#26
Posted: 7/30/09 at 1:03am
With as many times as I've seen Billy Elliot...I dont think It'll be remembered that well in 50 years, due to lack of memorable songs.God I hope I'm wrong.
What musicals of the last 20 years will be considerred classics fifty years from now? — Page 2
#27
Posted: 7/30/09 at 1:09am
I think Jekyll & HYDE (depending on what you feel about the material...) will be in a way a "classic." It is STILL performed tons, has a more pop-ish score, and is set up with great characters and actually has a plot.
#28
Posted: 7/30/09 at 1:14am
^ Haha. Yeah, right.
There's a difference between things that will be classics and things that should be classics. Shows like Caroline, or Change or Grey Gardens absolutely should be but will they be? Probably not.
There's a difference between things that will be classics and things that should be classics. Shows like Caroline, or Change or Grey Gardens absolutely should be but will they be? Probably not.
"This table, he is over one hundred years old. If I could, I would take an old gramophone needle and run it along the surface of the wood. To hear the music of the voices. All that was said." - Doug Wright, I Am My Own Wife
#29
Posted: 7/30/09 at 1:21am
You really can't compare the impact RENT had with the impact HAIR had when it first hit the scene. Hair is Rent's Grand daddy, it was the first rock score to hit Broadway. Four of it's songs were in the top 10 on the pop charts. Many others were covered by numerous artists. It was in your face and confrontational. 40 years later it has mellowed some because the audiences have become more jaded and the politics have changed.In it's day however, changed the face of Broadway.
Yes, Rent has a huge fan following and introduced many young people to musical theatre if that is considered groundbreaking then so is WICKED. IMHO Rent benefited a great deal with the romanticized mythology which arose with Larsen's untimely death. I have often wondered if it would have lasted as long if he hadn't died.
Yes, Rent has a huge fan following and introduced many young people to musical theatre if that is considered groundbreaking then so is WICKED. IMHO Rent benefited a great deal with the romanticized mythology which arose with Larsen's untimely death. I have often wondered if it would have lasted as long if he hadn't died.
Those Blocked: SueStorm. N2N Nate. Good riddence to stupid! Rad-Z, shill begone!
#30
Posted: 7/30/09 at 1:25am
Sweeney Todd
#31
Posted: 7/30/09 at 1:29am
The Light in the Piazza
Caroline, or Change
Passion
Ragtime
Falsettos
Spring Awakening
Caroline, or Change
Passion
Ragtime
Falsettos
Spring Awakening
#32
Posted: 7/30/09 at 1:30am
Sweeney Todd
I really, really hope that was a joke.
I really, really hope that was a joke.
"This table, he is over one hundred years old. If I could, I would take an old gramophone needle and run it along the surface of the wood. To hear the music of the voices. All that was said." - Doug Wright, I Am My Own Wife
#33
Posted: 7/30/09 at 1:34am
Since theatre is a live medium, it will depend on which musicals are still being produced and performed around the country and around the world. Oklahoma!, South Pacific, Guys and Dolls, etc., are almost always in production somewhere. The length of the original run and the "impact" the show had matter very little.
For example, Life With Father is still the longest running non-musical play of all time on Broadway. But it's rarely produced today, so very few people have heard of it outside the theatre community.
I would look for the shows that are being produced regularly around the country today. In high schools, colleges, community and regional productions. That's a good indication, because it will keep the show in the public eye. Based on that, and a few guesses on more recent shows that haven't hit the non-Broadway circuits, I would say these have a good shot at being remembered 50 years from now:
The Secret Garden
Beauty and the Beast
Ragtime
The Full Monty
Thoroughly Modern Millie
Mamma Mia
Hairspray
Wicked
For example, Life With Father is still the longest running non-musical play of all time on Broadway. But it's rarely produced today, so very few people have heard of it outside the theatre community.
I would look for the shows that are being produced regularly around the country today. In high schools, colleges, community and regional productions. That's a good indication, because it will keep the show in the public eye. Based on that, and a few guesses on more recent shows that haven't hit the non-Broadway circuits, I would say these have a good shot at being remembered 50 years from now:
The Secret Garden
Beauty and the Beast
Ragtime
The Full Monty
Thoroughly Modern Millie
Mamma Mia
Hairspray
Wicked
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#34
Posted: 7/30/09 at 8:46am
I agree with those that say Rent will be thought as a "classic." (Of course, I think classic is a loaded term - I am still not a South Pacific fan and have been told it is a classic and therefore I should think it is amazing.) True, most tweens do not get the references in La Vie Boheme, but those same kids also don't get the references in Grease or a Chorus Line, two highly produced shows that one can argue had a big impact on musical theater.
Rent is in that weird place right now where it isn't aging well because the 90s haven't truly become period, I think. So it feels dated instead. In another ten years, dated could transition to period.
Different strokes for different folks, of course. If a show lives a good long life in regional and community theater, then good for them! Whether someone deems it classic or not, it is being produced and therefore viewed by a new generation of audience.
Rent is in that weird place right now where it isn't aging well because the 90s haven't truly become period, I think. So it feels dated instead. In another ten years, dated could transition to period.
Different strokes for different folks, of course. If a show lives a good long life in regional and community theater, then good for them! Whether someone deems it classic or not, it is being produced and therefore viewed by a new generation of audience.
#35
Posted: 7/30/09 at 8:47am
If it wasn't for Rent, we wouldn't have/had a lot of the shows we see now (i/e Spring Awakening, Wicked, Avenue Q, ext. Producers have been quoted in saying this) At its opening, it woke up a very stale Broadway scene and introduced theater to a whole new generation. More risks have been taken with the storylines and production and such. Of course everyone has their own opinions, but I feel sorry for the people who don't understand the impact Rent has had. Like in the previous post, it spoke to it's audience in an "in your face" position on topics not really discussed before.
What Hair did for it's generation, Rent did for this generation... that's why you'll see it considered a classic.
What Hair did for it's generation, Rent did for this generation... that's why you'll see it considered a classic.
"To The Stage!!!" - La Vie Boheme
Updated On: 7/30/09 at 08:47 AM
#36
Posted: 7/30/09 at 10:25am
I agree with TheEnchantedHunter. Obviously most musicals will be revived, and might be revered by more pedestrian folk, but the division in Broadway now is either esoteric intellectually-charged musicals (Caroline, or Change, Grey Gardens) or financial-friendly spectacle (Phantom, Wicked, etc.). It's hard to really say there's a show that combines these qualities well enough to withstand the years as a true classic.
Although I'm sure people will argue "Rent" does that. These people are often from Long Island.
Although I'm sure people will argue "Rent" does that. These people are often from Long Island.
Updated On: 7/30/09 at 10:25 AM
#37
Posted: 7/30/09 at 12:27pm
hmmmmmm. A Classic in terms of popularity and a desire by the masses to see it again and again over time. Is very different than the arguments I am reading here about the artistic merit of a piece. It seems to me that very few "artistic" pieces are revived successfully for financial reasons, most are a limited run by a set organization that probably has prepaid subscibers. Look at what has been revived on broadway recently in the last two years. What does middle america connect with, east coast versus west. To be a classic 50 years from now I would think it has to be more of a universal theme/story that everyone can relate to and have great music that people want ot hear over and over. With that said my choices would be
Beauty and The Beast
Wicked
Hairspray
The Producers
Secret Garden
and probably
Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
Shrek
Drowsey Chaperone
Curtains
Beauty and The Beast
Wicked
Hairspray
The Producers
Secret Garden
and probably
Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
Shrek
Drowsey Chaperone
Curtains
#38
Posted: 7/30/09 at 12:28pm
[RENT was]groundbreaking in terms of changing an entire generation's perception of Broadway. At a time when Broadway was pretty much crammed full of the British imports (Phantom, Les Miz, etc.) and beginning its Disneyfication, this scruffy little rock opera came through and talked TO young people.
In a way I can see that since a generation raised pretty far removed from the Broadway radar really got into the show (and the cast recording) but there have always been shows geared to the "youth" market: HAIR, GREASE, JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR. SO, for me, RENT appears to be just another in that line. I am glad it got so many people into looking at Broadway musicals as a contemporary art form.
I feel that RENT can be thanked at least partially for smaller, non-spectacle shows getting a chance again on Broadway.
True, but there have always been smaller off-beat shows. Cheap to run and maintain and with low start-up costs.
I think classic is a loaded term - I am still not a South Pacific fan and have been told it is a classic and therefore I should think it is amazing.
No, you just don't like the show. That's fine. There is no law that you have to like every classic.
I have seen a number of SOUTH PACIFIC productions over the years that were at best lackluster and these diminished the show's reputation. Suddenly a director comes along who freshens the show up with a dynamite cast willing to explore all the nuances of the script and suddenly we're seeing what audiences in 1949 first saw. Thanks in part to the revival SOUTH PACIFIC will likely be around again in another 50 years, the way operas by Verdi and Puccini are still performed.
But if your taste runs in another direction, then you just don't like the show.
In a way I can see that since a generation raised pretty far removed from the Broadway radar really got into the show (and the cast recording) but there have always been shows geared to the "youth" market: HAIR, GREASE, JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR. SO, for me, RENT appears to be just another in that line. I am glad it got so many people into looking at Broadway musicals as a contemporary art form.
I feel that RENT can be thanked at least partially for smaller, non-spectacle shows getting a chance again on Broadway.
True, but there have always been smaller off-beat shows. Cheap to run and maintain and with low start-up costs.
I think classic is a loaded term - I am still not a South Pacific fan and have been told it is a classic and therefore I should think it is amazing.
No, you just don't like the show. That's fine. There is no law that you have to like every classic.
I have seen a number of SOUTH PACIFIC productions over the years that were at best lackluster and these diminished the show's reputation. Suddenly a director comes along who freshens the show up with a dynamite cast willing to explore all the nuances of the script and suddenly we're seeing what audiences in 1949 first saw. Thanks in part to the revival SOUTH PACIFIC will likely be around again in another 50 years, the way operas by Verdi and Puccini are still performed.
But if your taste runs in another direction, then you just don't like the show.
Cast albums are NOT "soundtracks."
Live theatre does not use a "soundtrack." If it did, it wouldn't be live theatre!
I host a weekly one-hour radio program featuring cast album selections as well as songs by cabaret, jazz and theatre artists. The program, FRONT ROW CENTRE is heard Sundays 9 to 10 am and also Saturdays from 8 to 9 am (eastern times) on www.proudfm.com
#39
Posted: 7/30/09 at 12:34pm
Rent
Sunset Boulevard
The Producers
Wicked
Sunset Boulevard
The Producers
Wicked
#40
Posted: 7/30/09 at 12:46pm
I want Parade to be considered a classic.
Butters, go buy World of Warcraft, install it on your computer, and join the online sensation before we all murder you.
--Cartman: South Park
ATTENTION FANS: I will be played by James Barbour in the upcoming musical, "BroadwayWorld: The Musical."
#41
Posted: 7/30/09 at 12:56pm
Wow, it was Rent that opened the way for WICKED? How so? Maybe Rent is the vehicle that opened the way for Idina to get a role in Wicked but I don't follow the reasoning behind saying a low budget rock opera made way for a Mega budget commercial spectacle.
Those Blocked: SueStorm. N2N Nate. Good riddence to stupid! Rad-Z, shill begone!
#42
Posted: 7/30/09 at 12:59pm
Mattbrain, I was JUST about to post that.
When I see the phrase "the ____ estate", I imagine a vast mansion in the country full of monocled men and high-collared women receiving letters about productions across the country and doing spit-takes at whatever they contain.
-Kad
#43
Posted: 7/30/09 at 1:04pm
"When a lot of people think Broadway, they think Phantom."
True - whenever I think of what is WRONG with Broadway today, the first thing that comes to mind is Phantom.
True - whenever I think of what is WRONG with Broadway today, the first thing that comes to mind is Phantom.
#44
Posted: 7/30/09 at 1:30pm
Not to bang the RENT drum any more. . but wasn't RENT the first show to do the rush/lottery system for cheap seats?
I think that alone is the biggest change RENT ushered onto Broadway.
-Jacob.
I think that alone is the biggest change RENT ushered onto Broadway.
-Jacob.
#45
Posted: 7/30/09 at 1:31pm
My oppinion is RENT is highly overated and I dont see how RENT paved the way for Wicked at all.
RENT might have paved the way for smaller shows but Wicked is not of of them (big budget, big names, big theater)
I cant really say what will be considered a classic in 50 years because things will be so much diffrent then, in ways we cant even fathom now.
for 15-20 years though shows I can see being considered classic are...
Phantom of the Opera- I personally found it boring, althogh I do like some of the score. But people that think Broadway, think Phantom and I dont think that will ever change.
Wicked- I think even if the Wizard of Oz isint as popular (as in no more reruns or dvd reprints, etc) Wicked will still attract audiences both young and old and all because of something called Defying Graivty @_@
Avenue Q- I love Q so I might be biased but Q did for other shows what you all say RENT did.. Q a small show that I dont think even thought they would have a great 6 year run (Obviously with the lyric George bush is only for now, they didnt think the show would run THAT long). Q had a great story and score and was the underdog at the tonys that year beating out Wicked for best soundtrack and best musical. No one ever saw that coming. It showed us that just because a show had a star filled cast and a big budget that it wasnt gaurenteed to win.
These three are the only ones that come to mind right now, although im sure im just forgetting some
RENT might have paved the way for smaller shows but Wicked is not of of them (big budget, big names, big theater)
I cant really say what will be considered a classic in 50 years because things will be so much diffrent then, in ways we cant even fathom now.
for 15-20 years though shows I can see being considered classic are...
Phantom of the Opera- I personally found it boring, althogh I do like some of the score. But people that think Broadway, think Phantom and I dont think that will ever change.
Wicked- I think even if the Wizard of Oz isint as popular (as in no more reruns or dvd reprints, etc) Wicked will still attract audiences both young and old and all because of something called Defying Graivty @_@
Avenue Q- I love Q so I might be biased but Q did for other shows what you all say RENT did.. Q a small show that I dont think even thought they would have a great 6 year run (Obviously with the lyric George bush is only for now, they didnt think the show would run THAT long). Q had a great story and score and was the underdog at the tonys that year beating out Wicked for best soundtrack and best musical. No one ever saw that coming. It showed us that just because a show had a star filled cast and a big budget that it wasnt gaurenteed to win.
These three are the only ones that come to mind right now, although im sure im just forgetting some
"Everything in life, is only for now"
-Avenue Q
#46
Posted: 7/30/09 at 3:08pm
I think most people in this thread are having a hard time defining a classic in comparison to what they want and do not want to be a classic.
Because let's face it... there are certain shows that people do not like now that area already classics in their own way. Wicked. Phantom of the Opera. Rent. These are extremely popular shows (two of which are still running - with RENT on tour) and that popularity will not die in the next fifty years. All three of these shows will see a very, very healthy run in regional and community theatres. Their presence will still be around. They will be considered classics of this generation.
I think "classics" is also generally defined on the level of recognition by everybody in America. Brilliant shows like Caroline or Grey Gardens will never be recognized on the level of the latter three.
What also helps? Movies. I think that's generally a good method to judge whether a show COULD be held as a classic or not. On this note, I would also add Hairspray, Mamma Mia! (Though to go against my little theory, I do not believe Producers or Spring Awakening if that is made into a flick would be considered classics)
And lastly, I think Ragtime definitely has a good shot. It's epic. And awesome.
Because let's face it... there are certain shows that people do not like now that area already classics in their own way. Wicked. Phantom of the Opera. Rent. These are extremely popular shows (two of which are still running - with RENT on tour) and that popularity will not die in the next fifty years. All three of these shows will see a very, very healthy run in regional and community theatres. Their presence will still be around. They will be considered classics of this generation.
I think "classics" is also generally defined on the level of recognition by everybody in America. Brilliant shows like Caroline or Grey Gardens will never be recognized on the level of the latter three.
What also helps? Movies. I think that's generally a good method to judge whether a show COULD be held as a classic or not. On this note, I would also add Hairspray, Mamma Mia! (Though to go against my little theory, I do not believe Producers or Spring Awakening if that is made into a flick would be considered classics)
And lastly, I think Ragtime definitely has a good shot. It's epic. And awesome.
#47
Posted: 7/30/09 at 4:08pm
"Classic" can mean many things. There are musicals whose overwhelming popularity means they won't be forgotton. There are musicals whose popular and artistic achievement earn classic status. There are also musicals that fail to attract a large audience but earn classic status through the legacy of their cast recordings. However, some musicals are major popular successes but are still forgotten. Kismet, Redhead and Fiorello all won Tony's in the '50s and had signifcant runs but are mostly forgotten now.
"Popular" choices for '89-'09 (like it or not):
The Phantom of the Opera (ugh)
RENT
The Lion King (ugh)
The Producers (very traditional musical comedy)
Wicked
Artistic successes:
Titanic
Ragtime
The Light in the Piazza
Shows that could achieve cult status:
Caroline, or Change
Grey Gardens
A Catered Affair
Jukebox musicals will not become classics because when the boomers who grew up on those songs die away no one will be interested. That's why there are no Bing Crosby or Rudy Vallee jukebox musicals, folks.
"Lion King" made my list with reservations. Yes, it's a huge hit (so was "Beauty and the Beast") but it's the staging and puppetry that are unique, not the show. Besides, the Lloyd Webber and Disney spectaculars are of a certain type that may become passe. No one's doing operettas these days, which was the most popular musical theater form of the early 20th century.
"Popular" choices for '89-'09 (like it or not):
The Phantom of the Opera (ugh)
RENT
The Lion King (ugh)
The Producers (very traditional musical comedy)
Wicked
Artistic successes:
Titanic
Ragtime
The Light in the Piazza
Shows that could achieve cult status:
Caroline, or Change
Grey Gardens
A Catered Affair
Jukebox musicals will not become classics because when the boomers who grew up on those songs die away no one will be interested. That's why there are no Bing Crosby or Rudy Vallee jukebox musicals, folks.
"Lion King" made my list with reservations. Yes, it's a huge hit (so was "Beauty and the Beast") but it's the staging and puppetry that are unique, not the show. Besides, the Lloyd Webber and Disney spectaculars are of a certain type that may become passe. No one's doing operettas these days, which was the most popular musical theater form of the early 20th century.
#48
Posted: 7/30/09 at 5:01pm
I think "classics" is also generally defined on the level of recognition by everybody in America.
Well that is indeed part of the equation, but many shows with high name recognition hardly qualify as "classics." (GREASE is a key example.)
Definitions are tricky but a classic should also be a show that was universally hailed as either a watershed (OKLAHOMA!) or at least well made example of the genre (GUYS AND DOLLS.)
It helps if the show reached a broader audience through a best-selling cast album, or a faithful film or TV adaptation.
The length of the original run when placed in the context of its day is a factor. ANYTHING GOES ran 420 performances at the height of the depression, spun off at least 5 hit songs, and is a regarded as a classic. By the 1960s a run of 420 perfs would mean Broadway failure.
There are some shows that were huge hits in their day but were so topical that revivals are tricky, if not impossible. (ACLL ME MADAM is one example.)
So the matrix for assessing classic status should include the following:
1. Title recognition
2. Commercial success
3. Popularity beyond Broadway (Film, TV, records)
4. Relevance
Anything else?
Well that is indeed part of the equation, but many shows with high name recognition hardly qualify as "classics." (GREASE is a key example.)
Definitions are tricky but a classic should also be a show that was universally hailed as either a watershed (OKLAHOMA!) or at least well made example of the genre (GUYS AND DOLLS.)
It helps if the show reached a broader audience through a best-selling cast album, or a faithful film or TV adaptation.
The length of the original run when placed in the context of its day is a factor. ANYTHING GOES ran 420 performances at the height of the depression, spun off at least 5 hit songs, and is a regarded as a classic. By the 1960s a run of 420 perfs would mean Broadway failure.
There are some shows that were huge hits in their day but were so topical that revivals are tricky, if not impossible. (ACLL ME MADAM is one example.)
So the matrix for assessing classic status should include the following:
1. Title recognition
2. Commercial success
3. Popularity beyond Broadway (Film, TV, records)
4. Relevance
Anything else?
Cast albums are NOT "soundtracks."
Live theatre does not use a "soundtrack." If it did, it wouldn't be live theatre!
I host a weekly one-hour radio program featuring cast album selections as well as songs by cabaret, jazz and theatre artists. The program, FRONT ROW CENTRE is heard Sundays 9 to 10 am and also Saturdays from 8 to 9 am (eastern times) on www.proudfm.com
#49
Posted: 7/30/09 at 5:27pm
I'd say THE LIGHT IN THE PIAZZA, WICKED & RENT.
#50
Posted: 7/30/09 at 6:47pm
I doubt it ever will, but I hope Passion becomes a classic. A HD re-release of the TV recording+a very successful revival could do it.
Give me claws and a hunch, just away from this bunch.
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