Will filming Broadway shows ever be profitable?

Those budgets are ridiculous, there's no way it costs that much x

Wick3 said: "I think it just depends on the Broadway show and whether there's a nationwide market for it. For instance, we all know the original Bway cast of HAmilton was filmed back in 2016. When they edit and release it in theaters nationwide, I can easily see it being profitable.

If they made a professional film of Dear Evan Hansen with Ben Platt still in it, I think that would have been profitable too once shown in cinemas nationwide.

Other shows, however, would have a hard time and similar to what others have said, it costs too much $$$ to justify it (presuming the likelihood of recouping the cost is low.)"



That's true, and yet it is mostly producers of flops/moderate hits/limited runs that take the risk and film their shows. Can't think of many big hits that were filmed for distribution.

TaleofTwo said: "Wick3 said: "I think it just depends on the Broadway show and whether there's a nationwide market for it. For instance, we all know the original Bway cast of HAmilton was filmed back in 2016. When they edit and release it in theaters nationwide, I can easily see it being profitable.

If they made a professional film of Dear Evan Hansen with Ben Platt still in it, I think that would have been profitable too once shown in cinemas nationwide.

Other shows, however, would have a hard time and similar to what others have said, it costs too much $$$ to justify it (presuming the likelihood of recouping the cost is low.)"



That's true, and yetit is mostly producers of flops/moderate hits/limited runs that take the risk and film their shows. Can't think of many big hits that were filmed for distribution."

The reason you only really see limited runs or closing shows recorded is because the producers know they're not going to continue to make ticket revenue and can therefore justify the cost of filming the show so that they can continue to profit after it closes. You won't see many currently-running hits get a professional recording because they're still raking in ticket money week after week. It doesn't make financial sense for a show to front the cost of a recording if they have no fear of closing and ceasing to make money. Take the professional recording of Shrek, for example. It was recorded fairly early in the show's run, when the original cast was still performing, but wasn't released to the public until well after the national tour had closed a few years later. Once the show is no longer profitable onstage, it makes sense to put out a recording so that the show can continue to make money. There are a few exceptions to this, such as Memphis, but the majority of professionally shot Broadway musicals that are available (She Loves Me, Bandstand, Newsies, Falsettos, RENT, etc) were shot near the end of their run with the knowledge that they would be closing soon. We probably won't see Hamilton released for a long time- there may be high demand to see the original cast amongst die-hard fans, but with six productions currently running and a seventh set to open in Puerto Rico, people are clearly still interested in buying tickets, which is ultimately more profitable.

TaleofTwo said: "So you can't really help but notice howBroadwayHDis basically the same company set in 2018. While they already got to film more than 3 shows (She Loves Me, Holiday Inn,Falsettos, Toxic Avenger,...) Ireally don't see how they canbecome a profitable business with the unions STILL being an obstacle in the way of everyone."

Has BroadwayHD filmed any shows? Those all seem like shows that were recorded by others and then BroadwayHD just paid for streaming rights.

Updated On: 9/3/18 at 11:25 PM

haterobics said: "TaleofTwo said: "So you can't really help but notice howBroadwayHDis basically the same company set in 2018. While they already got to film more than 3 shows (She Loves Me, Holiday Inn,Falsettos, Toxic Avenger,...) Ireally don't see how they canbecome a profitable business with the unions STILL being an obstacle in the way of everyone."

Has BroadwayHD filmed any shows? Those all seem like shows that were recorded by others and then BroadwayHDjust paid for streaming rights."



BroadwayHD produced with their own money shows like: She Loves Me, Old Hats, Holiday Inn, Ernest Shackleton Loves Me, The Wind in the Willows, The Toxic Avenger, Ann, Bright Colors Bold Patterns, The Portuguese Kid, Indecent, Present Laughter, and some more off-broadway plays...

She Loves Me and Holiday Inn were originally streamed live on BroadwayHD. She Loves Me is a Guinness World Record holder for the first Broadway show in history to be live streamed.

HogansHero said: "@OlBlueEyes, you are just repeating the same ol' "Broadway is Dying" claptrap we have been listening to since the beginning of Broadway. It ain't broke and it certainly doesn't need the kind of fix you are proposing. The only thing that will kill Broadway is if the powers that be sacrifice what makes it unique-that it is live and that the experience takes place every night between one cast and one audience. Oh and by the way, singers and bands don't make a living from streaming revenue and (except in extremely rare cases) never will. Know how they make money? Traveling around the world performing live (and selling some merch along the way)."

Hogan, if you believe that Broadway is healthy these days then you have had your head under the ground for as long as your namesake. Most with even a limited knowledge of business would see trouble when four of five shows lose the money of their donors. That is what they are. Donors, not investors.

No one is going to disrupt theater. The same live shows will be presented to all those mostly tourists with the great demographics of income and education. But a huge audience around the country will be able to come up with $20 to $40 dollars (I know not the exact amount) that will enable them to experience Wicked or The Bands's Visit. from their own home and their own family entertainment system. The sound produced by the home speakers may well be better than the sound in many locations of many theaters.

The theater is also failing to monopolize on a major source of revenue in a capitalist country: advertising. The Jaguars let Lucas Oil lend its name to its new stadium and much of the cost of its construction is covered. Tradition-bound Saratoga Race Course lets a new sire to be, RunHappy, lend his name to the premier race, The Travers, and there's enough money to pay its $1.5 million purse.

The theater, with its high demographics of income and occupation, would attract many sponsors who wanted to be connected with the New York music world. I'm sure that you have heard of the word "monetize." It's what Facebook did not due with Instagram until just recently. Turn a popular site for people with similar interests into a source of revenue.

Please don't try to instruct me on the subject of touring. As a former adviser to Live Nation let me tell you that the explosion in touring is a direct result of the disappearance of CDs and other tangible items on which the musicians' music could be sold. The music industry has been through a lot, but the transition from paying recording artists with a part of the money generated by CD sales is getting close to the end. Transitioning to the artists being paid copyright fees from the broadcasters who play their music is slowly taking over.

Touring has been an interim fix. Not that very old friends like Jorma and Cassady don't still enjoy playing together now in their seventies, but running around the country playing one night stands is difficult for those over seventy.

If you are really interested in learning about the changes in the music industry, which relate greatly to changes which must be made in theater, I can look for a couple of links. But I really believe that you are not interested in sharing information with someone. You are just looking for someone to bully.

@OlBlueEyes

re Broadway economics, it has always been thus; it's the nature of the beast. It's not something new.

re selling recorded/streamed/etc Broadway, we don't agree. I think it is the single most dangerous peril facing this business. It is throwing away what is unique and selling a mediocre substitute.

re the music industry, no thanks, but I will say that a lot of this is about putting the genie back in the bottle, which is not gonna happen. copyright is a 20th Century abomination that's due for its 21st Century remake. Value is in delivery, not content. It's a bitter pill.

And ya know, bullying is a serious thing and you diminish it in an offensive way when you use the term to mean that someone disagreed with you or called you on something.

Updated On: 9/3/18 at 10:23 PM

Hogan, you are I'm sure aware of your own "lack of graciousness" in addressing people with whom you disagree. I don't think that by my labeling you a bully you really have to worry about people confusing you with a school child who intimidates other children. But I retract the word. You are not a bully towards others here on the board. Maybe you would like to attach your own label to yourself.

Since we agree on nothing, I'll just state why I'm upset about the current state of musical theater. Attendance and box office keeps setting records. Yet almost all investors lose money. How kind of them. Why did Roundabout go from a fabulous season of Cabaret and On the 20th Century to a quiet season of She Loves Me, to which they sold the recording rights, to budget Holiday Inn, to nothing. Money?

Exactly who are the lucky few who get to see the live show? Quoting from the 2017 Broadway League report, 61 percent are tourists, the average age of one attending is 41.7 years and the average household income of the theatergoer is $194,940.

So this is what Broadway exists for. To entertain a small number of the elite? While Kelli O'Hara is growing up in rural Oklahoma and watching the film version of Oklahoma on TV. Do you think that the elegant live broadcast of South Pacific in 2010 would have even taken a bite out of her desire to see the show live. I sure don't. How many of us here near Manhattan see a show we like multiple times. And we're seeing the live production.

But what really, really concerns me about the state of the theater is that, due to the great risk of investing in a Broadway musical, producers and directors are trying to minimize the risk by drawing on known hits of the pop culture to build musicals around.

I really hope that it was just a put-on last week when a thread was started on a new musical based on Green Acres. Look at all the pop films and other forms of entertainment that have been the source of musicals lately. Pretty Woman. Spiderman. This is a challenge to Oscar the Great's re-creation of the musical as truly a musical play derived from an existing piece of literature or conjured up in the head of the book writer. The literature supplying the inspiration did not have to be great in itself. Show Boat and Green Grow the Lilacs are not classics in themselves, but a talented professional writer set the scene, created the characters and defined the conflicts. Famous writers, John Steinbeck in particular, wrote new novels to see them produced on Broadway. It was prestige.

Now I see the musical theater, which used to be a beacon leading us away from the pop culture, is now becoming just another outlet for all the trash.

I'm spoiled now that I live in New York, but when I did not, I would have killed to see many filmed shows. Heck, considering how expensive tickets can be, I would still pay to watch filmed performances if they are cheaper than seeing certain shows live. The problem is that I doubt I'm in the majority. There needs to be a viable demand to make these taped/filmed/digitally captured performances profitable. So first, we need to make Broadway music hit the mainstream. That's a problem I have no answer to but I bet someone much smarter can figure something out. I also think it can be done well as I do think there is a craft and art to adapting filmed stage performances and there are people out there who would do it well.

Updated On: 9/4/18 at 11:04 AM