer have the little Irish guy and the English guy give each other dirty looks at the beginning of the Entr'Acte and then go to positions at the top of the masts. Good, that was dumb.
Grace now has her child BELOW decks, also good. The Pirates still bang their oars, which I'm still unsure of (the last thing a woman giving birth wants is some dumb guys making lots of noise!) but they no longer chant "Go Go GO Grania GO!"...thank goodness.

When the battle ensues, once again MUCH more realistically, she doesn't run out and fight. She drags her ass to the center of the stage, and Tiernan is about to be stabbed by a Englishman in the back while fighting another man, and she, from the ground, reaches up with her sword and slices his back, preventing Tiernan's death. MUCH better than her getting up and killing like, 8 people after childbirth.P.s. this is also cool becuase they added some dance technique to teh fighting, and now they do a cool pose-pose-freeze thing to the music that is happening, VERY cool.

I Dismiss You", also different lyrics...one I noticed instead of "You and all your ****..." it is "You and all your lies..." which therefore affects the following lines (rhyme-wise).

sidenote: the only reference to Grace's "balls" that is left is Bingham's "One day crush these balls of hers!" which seemed to be largely appreciated by the NYC audience :) They seem to have cleaned up some of the language in hte show, which is probably for the best.

Now that Donal is dismissed, it makes no sense that Grace and Tiernan stay apart any longer, so guess what? They don't!! "If I Said I Loved You" now brings them BACK together....

They have also added, that the Queen has a dilemma as well. She needs to produce an heir...so Bingham mentions that he'd be glad to help her out with that. SO the deal is made that if Lord Bingham can deliver Ireland to the Queen, she'll think about it. ahhh, plot thickens! lol.

"Let a Father Stand By His Son"-This is MUCH cooler! Now when they English attack with the help of Donal, they actually KILL some of the Irish. I believe about 3 of the clan members die. This makes it much more serious...

"Surrender". I was very worried that Hadley's song "Each in turn" was gone, I figured it had to be since with what has happened so far it would make NO sense to keep it. But it's still there! Just with different meaning. Instead of Tiernan singing about how he will gladly surrender his life for Grania's, and to her essentially, even though she is not physically there, he now sings it TO Bingham. He tells Bingham that he is there to save Grace's life so she can be with her child. It works wonderfully and we still get to hear Hadley sing that beautiful melody!

"She Who Has All" Almost completely different lyrics, same key (as far as I can tell, and I'm pretty good at that stuff, I have realitive pitch). Just beautiful.

"Terra Marique Potens" is the ship's motto if you will (I can't think of the correct term). Can not for the life of me remeber what it meant...I suck. But it was an insult to the Queen esentially. I believe it was something like "power on land and on the sea".

I'm not sure what else there is to say, other than the show is in EXCELLENT condition for so early in it's Broadway previews.

Congrats Pirate Queen, I think you'll do just fine :)



P.s. Sorry for the length, obsessive use of " " and I'm sure the large amounts of typos and bad grammar/spelling, etc. I tried :)


if there are any questions feel free to ask them!

[CapnHook]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 8:33pm

WOW - I didn't see it in Chicago, but it seems it must have been a complete train wreck in the mid west!

[MovieGuy1031]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 8:36pm

I asked about the "balls" references in another thread because, IMO, it was just inappropriately used at least 9 times in Chicago. I loved the show in Chicago, don't get me wrong, but DANG they needed to stop referring to her balls!

Great to see all the changes in one post.

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 8:36pm

Well, it's an audience pleaser and took in an impressive amount this week....

Nice to read (well, skim through) your thoughts. Seeing it on Saturday (appropriately, it's St. Pat's Day). Will be sure to post my opinion. No idea what to expect...I've heard it's a complete mixed bag of good and bad.

[CapnHook]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 8:38pm

Yankee - and that's just what you'll see. A mixed production of good and bad.

It's a beautifully bad show. The show is an oxymoron.

Updated On: 3/12/07 at 08:38 PM

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 8:43pm

Oy vey.

Onward, ho!

[ElphieDefiesGravity]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 8:46pm

Wow, Stephanie. I'm completely impressed that you not only remembered all of those changes, but took the time to write them out! Thanks! You made me laugh a couple times, too.

[chinkie azn jai]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 8:47pm

So they don't bang the oars after the Overture anymore?

[wishinguweresomehow]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 8:47pm

I am so happy to hear that it has changed since Chicago...cuz there was definitely more laughable moments then there should be.(even if it was historically accurate, it didnt work for a stage representation of the story.)

[ElphieDefiesGravity]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 8:48pm

Oh! Also, any comments on the ending of the show? Is it any better than in Chicago?

[kec]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 8:55pm

The banging of the oars occured after the prologue, after Grace and Tiernan's interlude on the ship.

[StephanietheStar]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 9:04pm

Yeah, the oar thing, which is now with irish step too is during the beginning of "the Pirate Queen" number (which was All Aboard the Coel Na Mara")...and it's waaaaay cooler as well. You see it on the Broadway.com video.

It used to just be bang bang bang bang bang. "Holy God! Bless this Clan!"

Now it's syncopated steps and hits with the oars for a while, and it's now "Holy God! Bless this ship!"

Oh that's something! THe song is now less exposition for teh WHOLE show (as it tried to be in CHicago) and now it is more of a song to the christening of their new ship...with a bit of exposition thrown in (as a opening number should be :)).


Thanks for the comments guys, I didn't realize I wrote THAT much! Thanks for bearing with me.

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 9:08pm

Feel free to chat about it in the BWW chat room....

[gustof777]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 9:16pm

steph are you seeing anything else in NYC? if so I love your reviews so don't leave us hanging! have a great trip!

[TechEverlasting]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 9:50pm

Steph, I enjoyed reading your impressions of the changes. How did you feel about "Because I Am a Wife/Woman That I Was" being cut? I never thought that song worked, but I know a lot of people loved it.

I still would like to see it as a bonus track on the cast album though.

Updated On: 3/12/07 at 09:50 PM

[courtnyj]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 9:56pm

Thank you for posting the changes. It's very interesting to read....I didn't see it in Chicago, and now I'm glad. The show isn't perfect here in New York, but it sounds like it's much better and that they are seriously working to improve it!
Updated On: 3/13/07 at 09:56 PM

[StephanietheStar]

Posted: 3/12/07 at 11:55pm

I ****ing LOVED "Because I am a Wife/The Woman that I am" (I saw both versions) so I was sad when I heard it was no longer in the show...I still am a bit, because I really did like the song, and I think Stephanie can always sing more, but it isn't missed in terms of plot. The scene just moves on after the "Happy Anniversary" to Donal...



The ending is pretty similar to Chicago. I don't ever think the ending was the problem, it was the story leading up to the ending which has obviously changed immensely.


I loved this show!



I just got back from my trip actually....

from Wednesday-Sunday I saw (in this order):
A Chorus Line, Les Mis, Pirate Queen, Spring Awakening, Company, Grey Gardens, The Apple Tree.

[Lady Italy]

Posted: 3/13/07 at 12:27am

Stephanie...

You sure had a very busy trip. Hope you are not too worn out.

[Muhlethaler]

Posted: 3/13/07 at 12:55am

Updated On: 8/31/11 at 12:55 AM

[SayitSomehow]

Posted: 3/13/07 at 1:28am

Okay HERE's a question for all those who have attended, that I'm surprised has not really been addressed. How does the score of the Pirate Queen compare to that of Martin Guerre?

It sounds like it is rather inferior to Les Miz and Miss Saigon but how about against B&S's "lesser" show?

[Popular]

Posted: 3/13/07 at 1:45am

Well, it's an audience pleaser and took in an impressive amount this week....

To add on to Yankeefan's statement - it took in $615,584, and was at 85% capacity for it's first week (link to source below). Not too shabby!

Stephanie - thanks for your review. Sounds like you had a great trip to NY!
Variety.com Box Office

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 3/13/07 at 1:52am

The Authors and Composers are taking Characters from Life and putting them in the frame of a Musical.
They are not representing them historically but what works for a Musical interpretation.
And it is obviously working with the audience,
Good for them.

and yes for a preview week and $25 tkts that is an impressive box office intake.

[gustof777]

Posted: 3/13/07 at 2:11am

oooh I can't wait to hear your thoughts on Spring! and all of the others lol

[msls777]

Posted: 3/13/07 at 4:31am

SayitSomehow,

In my opinion, it's hard to compare the Schönberg scores. That also said, it's hard to judge a score solely based on hearing it once or twice when you've heard the score of Les Miz and Miss Saigon hundreds (I'm assuming, give or take an order of magnitude) of times. Perhaps people should keep in mind that one of the London reviews of Les Miz when it opened stated that neither the tunes nor the score were memorable, save for what he referred to as the love songs between Marius and Cosette (that is, "A Heart Full Of Love"--and I can just about guarantee that when someone talks of Les Miz, that's not the first song that comes to their head).

I personally found the score of the Pirate Queen to be memorable, which I think contradicts many peoples' statements. Maybe it was because I listened to the castcom preview of a couple of lines of "Here On This Night"--so the catchy rhythm in the non-chorus section was implanted in my brain (it is pretty incredible, actually, and to hear it once and try to replicate it might be difficult). Personally, it was hard to forget tunes such as "I'll Be There," "Here On This Night," "A Day Beyond Belclare," "The Woman That I Am," the gorgeous sequence during the reunion of Tiernan and Grania, "I Dismiss You," "Boys'll be Boys" and even some "lesser" tunes such as "Rah-rah Tip-top."

People have even written reviews saying that the score was beautiful but unmemorable, and sure, that might be understandable for only watching a show once. Afterall, a person does not learn a song after hearing it once. That said, to state "unmemorable" as an absolute I believe is not reconcilable with the opinion that a score is beautiful. You undoubtedly must remember the so called "beautiful" moments of the score, but unless you have the IQ of Mozart, you're not going to be able to write down the whole score after hearing it once. I'm sure that a person who has not heard Les Miz before watching it and sees it live for the first time will certainly not remember many of the melodies (as the aforementioned London reviewer perhaps conveys).

That said, the Pirate Queen score is much more different than that of Les Miz or Miss Saigon. In my personal opinion, I'd take Les Miz or Miss Saigon over the Pirate Queen. But just because people don't immediately remember the tune to "I'll Be There" or any other music in the Pirate Queen does not mean such an anthemic tune will be "less recognized"--if you will. The score is beautiful, and once people have a soundtrack, I'm sure they'll remember quite a bit. Finally, just an extra point on this; I hope I do not offend Sondheim minimalists or any of the such, but when I came out of "Passion," I could barely remember any tune other than "Happiness" or "No One Has Ever Loved Me," and maybe one other. Yet, if you told me that you remembered many of the tunes from the show, yet could not grasp or remember the more melodically-tuned nature of Schönberg's Pirate Queen score, I would very much have my doubts--more in how attuned one was to the music than trying to judge a musical. Don't get me wrong--I love Sondheim, I'm just using one of his "interesting" and well-recieved scores as a comparison. Did you really remember the score of "Passion," or maybe even "ITW" immediately after you heard it live for the first time (i.e., without hearing a soundtrack)--was it memorable?


Now onto Martin Guerre. Personally, I believe Martin Guerre (the re-write) to be as beautiful in comparison to Les Miz and Miss Saigon. I'm only writing this because it's a bit relevant to the Pirate Queen.

How many of you have actually taken the time to listen/hear the REVISED (not the original) Martin Guerre US or UK Tour score? People trash Martin Guerre based on its London reception (coincidentally, it did beat "Passion" for the Laurence Olivier, if I recall correctly) though I admit the original London score (though great) was no where close to the incredible nature of the revised US Tour/UK Tour score. Seriously, it's a shame that songs like "Live With Somebody You Love" never became popular, because it is one of Schönberg's most hauntingly beautiful tunes. For the same reason that Martin Guerre's score is so negatively judged--that is, it hasn't been as "popularized" as Les Miz and Miss Saigon as a result of the terrible coincidence that no Broadway theatre was available to play it--perhaps people negatively judge the Pirate Queen score.

Martin Guerre's score is probably one of the most melodically prolific scores--especially in comparison to many scores on Broadway today, including the much praised Spring Awakening.

To not even listen to the whole score (if you haven't seen the show) is almost an injustice to the show itself--especially when you try to judge the score. Seriously, do you know the tune and incredible orchestrations of the part when Bertrande is alone with Arnaud, when she reveals her knowledge that he is not Martin? Can you recall perhaps the most beautiful climaxing notes that an antagonist sings before his downfall (when Guillame has Bertrande with a knife in his hand?) Schönberg stated that musically, that was his most favorite part of the show--and with reason. It's incredibly beautiful, and I doubt many people can recall it because they've only heard it once (or maybe not even at all) and perhaps disinterest or the sheer amazement of the climaxing story didn't automatically imprint it in their brain.


So if you've only heard a score once, how can you judge it? "Judging" a score requires time to truly understand it. At that point, you can separate the "crap" from "brilliance."

And obviously, we've had "brilliance" in the form of Les Miz and Miss Saigon for many years (21~22 for Les Miz, 17~18 for Miss Saigon). So really, to try to pass judgment on a score you've only heard once or a couple of times (The Pirate Queen, and Martin Guerre) in comparison to Les Miz and Miss Saigon's scores, which have become perhaps second nature to you, is pretty unfair. Give the Pirate Queen score a chance, and maybe you'll learn to appreciate it as much as Les Miz and the Miss Saigon score.

I can tell you in my personal opinion--Claude-Michel Schönberg's melodic fertility or sheer musical genius has not declined over the years. And personally--and I reiterate, PERSONALLY--I find Martin Guerre to be one of the most sweeping and beautiful scores. I'd sooner listen to Martin Guerre than most of the scores one could present to me. So maybe, give the Pirate Queen or Martin Guerre a chance before you judge it. If it had the exposure of Les Miz or Miss Saigon, who knows what standards we'd raise those scores to.

[TechEverlasting]

Posted: 3/13/07 at 8:42am

You make some interesting points, msls777. It's unfortunate that audiences don't have more chances to become familiar with scores before seeing shows. In the golden age of Broadway, show tunes were also pop tunes and audiences often had some familiarity with what they were hearing. I agree that it's bizarre for a critic to pronounce judgement on a score they've only heard once, but the producers of shows need to find a way to get their songs heard ahead of time. Pirate Queen has presented many hours of Castcom clips without revealing more than a few seconds of its score. I will say that many of us have found ways to listen to Pirate Queen's score repeatedly since it started in Chicago.

Is there any way that I can listen to the revised London version of Martin Guerre now? Is there some form of recording of it? I have the London Martin Guerre cast CD, and there are some beautiful moments on it. There's also the horrifying Overture, the Muzaky "Here Comes the Morning" and "I Will Make You Proud" which sounds like something Baby Bop would sing to Barney. (My personal opinions of course.)

"Woman", the new song for Pirate Queen is the strongest number in the show by far, and also the one song that seems to be most in the tradition of Les Mis and Miss Saigon. How I wish they would add an additional reprise of "Woman" at the end of Act 2, perhaps in place of the stupifyingly dull reprise of "Now is the Time" sung while the queens are behind the screen.

"I'll Be There", "If I Said I Loved You" "Let a Father Stand By His Son" and "Sail to the Stars" are also fine examples of Schonberg's rich melodic style.

I have listened to "My Grace" "She Who Has All" and "Here on This Night" repeatedly and they still sound like elevator music.

Updated On: 3/13/07 at 08:42 AM