Hamilton on Disney to be MUTED?- Page 2

[CT2NYC]

Posted: 2/13/20 at 1:24pm

darquegk said: "PG-13 allows a certain number of uses of the f-word as exclamation, as long as none of them are as a verb for copulation. Disney's ABC sitcom "The Goldbergs" has a running gag of how foul-mouthed the wholesome sitcom mom is, dropping the f-word at least once per episode and getting bleeped (usually as part of a longer, more colorful and heavily censored chain of curses). I wouldn't be surprised if there's at least one f-word on the Disney+ roster already in the acquisition of Marvel films, though I wouldn't bet money on it."

No Marvel film has the f-word in it. It's implied, cut off, and beeped, but you'll never actually hear it.

[darquegk]

Posted: 2/13/20 at 2:18pm

You're right on a technicality it seems: MCU films never use the word, but Marvel's outsourced films have used it frequently, particularly films with Deadpool or Wolverine.

[CT2NYC]

Posted: 2/13/20 at 2:24pm

darquegk said: "You're right on a technicality it seems: MCU films never use the word, but Marvel's outsourced films have used it frequently, particularly films with Deadpool or Wolverine."

Yes, I was referring specifically to the ones on Disney Plus.

[gypsy101]

Posted: 2/13/20 at 3:56pm

darquegk said: "You're right on a technicality it seems: MCU films never use the word, but Marvel's outsourced films have used it frequently, particularly films with Deadpool or Wolverine."

the films weren’t outsourced, they were made by fox when they had the rights to the X-Men characters

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 2/13/20 at 5:13pm

Lot666 said: "Maybe they'll just overdub the "objectionable" words, like non-cable TV channels do when they air shows like Sex and the City."

I worked production on a few seasons of SEX AND THE CITY and sections where profanity was used we filmed alternate takes with no profanity for the syndication version of the series.  No dubbing was done in post.  

[bear88]

Posted: 2/13/20 at 8:21pm

I never have thought of Hamilton as a foulmouthed show, and "Say No to This" is staged a lot more discreetly than it could have been. And has been mentioned, there's plenty of self-censoring (which is often quite funny). 

Something about this just hit me wrong. It's Hamilton! The stray f-bombs don't refer to copulation (except for the one that's deliberately cut off). None are essential, but muting a film that many people have been waiting to see for years just feels unnecessary and wrong. What will they do? Have sing-a-long shows where people will just sing all the ****s with abandon, a la school dances?

Miranda is certainly right that Hamilton fans know the lyrics. But an acclaimed show like this shouldn't be treated like it's some sort of scandalous, naughty movie.

[sparksatmidnight]

Posted: 2/13/20 at 8:23pm

Are people really worried about a release that's more than a year and a half away for which you know nothing except the fact that it exists? Jeez

(but I really can't wait for the people crying DEEZNEE BED CENSORSHIP about the self censored words in the show)

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 2/13/20 at 11:05pm

Can we stop justifying bad decisions because it's Lin, and it's Hamilton? It's stupid to censor words from a film release if it wasn't previously accounted for in the actual filming. If I wanted to watch a censored film, I'd watch the afternoon movie on my local TV station, circa the 90s, where it was free.

Audiences who want to see the filmed show should see the 100% original version that the stage audiences have been enjoying for years now. Why penalize them because it's Disney? Hell, Disney owns half of Hollywood, they could easily release it under one of the many labels under their umbrella. Revive Touchstone Pictures if you have to!

If you think your kids can see 2.5 hours of rapping history, they should also assume their kids can handle and F-bomb uncensored. And I'd be disappointed if Lin allows it to happen.

[CT2NYC]

Posted: 2/13/20 at 11:39pm

everythingtaboo said: "Can we stop justifying bad decisions because it's Lin, and it's Hamilton? It's stupid to censor words from a film release if it wasn't previously accounted for in the actual filming. If I wanted to watch a censored film, I'd watch the afternoon movie on my local TV station, circa the 90s, where it was free.

Audiences who want to see the filmed show should see the 100% original version that the stage audiences have been enjoying for years now. Why penalize them because it's Disney? Hell, Disney owns half of Hollywood, they could easily release it under one of the many labels under their umbrella. Revive Touchstone Pictures if you have to!

If you think your kids can see 2.5 hours of rapping history, they should also assume their kids can handle and F-bomb uncensored. And I'd be disappointed if Lin allows it to happen."

Because it's Disney, people seem to be assuming that other studios wouldn't have the same issue, but I think they would. I could be wrong, but I don't think any studio would release it as an R-rated film. 

Updated On: 2/13/20 at 11:39 PM

[bear88]

Posted: 2/14/20 at 12:05am

The reason it will probably be muted is illustrated on this very thread. All the f-words on the thread have been replaced by asterisks. I wasn't thinking about that when I posted earlier. I'm sure it's just an automatic thing on language, so I'm not complaining.

But if posts on a Broadway message board about the possibility that certain words in Hamilton will be muted is edited by the mods, it's not unreasonable to think Disney is going to be cautious and avoid anything that will decrease the film's exposure and potential profitability. I don't have to like it, and if it happens, it will take me out of the film a bit. But the movie's success does not depend on people like me, who have seen the musical 5 times and already has the cast recording. It depends on getting people into the theater who have never seen it, people who might be turned off to excessive swearing. There are entire websites devoted to telling people if movies are appropriate for their kids. And Disney has a brand to protect, and it is trying to build Hamilton into something more than a 5-year-old filmed Broadway show.  

I still don't like the idea at all, and the possibility never occurred to me until today. If it happens, I hope there are different versions made available, but I guess I understand the rationale. 

[GreasedLightning]

Posted: 2/14/20 at 1:48am

everythingtaboo said: "Can we stop justifying bad decisions because it's Lin, and it's Hamilton? It's stupid to censor words from a film release if it wasn't previously accounted for in the actual filming. If I wanted to watch a censored film, I'd watch the afternoon movie on my local TV station, circa the 90s, where it was free.

Audiences who want to see the filmed show should see the 100% original version that the stage audiences have been enjoying for years now. Why penalize them because it's Disney? Hell, Disney owns half of Hollywood, they could easily release it under one of the many labels under their umbrella. Revive Touchstone Pictures if you have to!

If you think your kids can see 2.5 hours of rapping history, they should also assume their kids can handle and F-bomb uncensored. And I'd be disappointed if Lin allows it to happen."

Thank you for this. 

[bear88]

Posted: 2/14/20 at 4:48am

I guess part of my negative reaction is that this isn't a movie musical adaptation of the show. It is a filmed version of the show. I saw it with most of that cast. So it just feels wrong to me for a musical to be altered to get a PG or PG-13 rating from the MPAA or so movie theaters in more conservative areas will show it. ( can't see how it's ever an R-rated movie, but what do I know?) The combination of elements that made it work included portraying the Founding Fathers, and Hamilton himself, as flawed individuals who, for the purposes of the musical, swore on occasion - for dramatic or humorous effect.

Sorry if I'm all over the map with my posts. It just never occurred to me until this afternoon that Disney/the producers/Lin would change or mute a word of the actual musical. My first reaction was very negative. My second reaction was me playing devil's advocate. And now I'm sort of back to my original position. I hope they don't do it, because if you're going to present a filmed version of the show many people never got to see (and can't afford), altering the substance of the show just seems wrong. I'm not sure if it's even a good marketing tactic. 

[SweetLips22]

Posted: 2/14/20 at 5:02am

Nuted?

[Ladylusiphur]

Posted: 2/14/20 at 8:03am

I was wondering how censored it has to be to comply with the rules. For example, The Tony's Performance of Yorktown (version I've seen on YouTube, don't know if it was different in person) has a slightly toned down version of Mulligan's F-Bomb. It's not quite censored, but he doesn't say it as outright as he does in the show either. So it's still there in spirit but not quite as offensive and doesn't change the intention as much. Does that still count as swearing for the purposes of a rating? 
I'm sure there are ways of editing it so that it's not changed too much without outright beeping or muting. 

[Lot666]

Posted: 2/14/20 at 8:20am

BrodyFosse123 said: "Lot666 said: "Maybe they'll just overdub the "objectionable" words, like non-cable TV channels do when they air shows like Sex and the City."

I worked production on a few seasons of SEX AND THE CITY and sections where profanity was used we filmed alternate takes with no profanity for the syndication version of the series. No dubbing was done in post."

I've seen reruns of this show on non-cable channels and it's sometimes quite clear where a word has been inserted. In fact, it sometimes doesn't even sound like the same actor saying the word.

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 2/14/20 at 8:42am

I've seen reruns of this show on non-cable channels and it's sometimes quite clear where a word has been inserted. In fact, it sometimes doesn't even sound like the same actor saying the word.

Those definitely were the very early seasons as I was there on set during the later seasons when they would get “coverage” with the non-profanity words.  This was done at the end of filming the original version of the scenes.  

[ellbellthomps]

Posted: 2/14/20 at 9:13am

I really don't think it's a big deal...

5 swear words not being there should not make or break your experience. If they do censor it, I understand why. It will reach manyyy more people since the rating will be lower. 

I think this show IS important for kids to see, not only for the fact that it's popular but also because of the diversity and portaying history. 

FYI: I'd let my kids see it even with the swearing, but I'm sure many would not. 

[Hot Pants]

Posted: 2/14/20 at 9:46am

I hate the idea of censoring it. This isn’t a dirty show, that’s why those moments of profanity work. In all honesty, I could imagine them getting a PG13 rating even without censoring, givjj in my the historical significance and enormous popularity of the show. Titanic got a pass despite having nudity (something much more inappropriate), why can’t Hamilton?

[ellbellthomps]

Posted: 2/14/20 at 10:42am

Hot Pants said: "I hate the idea of censoring it. This isn’t a dirty show, that’s why those moments of profanity work. In all honesty, I could imagine them getting a PG13 rating even without censoring, givjj in my the historical significance and enormous popularity of the show. Titanic got a pass despite having nudity (something much more inappropriate), why can’t Hamilton?"

I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be more than PG-13. 

The only reason it was PG-13 was because back in 2001, the rules were muchhh less strict. There has been a big change in criteria and sensitivity. 

Try to think of a newer movie rated G. I don't think I've seen one in years. 

I understand why people may be upset, but I personally would not care. Would I prefer it with the words? Sure, but I dont mind. 

[TheGingerBreadMan]

Posted: 2/14/20 at 2:23pm

everythingtaboo said: "Can we stop justifying bad decisions because it's Lin, and it's Hamilton? It's stupid to censor words from a film release if it wasn't previously accounted for in the actual filming. If I wanted to watch a censored film, I'd watch the afternoon movie on my local TV station, circa the 90s, where it was free.

Audiences who want to see the filmed show should see the 100% original version that the stage audiences have been enjoying for years now. Why penalize them because it's Disney? Hell, Disney owns half of Hollywood, they could easily release it under one of the many labels under their umbrella. Revive Touchstone Pictures if you have to!

If you think your kids can see 2.5 hours of rapping history, they should also assume their kids can handle and F-bomb uncensored. And I'd be disappointed if Lin allows it to happen."

I'm not convinced that it's a case of Lin allowing it happen or not. When you're an individual, or even a group of individuals, dealing with a giant such as Disney, you don't get to make those decisions. Disney will tell Lin what they want and he can either say yes or pull out completely (which he obviously won't do - he wants this to be released, and there's also the mega $$$ factor). Lin won't have a ton of power in saying no to these types of things.

Regarding the rating: I do think that Hamilton, as written, could pass as PG-13. Maybe just barely, but I don't think that there's enough sexual content or excessive profanity to warrant an R rating. As others have said, "Say No To This" isn't staged to a degree where it would be offensive to the masses, and the swear words are not used in a sexual context except for the F*** that's already censored as part of the show. G ratings have certainly become less and less common as standards get higher - the only major films to receive a G rating in the last years, to my knowledge, are Cars 3 and Toy Story 4. There have been others, of course, but none that received distribution to the extent of the two films that I already mentioned and none that achieved much acclaim or notoriety. Noelle on Disney+ also received a G rating recently.

[CT2NYC]

Posted: 2/14/20 at 2:47pm

Motherf***er and motherf***ing earn an automatic "R" rating. They're sexual uses of the word, which is a no-no, and I don't think Hamilton's cultural significance is enough to change that. 

[darquegk]

Posted: 2/14/20 at 4:23pm

Yeah mother **** is simultaneously expletive, sexual and Freudian; until about twenty years ago it was also considered a racial term as well (allegedly it was primarily used by black men, referring to the way white men had their way with slaves and lower class black women).

There’s a reason only the C word is more controversial in America than MF is- there’s a lot of layers and history to that one colorful phrase.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 2/14/20 at 6:46pm

They dubbed Greased Lightning and Look At Me I’m Sandra Dee in “Grease” when it aired on TV. It still rocked my world and Stockard Channing’s portrayal of Rizzo still made me gay. A few cuts hurts nothing. People need to relax.

[GiantsInTheSky2]

Posted: 2/15/20 at 7:04am

Y’all are REALLY overreacting. They’ll end up mutiny about 4 seconds total from a 2.5 hour musical - that was bought and being distributed by DISNEY. Why this is a surprise (or even important) to anyone is hilarious. You would think they were going to mute the entire thing by the way some of you are clutching your pearls...

[trpguyy]

Posted: 2/15/20 at 7:58am

“Patton Oswald - Clean Filth” on YouTube for a great illustration of the ridiculousness of systematic censorship.