Dear Theater Fans, Please Stop Stealing- Page 3

[canadian fan]

Posted: 5/3/17 at 6:32pm

elephantseye said: "Are you seriously making the claim that being able to follow Ben Platt on Twitter is comparable to watching him perform DEH

 

I think that is totally taking what was said out of context.

DEH was never mentioned. The point was that 25 years ago a person may not have any opportunity to hear or see Ben Platt perform at all. Now through all the various forms of social media, this is now possible.  

Its a very valid point.

 

 

[IlanaKeller]

Posted: 5/3/17 at 6:39pm

elephantseye said: "Are you seriously making the claim that being able to follow Ben Platt on Twitter is comparable to watching him perform DEH"

Nope. Read it again.  

 

[Fosse76]

Posted: 5/3/17 at 6:46pm

Bootlegs - It is only illegal to create a bootleg. Purchasing or owning bootlegs is not illegal. Buying them certainly deprives producers income, as well as denying additional compensation to the artists involved. But this isn't simply selling a product that is available, so the amount of money "lost" by the producers of a show is pretty negligible. 

Playbills - Playbill pays each theater landlord to distribute Playbills. While it is technically a no-no to take bundles of Playbills, the theater landlords have a policy to give extra Playbills to anyone who asks. No need to take discarded Playbills off the floor, just ask an usher for an extra Playbill.

Stagedooring - A paying audience member is no more "entitled" to interact with an actor from the show than someone walking by. Who really cares? Base on that "article" any friends of the actors who wait for them at the stage door without having seen the show are "stealing." 

The rest are pretty much common sense. What's the point?

[dramamama611]

Posted: 5/3/17 at 6:48pm

Just because you CAN doesn't mean you should.

 

Whatever did people do 25 years ago, 50 years before bootlegging was a thing?  They accepted the fact that you can't always get what you want.

[wonkit]

Posted: 5/3/17 at 8:00pm

While I may or may not agree with the points you are making, I find the tone to be terribly superior and condescending. Similar to the tone of a third grade teacher lecturing her charges about how to act while on a field trip. 

[OlBlueEyes]

Posted: 5/3/17 at 8:50pm

'The reason PBS stations can't replay this is contracts.  Those creatives, cast and presumably crew who were involved were paid something for their participation.  Live From Lincoln Center or PBS presumably made a deal for one airing and one airing only.  Because the production of South Pacific was broadcast, that means it falls under the SAG/AFTRA, DGA and WGA contracts, which means that if it were to be reaired, then all those individuals who fall under one of those contracts would be owed some amount of residuals.  That's where this comes down to stealing.  It's copyright law.  If you violate it, you are taking money out of someone's pocket.  

Take She Loves Me for instance.  If someone downloaded the official broadcast of that, then Benanti, Levi et al would receive (a little) bit of money for that.  However, if somebody made their own bootleg of the show and watched that instead of the official capture, then they're keeping money from going to the people who could and should be getting paid for their participation.  

It's no different than people who download the pirated episodes of the upcoming season of Orange is the New Black and watch them.  By not waiting and watching them through Netflix, you are depriving Netflix of recognizing you as a viewer of said content.  Thus, depending on how the residual contracts are written, you not being recognized means less money into the pockets of those involved who get residuals based on the number of hits or downloads.  

The assertion that copyright law hasn't changed since the 1920s is just inaccurate.  It's constantly being updated and rewritten to better protect creatives as new technology becomes available.  That's what the whole Napster copyright battle was about 15 years ago.  The bigger problem is that attitudes toward copyright have changed.  Now that things are infinitely more accessible in terms of becoming aware of them and the technology to share them, somehow a plethora of attitudes have come to believe that because people from all over the world can be interested in "experiences" -- ie -- shows, movies, performances -- then they have the right to consume them.  And unfortunately the law (nor ethics) support that philosophy.  

That's why the author called out bootlegs as stealing.  Because the law (and FBI) consider it intellectual property theft.   "

Thank you for your earnest answer. I'm sure you know that copyright infringement cases are almost never decided in criminal court. The Internet pirates attempting to steal mass recordings and sell them for large profits might qualify for criminal treatment. Individual bootlegs, never. But I'm not looking to justify bootlegging as a business, just bootlegging by a private person who loves the show.

And really I don't want to see bootlegging at all. Just release the recording after a sufficient time has passed since the end of the show and tour if any. Get paid for it and distribute the proceeds to those who created the show.

You say that Live From Lincoln Center live productions are prevented from more than one replay because of contracts restricting the various parties. Contracts are not engraved in stone. Contracts can be amended or re-negotiated. Let the parties meet and decide how to divide up the consumer revenue. If the parties can not decide, then usually contracts provide for mediation by an arbitrator, instead of lengthy and expensive civil court proceedings. Settle. It happens all the time in every type of market.

You bring up the example of She Loves Me. Not sure why you bring it up here. That show was streamed all over the world to anyone who wanted to see a live performance and it can be viewed at any time by subscribers to Broadway HD. If all of their creatives could create a done deal, then why not those who labor for Lincoln Center Theater? 

I don't believe that there is a coherent reason for not publishing this South Pacific performance. The way is clear but the will is lacking.

[djoko84]

Posted: 5/4/17 at 6:30am

I'm going to make this short. I agree with the article about bootlegs, but TOTALLY DISAGREE about Playbills and Stagedooring. And guess what... just because you wrote about it doesn't mean I'll stop doing it.

[froote]

Posted: 5/4/17 at 7:24am

I do think the stage door thing is irritating at popular shows when those that have actually seen the show aren't able to get a look in due to the huge crowds. Otherwise, it's fine.

As for bootlegs, yes it's wrong but it has happened for decades and it wont stop, so I see little point in telling people not to. It's like telling people to stop streaming movies for free, it wont happen.

[IlanaKeller]

Posted: 5/4/17 at 9:17pm

djoko84 said: "I'm going to make this short. I agree with the article about bootlegs, but TOTALLY DISAGREE about Playbills and Stagedooring. And guess what... just because you wrote about it doesn't mean I'll stop doing it."

And? Would you like to provide any reasons why you feel it is justified and have a discussion, or do you just want to proclaim it on an internet forum for no reason?

 

[perfectliar]

Posted: 5/4/17 at 11:49pm

wonkit said: "While I may or may not agree with the points you are making, I find the tone to be terribly superior and condescending. Similar to the tone of a third grade teacher lecturing her charges about how to act while on a field trip. "

This. Why ask for opinions if you're just going to chastise and fight with anyone who disagrees? Thirsty girl is thirsty.

[djoko84]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 6:47am

IlanaKeller said: "djoko84 said: "I'm going to make this short. I agree with the article about bootlegs, but TOTALLY DISAGREE about Playbills and Stagedooring. And guess what... just because you wrote about it doesn't mean I'll stop doing it."

And? Would you like to provide any reasons why you feel it is justified and have a discussion, or do you just want to proclaim it on an internet forum for no reason?

"

Refer to wonkit's post at #54 and perfectliar's post at #59.

Updated On: 5/5/17 at 06:47 AM

[haterobics]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 6:52am

You can question stagedoor etiquette all you'd like, but you're essentially queuing on the public sidewalk at that point.

[GiantsInTheSky2]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 7:29am

perfectliar said: "wonkit said: "While I may or may not agree with the points you are making, I find the tone to be terribly superior and condescending. Similar to the tone of a third grade teacher lecturing her charges about how to act while on a field trip. "

This. Why ask for opinions if you're just going to chastise and fight with anyone who disagrees? Thirsty girl is thirsty."

They just want to speak with authority and feel superior in some way. They are not open minded enough for actual discussion on the matter. Tired. Next.

[Ado Annie D'Ysquith]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 9:34am

[Dane F]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 9:47am

Gonna have to agree with the camp here that states that this just oozes as being very lecturing and being very condescending, llana.

Within the first few sentences of your opening post, I found myself rolling my eyes and going "Wow, really?". If you wanted to actually come off as someone who was looking for a discussion and not as some stuffy grade school teacher tool, reactions like what I had should show you that you're not exactly approaching this correctly.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 10:32am

Whatever did people do 25 years ago, 50 years before bootlegging was a thing?

Actually, there are lots of audio bootlegs from the 60s.

[darquegk]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 10:42am

Bootlegging goes much farther back than audio recording- Gilbert and Sullivan was bootlegged with in-theatre transcriptions of the songs sent overseas to America before the official troupe could do an international tour. Even some of our Shakespeare folios today are suspected to be transcribed and reconstructed bootlegs.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 11:06am

There are excellent full show bootleg audios starting from like the late 1950s.  Shows archived this way are Mary Martin in THE SOUND OF MUSIC, Ethel Merman in GYPSY to even Barbra Streisand's final performance in FUNNY GIRL in December 1965.   Without these bootlegged audios, there is no documentation of a full performance of these legendary performers in their legendary roles.  Sadly, these took place decades before the advent of home video so no video bootleg could be done to document the shows themselves.   The only footage that exists of Barbra on Broadway in FUNNY GIRL are snippets of silent 8mm home movie footage shot by one of the dancers.  

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 11:10am

Yes. In a few decades, bootlegs end up in documentaries, labeled as "audience capture."

[bk]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 11:40am

Even though someone already pointed it out - let me reiterate - NONE of this stuff as it happens today, happened before a) the Internet, and b) home video (for bootlegs), other than someone taking an 8mm camera in a theater and shooting some silent footage that only he and whatever chums he might have over could view in his own home.  Clips.  No sound.

The stagedooring thing is completely a product of the age in which we live.  You think there was this mass stagedooring in the 50s?  60s?  70s?  80s?  There wasn't.  Ever.  If I was visiting folks I knew in the show afterwards, there was no huge crowd at the stage door - frequently there were no people there, but if there were people there we're talking maybe five or ten.  Today it's just nuts and while actors seem tolerant and some even happy to do it, I find it a bit invasive after they've done their hard-working job to not just be able to, you know, go home or meet friends, without spending an additional fifteen or thirty minutes outside the stage door, but I understand it's all about selfies and posting that you got to meet someone or said hi or whatever.  Didn't happen before the Internet.

No one took piles of Playbills before the 90s.  Ever.  

The bootlegs began as soon as video cameras became small enough to sort of conceal - anyone who's seen those 80s things know exactly how irritating they are - we're frequently looking at the back of someone's head or the ceiling of the theater - brilliant.  Now it's easier, now everyone's entitled to do whatever they want.  Sure.  I get it.  

 

[AC126748]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 11:46am

As Mister Matt points out, audio bootlegs have been around for a long time. I have heard bootlegs of live opera performances dating back to the '30s and '40s. It's nothing new--it's just easier to get away with nowadays.

[bk]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 11:50am

I wasn't aware we were talking about audio bootlegs.  Of course they've been around a long time - and again I will tell you that at the time they were done they weren't routinely and indiscriminately shared with hundreds of thousands of people.  You do understand that part, yes?  Everyone can keep dancing around the subject, but all of the things talked about in this article are products of the age in which we live.

[haterobics]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 11:51am

I went to a Louis CK show once, and bootlegged the audio with my phone, and the next day, he posted on Twitter asking whether anyone did, since he liked how one of the jokes went that night and his recording didn't pan out. I wrote him back and he replied that he already got it, but thanks. Not a direct corollary, but he did have signs posted to not record the show.

[SweetLips]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 3:24pm

Ado---love your gif--havn't seen that before and perfect for many thoughts here.

Can you find a cow[any animal with a tail] running in circles chasing it's own tail?

Living in Australia a friend of a friend etc sends bootleg copies of all the shows and passes them on to me--the only way I will ever see them. Usually I have to give up before the end because of poor quality but at least get the idea of the production.

Playbills--don't exist here but The Production Co.produces their own [free].

Stagedooring----Love to hear what the artists say JUST before they step outside to face the mob [just want to get home and have a good fvck !]--you make one up then.

x

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 5/5/17 at 3:26pm

dramamama611 said: "Just because you CAN doesn't mean you should.

 Whatever did people do 25 years ago, 50 years before bootlegging was a thing?  They accepted the fact that you can't always get what you want."

It was going on 50 years ago too. Bootlegs of Maria Callas are the most revered and celebrated recordings of her work today.