Why are tickets getting so expensive - Page 2

[HogansHero]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 2:07pm

TotallyEffed said: "making it damn near impossible for the average person to afford to see anything."

This is the fundamental flaw in your reasoning. The average person with an interest in seeing theatre can absolutely see a ton, on and off-Broadway (and beyond). Can they see Hugh Jackman? Perhaps not, but that's not really much of a loss. 

I keep my eye on a friend's theatre-interested son who moved to the city after college, and makes not-very-much money. He manages to see a rich array of theatre at all levels so, as I said above, let's cool the histrionics. 

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 2:12pm

I’m talking about people who see theatre regularly, like many people on this board. And again, this is all just my opinion. I think the prices for a lot of shows are getting outrageous. And that doesn’t mean that there aren’t other shows in the city that are more affordable.

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 2:28pm

While yes, I’m disappointed that some shows coming to Broadway are more than I can afford-that’s Broadway. As others have said-supply and demand. What’s your solution? What do you propose that would make sense for everyone involved in Broadway productions? This is very entitled, not to mention you’re completely ignoring places like off-Broadway, off-off, etc. where you can see amazing productions for less than $100. I’ve gotten tickets for $20. $40. I’ve explored more than Broadway. It’s not the be-all, and all. Broaden your theatrical horizons and stop being so entitled. 
 

there are always-always going to be things that are very expensive. Travel for example. Does that mean they should start lowering the prices? How exactly would that work? You can complain all you want, but think about alternatives. Otherwise you’ll just make yourself even more upset and that’s not productive. 

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 2:33pm

KJisgroovy said: "It’s always been the center of theater in America but only recently did the prices become completely inaccessible. I think the acceptance of its inaccessibility is a mistake. Certainly there have always been shows and seats that have been inaccessible but the standard price is practically out of reach for a middle class person to attend regularly. There won’t be an audience left.


Ultimately you’re right. Producers will charge what they can. I just worry the long term effects will be pretty damaging. Hopefully the market will adjust before that happens."

Agreed. This thread has highlighted a couple ways the current model is flawed. I understand charging what you can for Lea Michele's first shows (however long demand holds out). But posts are describing the ways you need to be well-informed or flexible to get access to affordable tickets for every show (even if it's not a hit/hotly anticipated). It seems like a weird choice to rely on gullible fools (or those who have no choice like people from out of town buying in advance) upfront and potentially play to partially filled theaters rather than charge fair prices for all the seats to begin with. It suggests you don't think demand is high enough for your show. There can absolutely be premium tickets, but the balcony/mezz prices are getting ridiculous. And I don't think every show adjusts to demand. Have we already forgotten Tina?

[veronicamae]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 2:35pm

TotallyEffed said: "Meanwhile, Jordan Roth is prancing around the city in couture. I understand the costs of running a commercial show, but I think it’s a shame that greedy producers are charging obscene ticket prices and pocketing the money, making it damn near impossible for the average person to afford to see anything. I want people of all classes and colors and ages to be able to access the theatre."

Jordan Roth isn't rich because he's a greedy producer. He's rich because his father made millions upon millions of dollars on NYC real estate. He already had money, which allowed him to buy 5 theaters and become a producer (like his mother).

And to Hogan's point - it is definitely possible to see the MANY Broadway shows without needing to be rich yourself. Very rarely do I spend more than $60 to see any Broadway show, thanks to TDF, rushes, lotteries, and other discounts. I saw TMM with Hugh & Sutton in March for $99, which was a splurge for me. Maybe you can't see the hottest ticket in town when it is the hottest ticket in town, but affordable (how you define that might be why we're all debating here) tickets are available for most shows at one time or another.

I am indeed curious what starting price would be considered acceptable. That's not a flippant statement - genuinely, what price range would be acceptable for a Broadway show?

And I promise I'm not yelling (if I'm the person referred to as doing so earlier), or even picking on TotallyEffed. I'm discussing the topic of the thread; perhaps I'm just exhausted by it, and I apologize if it comes across as "yelling."

[jagman1062]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 2:45pm

Speaking from personal experience, and I'm sure the experience of others, a problem is that the rising cost of tickets has outpaced the rise in my own income. There was a time when I saw every show that opened on Broadway and many shows Off-Broadway, many times taking advantage of twofers (remember those?) and discounts.. Unfortunately, I can't sustain that level of expense any longer. I'm now much more selective in the shows I see even at discounted prices. Although, I have admittedly paid more than I would have liked for some tickets because I really wanted to see the show. As a member of the bridge and tunnel crowd, I am also mindful of the costs of transportation (e.g., tolls, parking) and dinner. I understand why ticket prices have become so expensive, and I seem to recall that ticket pricing became more complex when The Producers opened 21 years ago, but for many people, our consumption of theater has been affected more by own inability to meet rising costs. I realize some prices are absurdly high, but it's reasonable to expect producers to want to cover costs and try to turn a profit. I still get to see theater, but no as much as I used to enjoy.

[JBroadway]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 2:47pm

Notice that this conversation always comes up around the time of some particularly popular juggernaut show charging extreme premiums. Consequently, people conflate "this show isn't accessible" with "Broadway isn't accessible" with "theatre isn't accessible."

Hopefully, we can keep things in perspective enough to remember that Theatre ≠ Broadway ≠ The Musica Man (or whatever show). A regular theatregoer who wants to see *A* Broadway show, can do so for $50-$60 without looking too hard; or even $40 if they know where to look, and aren't picky about the show and the seats.

So, when we come to debates like this, I think it's in everyone's best interest to stay on the same page; if you're talking about the producers of Music Man, or Hamilton - or whatever individual show, or small handful of shows - then say that. Because saying "theatre is inaccessible" will be met with a flood of counterexamples.

Because I think there IS a case to be made that some producers display characteristics of greed in their pricing - and that's still a shame, even if (and perhaps precisely BECAUSE) it can be explained away with "that's how capitalism works"

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 2:55pm

Because saying "theatre is inaccessible" will be met with a flood of counterexamples.

Correct. And even if someone is talking about the "people on this board" and people "who go the theater often", who cares? Should they be offered some huge discount program because they chose to go to the theater weekly with their own money? So sorry you can't be third row center for The Music Man for 25 bux but.....GFTO. 

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 3:02pm

veronicamae said: "And to Hogan's point - it is definitely possible to see the MANY Broadway shows without needing to be rich yourself. Very rarely do I spend more than $60 to see any Broadway show, thanks to TDF, rushes, lotteries, and other discounts."

What about a family of four? I haven't looked lately because I'm not interested in those shows but what is the pricing like for Aladdin, Lion King, Wicked, Cursed Child, DEH, etc.? If someone's one trip a year driving in from the suburbs or flying in from another state or country is being inaccessible, that's a problem. And the touring/regional tickets aren't always much better.

I feel like rush has gone from a bonus for some people to a justification for exorbitant pricing because you can point to a handful of reasonably priced tickets.

[JBroadway]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 3:12pm

A family of 4 who gets priced out at the New Amsterdam box office, could walk across the street to the New Vic and get tix for the entire family, all for the cost of a single Aladdin ticket. And they’d probably see a show that’s arguable more artistically enriching, plus they’d still get the experience of sitting in a real-life Broadway theatre (architecturally speaking).

The problem is, they think they don’t want that, because like most thearegoers (even among the die-hard fans) they’ve been led to believe that if it’s not Broadway, and if it’s not something they’ve heard of it, it’s not worth their time. 

Updated On: 9/11/22 at 03:12 PM

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 3:20pm

JBroadway said: "A family of 4 who gets priced out at the New Amsterdam box office, could walk across the street to the New Vic and get tix for the entire family, all for the cost of a single Aladdin ticket. And they’d see a show that’s arguable more artistically enriching, plus they’d still get the experience of sitting in a real-life Broadway theatre (architecturally speaking).

The problem is, they think they don’t want that, because like most thearegoers (even among the die-hard fans) they’ve been led to believe that if it’s not Broadway, and if it’s not something they’ve heard of it, it’s not worth their time."

I completely, 100% agree. Thank you JBroadway for this. You’re so right. And I’ve seen so many amazing productions places that are not Broadway. People have got to open their minds. 

[veronicamae]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 3:29pm

jagman1062 said: "Speaking from personal experience, and I'm sure the experience of others, a problem is that the rising cost of tickets has outpaced the rise in my own income. There was a time when I saw every show that opened on Broadway and many shows Off-Broadway, many times taking advantage of twofers (remember those?) and discounts.. Unfortunately, I can't sustain that level of expense any longer. I'm now much more selective in the shows I see even at discounted prices. Although, I have admittedly paid more than I would have liked for some tickets because I really wanted to see the show. As a member of the bridge and tunnel crowd, I am also mindful of the costs of transportation (e.g., tolls, parking) and dinner. I understand why ticket prices have become so expensive, and I seem to recall that ticket pricing became more complex when The Producers opened 21 years ago, but for many people, our consumption of theater has been affected more by own inability to meet rising costs. I realize some prices are absurdly high, but it's reasonable to expect producers to want to cover costs and try to turn a profit. I still get to see theater, but no as much as I used to enjoy."

This is a great contribution.

The problem isn't so much the ticket prices themselves, which have increased along with all other things in the country (world?) over the years. The real problem is that our wages haven't kept pace with our expenses (federal $7.25 minimum wage??), whether they're luxury items-defined as things we want but do not need- or not. See also: the price of gas, milk, meat, and many many other things.

Right now, 4 tickets to The Lion King this Saturday night are $500, including fees (they are cheaper on different dates). Dear Evan Hansen's prices were lower/discounted for quite a while until they got a star in the show and demand increased. Additionally, all shows referenced are participating in Broadway Week, which lets you buy 2-for-1 tickets from September 6-September 25 (making those same 4 Lion King tickets $250).

Updated On: 9/11/22 at 03:29 PM

[perfectpenguin]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 3:30pm

Not to blame covid but using it as a timeline reference. Precovid, my train or bus was $45-$50 round trip and I could afford to travel to NYC 2-4 times a month from Philly suburbs for shows. Now, my bus is $65 and train is over $100 round trip and I can't afford that anymore. Instead of seeing a show just because, I'm being more selective and splurging on the shows I really want to see and only going once a month. I'm also no longer repeating shows either. My next three shows are Death of a Salesman in October, The Piano Lesson in November, and The Collaboration in December. The Collaboration's presale is tomorrow and I'll splurge on a orchestra seat. After these three shows, I won't be in the city until April 2023. 

[Jarethan]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 5:10pm

KJisgroovy said: "For the last ten years or so, since I entered my 30s, I've gone to New York 2-4 times year and seen 5-10 shows a visit. It's the thing I do. The thing I spend my money on. It's always cost a lot but it's always felt worth it. I try to see everything and take risks on stuff I might not love... if I've got an open slot, I'll fill it with whatever.

We're planning a trip this December to see A Man of No Importance and Merrily We Roll Along. There's lots of other things we want to see too... but for the first time it's all so outrageously expensive. Into the Woods, & Juliet, Leopoldstadt (and I'm sure others) are all well over 200$ for any reasonable seat. I can sort of understand and justify that price with a major celebrity or a major spectacle but for an average starting ticket... It's just too much. I understand supply and demand and I don't really think I fault producers (or anybody else) for charging folks what they'll pay. I guess I'm just saying, as a lifelong Broadway nutcase, at these prices I just don't think it's worth it anymore."

Of course, everyone wants to sit in great seats, including me.  When I think of how much /(as a percent) prices have gone up since I started attending the theatre almost 60 years ago, I am shocked.  I also remember that some of the greatest experiences that I have had in the theatre were from cheap seats (not necessarily cheap anymore, but normally considerably cheaper).  The first time I saw Hello, Dolly, it was from the last row of the second balcony; and, while I would have loved to be closer, I couldn't afford to do so.  I could list the many shows for which this was the case; long ago, I concluded that a great show is great no matter where you sit (although it is going to be more enjoyable, the better the seat) and a lousy show is still going to be lousy, no matter where you sit.  I am not sure it is any better in expensive seats than it is in cheap seats...it's just not good, e.g., I saw Tootsie from great seats, and thought it was overall a piece of crap, even though I liked the book...it wouldn't have mattered where I sat...every time someone began to sing, I cringed.

My point: don't forego the shows that you can't pay a lot of money for.  Get cheap seats rather than foregoing the opportunity.  If you are going to like the show from great seats, you will still like it from less great seats (except, of course, extreme side seats at the Ambassador.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 5:34pm

Shall I rub salt into the wound?  I have two ticket stubs in front of me:  Opening night of HELLO, DOLLY! (Jan 16th, 1964) 6th Row Center. $9.90 each

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 6:00pm

I'm not saying that nothing that plays the New Victory (or New World Stages, or Theater Row, etc.) has artistic merit, but it's hard to compare a lot of those productions to a big budget, critically-acclaimed Broadway show. I don't think the point is just to be in any theater. You want to see a good show regardless of the venue or ticket price.

I wouldn't equate Aladdin to the Gazillion Bubble Show or say seeing that weird The Little Prince adaptation was the same as the new Sesame Street musical. 

[dan94]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 6:30pm

VintageSnarker said: I feel like rush has gone from a bonus for some people to a justification for exorbitant pricing because you can point to a handful of reasonably priced tickets."

Exactly this. We seem to have 2 factions here: out of towners and New Yorkers. The out of towners are saying they can't afford to come in to the city as much and can't spend money traveling on the off chance that a rush ticket or lotto ticket will be available. The New Yorkers seem to be pointing to the rush/lotto/TDF tickets as evidence that theatre is affordable.

And there is reason to harp on Music Man. No, you shouldn't expect to get in to Music Man for cheap. But when something is that far "off center" from typical pricing, it moves the goal posts. I've seen several comments essentially saying Music Man is an anomaly and cannot be used in this convo.

The Producers was an anomaly when they became the first show to sell Premium Tickets. People were assured "this is specific to The Producers and won't be a trend." Find a show today that doesn't sell premium tickets.

Standing Room at Music Man is $76. While that price is outrageous, this one ticket for this one show in and of itself isn't a problem. But it becomes a problem when 2 years down the line a new show wants to "prove they are the next Music Man" by pricing their tickets similarly.

And it doesn't just come down to economics. The less shows people can afford to see, the less they experiment. The less there is an audience willing to take a chance on an unknown property, the more homogenized the industry becomes.

[nativenewyorker2]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 6:53pm

The problem is off Broadway theaters often charge the same if not more than some Broadway shows. Think of the PLAY THAT GOES WRONG at new world stages…I believe the cheapest ticket is $70-80. 

[East Village]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 7:02pm

Jujamcyn and others getting in bed with the ticket scalpers like Seat Geek has only exacerbated it.

Make no mistake about it, Seat Geek can produce a digital ticket that can not be resold — and can only be redeemed by the original purchaser.

But theater owners have to insist on it instead of joining in on gouging their audiences 

[nativenewyorker2]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 7:08pm

Another example would be paying $80 to see Regina comet 20 blocks off Broadway at union square… which after seeing it I should’ve filed a report for theft of money and time 🤣

[HogansHero]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 8:07pm

dan94 said: "The less shows people can afford to see, the less they experiment. The less there is an audience willing to take a chance on an unknown property, the more homogenized the industry becomes."

A few problems with this. First, the place for experimentation is off Broadway (in the broad not necessarily technical sense) and we have a ton of experimentation going on. Second, Broadway is where that experimentation's successes can be showcased. Third, the idea that we don't have the product of experimentation on Broadway is to bury one's head in the sand. In a year in which ASL was crowned and there were many other "experimental" shows (some of which arrived sans trial runs in advance) found there way to Broadway, it's hard to fathom what your point might be. I really believe you need to adjust the focus of your consideration. 

[Wick3]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 8:24pm

Most if not all Broadway shows have some rush option, making tickets affordable.

Also, the cost of Covid testing at Mobile Health is not cheap. My understanding is actors and theater staff have to do this at least twice a week.

Since ticket refunds are not allowed anymore, my suggestion is to buy your theater tickets once you’re in the city or as it gets closer. I was following KPOP for the longest time and couldn’t find any discount tix and then one day a few weeks ago they had that $19 special so I pounced on it and was able to get one!

I do think we’ll most likely see a number of new shows on TKTS or TDF.

There are a few shows this season that I’d definitely get tickets for in advance and pay full price, like for NYTW’s Merrily We Roll Along.

[ManOfLaMuncha]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 10:03pm

Dollypop said: "Shall I rub salt into the wound? I have two ticket stubs in front of me: Opening night of HELLO, DOLLY! (Jan 16th, 1964) 6th Row Center. $9.90 each"

 

When I was a teen it cost $6 for Orchestra seat at non musical...$7.50-$9.00 for Orchestra at a musical.

If I was bringing my mom (who was visually impaired), I would always get front row seats.

I remember when prices got jacked up the first time, was after a big musician's strike.  There was also a strike with the Usherette ladies.

At the time I was making a very low wage, and sometimes a snack at the pretzel cart was what we could afford lol.  That's where I learned to put mustard on hot pretzels

 

[dan94]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 10:37pm

HogansHero said: A few problems with this. First, the place for experimentation is off Broadway (in the broad not necessarily technical sense) and we have a ton of experimentation going on. Second, Broadway is where that experimentation's successes can be showcased. Third, the idea that we don't have the product of experimentation on Broadway is to bury one's head in the sand. In a year in which ASL was crowned and there were many other "experimental" shows (some of which arrived sans trial runs in advance) found there way to Broadway, it's hard to fathom what your point might be. I really believe you need to adjust the focus of your consideration."

Where did I say experimentation wasn't happening on Broadway? I said as audiences are not able to see as much they are taking less chances with their money. Glad you brought up A Strange Loop - what do you think of their current grosses? If they don't come close to recouping do you think we will get other shows of ASL's ilk produced on Broadway in the near future?

I'm sorry for not being clear, you read something into my post I did not realize was there and never intended to say.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 9/11/22 at 11:08pm

Look at the past Best Tony winners - minus, maybe Moulin Rouge - and they're all experimental, weird, off-beat shows who all got awards and turned a profit. So, I don't think one show - one that is a very hard sell on all accounts - is going to stop people from producing prestige type theater. 

But, per the original question: Everything is more expensive. It's just going to go keep going up. That's just the world. There are plenty of ways to get discounted tickets, but even A Strange Loop charging $50 for rush is STEEP. 

I do fear we are getting to a point where to have a play/show be successful you need a movie star. Which sucks. We'll see how Leopolstadt does.