Update on the Times Square Theatre

[Broadway Flash]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 12:25am

They’re looking for a new tenant before they finish turning it into a shopping mall. It’s disgraceful, and shame on the Shuberts and Nederlanders and ATG, Disney, RTC, and Jordan Roth for not acquiring the theatre and restoring it to its former glory.  It should be a Broadway theatre, not a clothing store. 

 

https://nypost.com/2023/01/22/construction-halts-at-times-square-theater-as-building-remains-tenant-less/amp/

Updated On: 1/23/23 at 12:25 AM

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 12:40am

Do we know why this space was never really considered for another Broadway house? Or has the goal of the owner always been to make it a retail space?

Not that I can blame anyone for not wanting to go near there in 2023. That stretch of 42nd Street is perhaps the worst area in the city, and traffic is miserable –– even with several storefronts empty.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 1:00am

If memory serves, the goal was always to make it like a mall. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 2:34am

Unfortunately, there is nothing there to "restore." 

[Impeach2017]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 6:28am

It has limitations as a potential theater.  An arts organization that sponsors theaters in the area approved the plan to incorporate historical details into the retail design, instead of tearing it down and erecting a skyscraper.  

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 7:26am

The only way to load into the theater is on 42nd street since the renovations to the Lyric in the 90s. And there’s no way the city would allow one of its busiest streets to be shut down to load into a theater therefore it is pretty much not usable. The fact that it has stayed empty so long is wild to me. Why not use that as the Broadway museum? Or turn it into a concert venue or something. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 11:28am

SouthernCakes said: "The only way to load into the theater is on 42nd street since the renovations to the Lyric in the 90s. And there’s no way the city would allow one of its busiest streets to be shut down to load into a theater therefore it is pretty much not usable. The fact that it has stayed empty so long is wild to me. Why not use that as the Broadway museum? Or turn it into a concert venue or something."

It all gets back to cost. The cost of rebuilding and bringing it to code is enormous and I seriously doubt anyone could make the numbers work for anything along those lines. I don't remember that the AA has 43rd St access but maybe I just don't remember.

[fashionguru_23]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 11:35am

HogansHero said: "I don't remember that the AA has 43rd St access but maybe I just don't remember."

I was thinking the same thing, yet I took a look at the street view on Google Maps, and it seems like the loading door, as well as emergency exits from the orchestra and upper levels is on 43rd Street. 42nd Street seems to only hold the theatre's entrance. 

Also, I saw there is now a Target on 42nd Street beside the American Airlines...was that a theatre at some point? I can't remember anymore where all the theatres were.

 

[MayAudraBlessYou2]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 12:07pm

As someone with personal knowledge of the project, it is not shameful to turn the Times Square Theatre into a shopping and dining area. If you understand the logistics, you would know that it is nearly impossible to turn this space into a Broadway house again.

The Times Square theater does NOT have any access to 43rd street. It's only entrances are on 42nd. This means all load ins/outs would have to occur on 42nd St, where a bus lane sits on that side of the street. The logistics of doing this are a nightmare for productions, and every load in/out would incur greater than average costs. The ORIGINAL version of this theater did have egress onto 43rd, but when the neighboring Lyric was created, the architects actually combined two former theaters into one and "landlocked" the Times Square Theater on 42nd St. (Regarding the American Airlines Theater: yes it does have 43rd access for load in/out).

But several elements of the theater are historically landmarked and will be preserved in the design. These include the façade of the Mezzanine and balcony boxes (similar to how the AMC Empire 25 retained those structures in their building, but these will have elements of the historic architecture still intact) and the Greek-style columns on the outside of the building (the plans for that level of the theater actually include a glass floor which will extend a few feet beyond these columns, allowing people to step out over the side walk and look down at the pedestrians below). Most exciting for those of us that work in the area: plans also include space for a rooftop restaurant and bar, which could be a much needed post/pre show food and beverage stop in an area that is really barren for such places (remember when Urbo tried to fill that void for a hot minute? Alas).

I promise you that returning this space to a Broadway house again was never in the cards. The few theater organizations that contacted the New 42 to inquire about the logistics of such a possibility years ago immediately balked at the price tag of such a venture. A retail/dining area with a modern look that retains the historical elements is truly, imo, the best outcome for this space. It could have been a generic skyscraper, and at several points almost was. It could have been "Broadway 4D" (which could have been cool, but how long would it have lasted really?) before that imploded. This is the best version of any plan for the venue.

[BroadwayNYC2]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 12:11pm

“t’s disgraceful, and shame on the Shuberts and Nederlanders and ATG, Disney, RTC, and Jordan Roth for not acquiring the theatre and restoring it to its former glory.  It should be a Broadway theatre, not a clothing store. ”

The Times Square theatre has been litigated to death here and it is well known it is impossible to turn back into functional use. You can cut the theatrics

[RippedMan]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 12:25pm

It does. Stage door is on 43.

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 12:32pm

I’ve wondered why they can’t lift it, like they’ve done with the palace. Make new retail space below it and create a space for a proper load out/in for the theatre itself. They could also build a hotel above it just like the palace. Why just keep the space empty?

[Broadway Flash]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 12:35pm

That's exactly right, the merger was the original sin.  The Lyric is way too big.  They must split the theatre back into two again, and fix all the theatres on 42nd.  That will fix the load in problem for the Times Square Theatre.  ATG should take this project on.  Garth Drabinsky has done serious damage to Broadway, it's unbelievable.  I just hope it's not irreparable.  

[Fosse76]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 12:52pm

Broadway Flash said: "That's exactly right, the merger was the original sin. The Lyric is way too big. They must split the theatre back into two again, and fix all the theatres on 42nd. That will fix the load in problem for the Times Square Theatre. ATG should take this project on. Garth Drabinsky has done serious damage to Broadway, it's unbelievable. I just hope it's not irreparable."

Drabinsky (via Livent) was basically building a "touring" house on Broadway.

[MayAudraBlessYou2]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 1:05pm

Broadway Flash...the Lyric will never be split in two again. ATG would have to first close Harry Potter, which isn't happening anytime soon. But even imagining a day when that show runs out of steam and shuts down, dividing up the space would be an utterly astronomical cost. And you can't just throw up a wall. You would have to demolish the interior of the Lyric and rebuild it from scratch. And all of this time and money just to get the Times Sqaure Theatre a 43rd St loading dock? No one will ever, ever do this. ATG would just search for another mega hit. And landlord New 42 gets a dollar of each ticket sold for their education programs, so they want it to be a huge house with a hit too at this point. 

Just enjoy the fact that the entire façade and other historic elements will be kept in place for us to marvel at. 

[MayAudraBlessYou2]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 1:07pm

Call_me_jorge said: "I’ve wondered why they can’t lift it, like they’ve done with the palace. Make new retail space below it and create a space for a proper load out/in for the theatre itself. They could also build a hotel above it just like the palace. Why just keep the space empty?"

Lifting the theater doesn't solve the problem because it would still be landlocked on 42nd street. Landlords have tried constantly to fill the space, but they've faced a series of bad luck with companies starting work and then pulling out.

[saxpower]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 1:09pm

Here is a link to the original layout of the Times Square (on the left) and the Apollo (now part of the Lyric)

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Times_Square_and_Apollo_theaters,_first_floor_plan.jpg

To help orient yourself, the 42nd street entrance to the Lyric is directly adjacent to ("below", from this perspective) the Times Square stage.  If you look at Google Streetview images, you can see the stagehouse from the Times Square at this location. Based on the the drawing it looks like the most direct way to load into the Times Square state was from 42nd street- Access to 43rd street would have required going through the Apollo- which is not practical for sets of any size.   I assume the orginal Lyric would have blocked any direct access to the Times Square stage,  It's likely telling that the theatre opened in 1920 and became a movie theatre 13 years later (1933). 

As to the combining of the Lyric and Apollo into one theatre, it may have been the best option at the time. Were the two theatres in a condition they could be saved? Could Broadway economics have supported two smaller-sized theatres (Both had original capacities of around 1200)?  At least this way there was another legitimate theatre on 42nd street and much of the original ornamentation, etc of the two theatres was preserved. 

 

 

 

[Dollypop]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 4:55pm

This theater would be the perfect venue for Beanie Feldstein's one-woman show called THE BEAN AND I.

[Broadway Flash]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 9:02pm

I think they should combine the Lyric with the Times Square Theatre to make it even bigger! yeah!! That would fix the problem.

[BroadwayNYC2]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 9:10pm

With each post you prove you have no idea how this works. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 9:18pm

Call_me_jorge said: "I’ve wondered why they can’t lift it, like they’ve done with the palace. Make new retail space below it and create a space for a proper load out/in for the theatre itself. They could also build a hotel above it just like the palace. Why just keep the space empty?"

One last time: there is nothing left to lift. 

[Broadway Flash]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 9:25pm

BroadwayNYC2 said: "With each post you prove you have no idea how this works."

What don't I know?  The theatres are right next to each other arent they?  If the ATG wanted to purchase the space and combine it with the Lyric, they could absolutely do that.

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 9:57pm

But why would anyone do that? I think, like the Liberty, it’s gone. I’m surprised nobody has moved into that space. But that whole stretch of 42nd is awful now. The whole thing needs a new idea. 

[Broadway Flash]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 10:11pm

So they can have a mega theatre and put big spectacles in there.  Wasn't that the original intent when they combined the theatres?

[BroadwayNYC2]

Posted: 1/23/23 at 10:17pm

They literally made the Lyric SMALLER because it was such a barn. This convo is pure nonsense