Touchy licensing question -- need help — Page 2

One thing people are forgetting: The "Thriller" choreography is copyrighted. I remember hearing fairly recently about how the choreographer for the original music video still gets royalties off that song. Even if inserting a "Thriller" dance break to the existing Oz music could be considered artistic license, if they are recreating the "Thriller" choreography (which I'm sure they are, otherwise, what's the point of doing "Thriller"?) then they are violating SOMEONE'S copyright.

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To the people who stated that it's an artistic interpretation, that is a scapegoat for self indulgent members of this community.

When a show is licensed, you have NO artistic right to change anything about the show. You are LEGALLY BOUND to present the material as written. If you don't like it, you can get sued, and many people do. Unless direct permission is obtained from the rights holders, the authors, and sometimes the original production staff, you have to perform a show as licensed.

That also means no cutting of characters, music, scenes as well. The same goes for additions. Unless permission is directly granted.

Choreography, especially anything of Michael Jackson's, is copyrighted. In order to duplicate it, you have to pay royalties.

This high school is breaking many laws and they SHOULD be stopped. And as for people just getting a cease and desist, you should talk to some high schools in Southern California who've decided that Grease is better with the movie script and songs. Paramount slapped one with a $20,000.00 lawsuit about 8 years back and it folded their performing arts department.

If you want to do Wizard of Oz meets Michael Jackson, contact the Frank L. Baum estate and get the rights to re-adapt the story yourself.

I mean, I know there's an exception to copyright for parody, but this isn't parody from what I've gathered.

Of course, I'm in the tough position of apparently being the only person realizing this is bad. I don't want to be the whistle blower, because honestly, I don't trust that if I went to my principal he'd keep my name out of it. An anonymous note? That just seems really underhanded to me.

As I said, I don't get along with the director, so I can't go to her. I also feel terrible about doing something because the kids seem pretty excited about the whole thing.

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we actually had an "inspired by Thriller" dance break in the Jitterbug in our high school's production of the Wizard of Oz that I did 8 or so years ago.

Yes, the choreo is copyrighted, but if all you do is the scraggly arm thing to the actual dance music, I think it'll be fine. If they recreate the WHOLE dance though, completely different story.

"If they are doing the show the way I THINK they are, I just can't see how it's ethical."

"but this isn't parody from what I've gathered."

"As I said, I don't get along with the director, so I can't go to her."

I think these are some key sentences. From what I have inferred reading through this thread jasonf has not seen and has no first hand direct knowledge of what is happening. His information appears to be coming second hand from what he is hearing through his students. He has admitted that he doesn't even know which script they are using. If I was in this position and had that much concern I would find some way to actually see and hear for myself what is going on, rather than blowing the whistle on something that might not even be a case of a whistle that needs to be blown.

I agree with PalJoey, this sounds like somebody trying to stir up trouble for the sake of stirring up trouble.

I think Caborob had the most insightful post in this thread (which seemed to be conveniently ignored). At first glance inserting a Thriller reference into the Wizard of Oz seems tacky and artless, but there are moments where it could work, provided it is an "homage" - as was previously mentioned. Since the OP doesn't know which version of the show has been licensed and doesn't know the exact context in which it is being used, it really is just a matter of pointless panty-bunching. It sounds like you'll do yourself more harm than the perceived good by saying anything.

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That's exactly what Sue would ask.

Only it would be funny.

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Honestly, and Joe, I know you're being facetious, it couldn't be further from the truth. I have no interest in directing the big shows here because the school has a policy of including every single kid who tries out in the show. That means juggling something like 300 kids at once, and I really have little desire to do that. I do smaller shows on the "off-season" and am perfectly content with that. I've even told my principal multiple times (because he's asked me about it) that I won't do it while that stipulation is in place. I don't get along with the person who directs the shows, but I admire her for taking that on.

Artistic quality aside, I think the kids SHOULD have a drama program. Considering the political atmosphere in my state towards education, the last thing an already tenuous program needs is to suddenly receive a huge fine or injunction because the director did something illegal, either knowingly or not.

My point in posting here was to find out if what is being done is legal. I've since found out that they are planning a full five minute production number using Thriller. Clearly, without permission from the licensing company and the MJ estate, this is not legal. I don't know whether or not the director got the proper permission for these things, though I would suspect not.

I did go speak to my principal about it this morning. I said very clearly that the only reason I bring it up is I don't want the school exposed to possible fines or trouble. The last thing I want is for the kids not to get to do the show. However, yes, I do think that they SHOULD cut the Thriller number, even if the kids love it, if they don't have the proper permission. 1)It's a terrible lesson to teach the kids, that it's ok to just do that, 2)yeah, the odds are against the school getting in any trouble, but why take the chance?

He said he'd check into it and make sure all the correct permission was obtained. If not, then he'll have to deal with it. If so, then there's no harm done.

Maybe it didn't matter in the big picture, but maybe I saved the school a huge headache. I don't know, but if someone HAD been alerted to what was happening and I hadn't said anything, I'd feel awful.

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"I'd feel awful, just AWFUL!"

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I remember as a kid seeing another school's production of WoOz with all sorts of additions, including Toto falling in love with a dog in the Emerald City and singing "puppy love" to her. The school was right in west Los Angeles too.

jasonf, you were in a difficult position. It's one I've been in before, only I was actually working as a music director for the school making lots of unauthorized changes. And, yes, it was also a close enough to NYC school to have students directly connected to licensing companies. I went to the director herself to express my issues and when I was told "who cares," I went to the principal who made her care. Unsurprisingly, I wasn't contacted the next time she needed a music director, but I also know she hasn't made such severe unauthorized changes since then. I make it a point to see her school's shows to be sure.

I'm willing to overlook very minor changes--a tiny one or two line part changing from a he to a she or cutting some scene change music real short to speed up a show when the music isn't needed--but not throwing random stuff in. If you can't afford to do a show the way it's written, or aren't allowed to because the cast is too small, you need to do another show. There is no shortage of fun, interesting large ensemble musicals perfect for high schools. I'm loving the local area wave of Urinetown and All Shook Up productions; plenty of room for large ensembles plus many named characters with something fun to do onstage.

I think it's funny that you think just because someone has worked or works on Broadway, that automatically means they care about something inserted (or allegedly inserted) into a school production.

I think they're doing five performances.

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