When and why did overtures go out of style?- Page 3

[ljay889]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 1:30am

MATILDA doesn't really count as an overture. It's basically a 40 second prelude. Similar to what is used in Next to Normal and If/Then.

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 1:56am

I don't really believe overtures have gone out of style. Not every show needs an overture, depending on the dramatic structure, but there are still plenty that do use them. Godspell probably doesn't suffer from not having one nor does Carousel. Personally, it's one of the most exciting parts of the experience for me.

[mjohnson2]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 2:00am

What do you call "The Carousel Waltz"? Sure, there is staging, but it is essentially an overture like the "Prologue" for WEST SIDE STORY

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 2:11am

Candide's overture is a masterpiece.

Some of my other favorites are:

Henry, Sweet Henry (brilliant to sing along with!)
I Had A Ball
Hallelujah, Baby!
Darling of the Day
Finian's Rainbow
Fade Out, Fade In
Wildcat
Whoop-Up (believe it or not)
Dear World

My all-time favorite that I can listen to over and over again with so much joy is Plain and Fancy.

[binau]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 2:16am

I'm surprised that "Show Boat" has not come up, I like that one (along with all the typical favourites already mentioned).

[mjohnson2]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 2:18am

SHOW BOAT's overture is masterful. I also really love the one for THE THREEPENNY OPERA, even though it's not typically full bodied.

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 2:19am

Mjonson, a traditional overture is a medley of songs from the show. "The Carousel Waltz" is a stand-alone production/dance number.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 3:15am

Sporkgoddess, Jesus Christ Superstar's overture consists of: Jesus Must Die, Hosanna, Trial Before Pilot, The 39 Lashes (including the handwashing sement) then Superstar. So many of the songs in Superstar switch themes and melodies. In the movie it is basically Trial bBefore Pilot and Superstar.

[mjohnson2]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 3:22am

Okay Willmington, I have a different definition of an overture than most people on this thread (I just consider it any music before the official opening number and that people can sing in it or not) but by the usual definition of an overture, yes CAROUSEL doesn't have one.

[canmark]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 10:56am

Perhaps the lack of overture is akin to the way movies these days tend to omit extensive opening credits. While some contemporary directors (Woody Allen, for example) still list everyone from the cast to the costume designer before the start of the film proper, with most contemporary movies you are thrust right into the show with maybe just the title of the film and the name of the director. I think perhaps modern directors see lengthy title credits as artificial, and want to immerse the audience in the world of the film right from the get-go. Similarly, creators of musicals may want to immerse the audience in the show without the musical introduction of the overture – which gives away melodies to be heard later in the show.

Note: my favorite overture is Oklahoma!

Updated On: 9/28/14 at 10:56 AM

[promisespromises2]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 12:05pm

It makes me sad! On the musicals that I DO have overtures for, I thoroughly jam out to them in the car. It's a nice break from vocals sometimes.

My favorites are: Promises, Promises, Anything Goes, Gypsy, Funny Girl, and the Prelude to Sweeney Todd.

[JohnyBroadway]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 12:23pm

I am not sure when it was added into the production, but the overture for Joseph is also pretty fun.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 12:33pm

Sporkgoddess, Jesus Christ Superstar's overture consists of: Jesus Must Die, Hosanna, Trial Before Pilot, The 39 Lashes (including the handwashing sement) then Superstar. So many of the songs in Superstar switch themes and melodies. In the movie it is basically Trial bBefore Pilot and Superstar.

Oh, that's interesting. In the community stage productions I've seen it's usually been Trial Before Pilate/Superstar. I saw one professional touring production, but I can't remember which songs were used in the overture.

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 1:04pm

Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, Cats, and The Phantom of the Opera all have awesome overtures :)

[Sally Durant Plummer]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 1:09pm

I've always been partial to the House of Flowers Overture - the magnificent blend of Broadway and Calypso. And those steel drums!

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 1:22pm

I'll give a shout out to the overture from The Fantasticks. Just lovely.

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 9/28/14 at 8:57pm

The one overture I really like is the one for Curtains. However, going back to the whole "audiences don't have the attention spans for an overture" comment. I want to say that I remember being at a performance of Curtains where the house lights weren't all the way down, so many peopler just sat there playing with their phones etc and treating the overture as background music instead of the start of the show.

However, there have been times where directors go out of their way to make an overture clearly part of the show. I remember this being the case with the most recent revival of Gypsy, and the amazingly done overture for the South Pacific revival. To me, there was nothing like sitting the theatre with a full orchestra playing that amazing overture. And, I loved when they pulled back the stage so that the audience could see the orchestra.

Posted: 9/29/14 at 12:07am

I think I may have been one of those people who skipped the overtures in cast recordings. However, I love them when sitting in the theatre. But after being the Drowsy Chaperones I appreciate/love overtures!

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 9/29/14 at 12:44am

Even though its not really an overture, the opening to Miss Saigon is epic!!!

[Justin D]

Posted: 9/29/14 at 9:42am

I agree that some shows today dont need them. But there are times when they are totally unnecessary but still used. Two examples that come to mind are both Disney shows, Beauty and the Beast and Aida both have little instrumental bits before the first true opening number (what would be the first song on the CD) and they do not help the show at all.

However I do Love an entr'acte after intermission, and it's always fun at Mamma Mia to watch the old people in the audience have mini heartattacks when their entr-acte starts up.

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 9/29/14 at 10:21am

I think it's interesting that so many posters initially said it had to do with shortened attention spans of modern audiences, which I'm guessing means within the last 15 years, but how many Sondheim shows have lengthy, "traditional" overtures?

[MarkBearSF]

Posted: 9/29/14 at 11:01am

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Merrily We Roll Along (especially the original that included Rich & Famous) One of my favorite razz-ma-tazz overtures.

[Marianne2]

Posted: 9/29/14 at 11:04am

Mamma Mia has an overture before it goes into Sophie's little I Have a Dream part. I think that works well because just starting it at Sophie would be awkward, in my opinion.

Not sure about the attention span argument. Because people still do awful things without an overture. Though I did go to a high school production once where the entire audience used the overture as conversation time before the action started.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 9/29/14 at 11:46am

When? The shift began in the 60s (which is not to suggest that there were never shows without overtures before that; there may well have been some).

Why? Because of both the changes in composition and style of score (a trend away from a grander orchestral sound) and the rise of a new kind of beginning to a show, the tone-setting emblematic first number (of the "Comedy Tonight/Tradition/Aquarius/Company/Night Waltz/Requiem for Eva/Jellicle Songs for Jellicle Cats/Attend the Tale/" variety).

Of course, there are exceptions and flirtations with nostalgia.

Updated On: 9/29/14 at 11:46 AM

[temms]

Posted: 9/29/14 at 1:02pm

I have never heard that "Superstar" overture mentioned above. The only overture to that show I've ever heard/seen is the one that begins with the guitar playing the "Good Caiaphas/The council waits for you" line, and continues through the "Crucify him" section up through the "Superstar" theme. It's possible somebody else assembled a different overture for a production somewhere that uses a medley but it's certainly not a part of the "official" materials.

As for the "West Side Story" overture, Bernstein actually conducted it on Broadway for the opening one of the revivals, so he was certainly aware of it and didn't mind it all that much. It wasn't assembled by him and consists of "utility" arrangements of songs already in the show (though there's a nice French Horn solo on "Somewhere"). I do agree that it's useless and would rather the show begin with the Prologue.

As someone who loves overtures, I'm happy to not have them. Audiences don't listen, and that aggravates me and doesn't bring me into the world of the show at all. I can go to the Met, and the audience will listen in rapt silence to the overture of "Marriage of Figaro" and it will be glorious. At a Broadway house ("South Pacific" excepted), "Overture" means background music played while the people around you continue their conversation with the house lights at half and I stew in frustration.

Also, the sound systems at most Broadway shows are not all that conducive to making instrumental music sound its best, plus they tend to overcompensate with the volume to try and drown out the talkers, which only means the talkers have to talk louder...

Leave the overtures for Encores! and the cast albums. If the object is to "get people into the world of the show" most unstaged Broadway overtures seem to fail completely with modern audiences.