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Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

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#1

Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 2:01pm

On the DVD, Ben Vereen (The Leading Player) gets the final bow... but I'm guessing thas because he was a big name, and had won a Tony for the role he originated. William Katt was not as big of a name...

So in a case of a regional production or something, who should get the final bow? the Leading Player or Pippin?
#2

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 2:25pm

I would go with The Leading Player.
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg." -- Thomas Jefferson
#3

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 2:34pm

Pippin should get the final bow. The show is called "Pippin: His Life & Times"... not "Leading Player: His Life & Times". Pippin is the title role. Mame gets the final bow in "Mame"... Dolly gets it in "Hello, Dolly". Its only obvious that Pippin gets the final bow.
#4

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 2:34pm

Yeah, I'm pretty sure The Leading Player got the final bow in the Deaf West production. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong, though.)
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
#7

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 2:46pm

I don't think being the title character necessarily means you should get the final bow. Louise/Gypsy doesn't get the final bow, and Sweeney Todd doesn't always have the final bow.
When I see the phrase "the ____ estate", I imagine a vast mansion in the country full of monocled men and high-collared women receiving letters about productions across the country and doing spit-takes at whatever they contain. -Kad
#8

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 2:52pm

Plenty of title characters don't get the final bow: the Drowsy Chaperone, Godot, the Fiddler on the Roof, etc.
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg." -- Thomas Jefferson
#9

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 2:55pm

The Fiddler in FIDDLER ON THE ROOF doesn't get the final bow.

The Drowsy Chaperone in THE DROWSY CHAPERONE doesn't get the final bow.

The Wizard in THE WIZ nor THE WIZARD OF OZ doesn't get the final bow.

...you get the idea.
"The Spectacle has, indeed, an emotional attraction of its own, but, of all the parts, it is the least artistic, and connected least with the art of poetry. For the power of Tragedy, we may be sure, is felt even apart from representation and actors. Besides, the production of spectacular effects depends more on the art of the stage machinist than on that of the poet."
--Aristotle
#10

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 2:56pm

If Pippin has more stage time, he should get the final bow.
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#11

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 2:58pm

The difference though is that Pippin has more stage time and solo songs than the Leading Player. Pippin really should get the final bow.
#13

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 3:13pm

When I directed it, we didn't have bows, but if we had, I was going to have the Leading Player bring the cast forward, then single out the leads to solo bows, ending with Pippin. Pippin would then point to the leading player who would modestly do a "Me? Oh no, thank you" schtick, then finally take a quick bow before indicating a company bow.
#14

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 3:16pm

madbrain, I think it'd be fabulous if Godot got the final bow.
When I see the phrase "the ____ estate", I imagine a vast mansion in the country full of monocled men and high-collared women receiving letters about productions across the country and doing spit-takes at whatever they contain. -Kad
#15

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 3:42pm

Eartha Kitt got the final bow in Cinderella and she played the Fairy Godmother. She was on stage for all of twenty minutes tops. Celebrity trumps stage time.
#16

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 3:50pm

"Celebrity trumps stage time."

While that's certainly true, I don't think that's part of the equation here. I think the question is based on the role, not the actor. Anyway, Chita Rivera was also in the DVD, and she's a bigger star than Vereen.
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg." -- Thomas Jefferson
#17

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 4:42pm

Chita was not then, nor is now, a bigger star than Vereen. The role of The Leading Player was essentially written and tailored specifically for Vereen and it is undoubtedly the lead role in the show. Are you kidding me?

And, if we're going to play the "most dialogue = last bow" game, Mr. Darling in PETER PAN technically has the most spoken lines in the show, yet he would never get first bow, unless the actor also plays Captain Hook and even THEN Peter Pan gets the last bow almost always (or Sandy).

Stars trump amount of material, sure, but OBVIOUSNESS trumps all.

Frankly, I think it would even be slightly bizarre for Pippin to have the last bow given the amount of stage time and interaction with the audience that the Leading Player has over the course of the evening.

I suppose if you had a HUGE, Elizabeth Taylor level star of a certain age playing Berthe she would perhaps get the last bow led on BY the Leading Player, but that's pretty much the only exception I could ever foresee.

P
#18

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 4:49pm

Bob Fosse.

Slightly OT: Isn't PIPPIN the model for the show-within-the-film in ALL THAT JAZZ? I.e. a pleasant if mediocre piece of material given a Fosse jolt of theatricality (and pronounced sexuality)?
"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling
#19

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 5:54pm

I saw a community theater production of HELLO, DOLLY! where Dolly SHOULD have taken her bow with the chorus.
"Long live God!" (GODSPELL)
#20

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 6:06pm

Auggie: It's a little PIPPIN and a little CHICAGO. Fosse sort of sexed-up both shows, "Razzle Dazzle" as an orgy on the courthouse steps (toned down for Bway) and "With You" as an orgy of epic proportions (toned down for the video). In much the same way, the composer/lyricist is meant to be an amalgamation of the worst traits of Fred Ebb and Stephen Schwartz. Apparently, it's more Ebb than Schwartz (but the musical style is very Schwartz-70s) and the show is more CHICAGO than PIPPIN, but I'm not so sure.

One thing is certain: John Lithgow plays Hal Prince, glasses on the forehead and all.

P
#22

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 8:43pm

Nobody.

Without the Fosse choreography the show is garbage, just another bland 60's-70's score by stephen schmaltz. The show should disappear.
#23

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/12/09 at 11:12pm

No-one. The whole point is that everyone walks out leaving the "players" playing Pippin, Catherine, and Theo left on stage.
#24

re: Who should get the final bow in PIPPIN?

Posted: 10/13/09 at 12:41am

The licensed version from MTI has a new ending. Theo starts singing "Corner of the Sky" and the Leading Player and other players come back onstage to signify that the cycle will repeat.

~Steven

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