Beanie’s Last Performance 9/25- Page 10

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 6/24/22 at 10:19pm

Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity, and the people who are Jewish don't necessarily "look" Jewish.

Daveed Diggs is Jewish. Scarlett Johansson is Jewish. Gwyneth Paltrow is Jewish. None of them "look" Jewish.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 6/25/22 at 6:23pm

Beanie just called out of tonight's FG performance. Correct me if I'm wrong but this is the 23rd performance she's missed.

[TaffyDavenport]

Posted: 6/25/22 at 6:57pm

It's Pride weekend, so I'm sure there will be some disappointed gays there, but hopefully they'll give Julie a chance.

Updated On: 6/25/22 at 06:57 PM

[Auggie27]

Posted: 6/25/22 at 8:33pm

To give her the benefit of the doubt: she was apparently symptomatic with Covid, a respiratory infection after all. I’m no advocate for her performance or casting (saw a Wednesday matinee in June) but there’s no denying the challenge in returning to this vocally demanding role after having flu symptoms. Calling out the second show of a Saturday sounds like acceptance of an inability to deliver tonight.

Updated On: 6/25/22 at 08:33 PM

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 6/25/22 at 9:31pm

UncleCharlie said: "Judaism is a religion, a faith, a set of beliefs, what you worship and to whom you pray in Temple on the Sabbath. With the possible exception of Ivanka Trump, people who convert to Judaism during their lives are no less Jewish than those born into it, perhaps more since they have made a proactive choice to be Jewish.. Which means to say, anybody with any appearance can be Jewish.

As a Jew myself, this discussion on whether the role needs to be played by someone who is Jewish themselves is a bit troubling simply because it is subconsciously based on the belief that most if not all Jews look and sound a certain way and that is based on historical stereotypes and biases, most of them unflattering. "She definitely looks Jewish" is often not meant as a compliment. Unless the role is one where the character largely spends their time studying the Torah or preparing the house for the Sabbath, I'm not sure there needs to be a requirement for the person to have the same spiritual beliefs as the real life person on which the role is based."

I certainly dont think Sarah Silverman was suggesting Jews look a certain way and must be played by Jew-looking Jews. She was--as very well stated below-- saying why are Jewish actors tasked to play some Jewish roles but when it comes to a mainstream, protagonist, hero-ish performance, suddenly they arent in the mix? I dont know how I feel about it and its complicated. A Black Jew playing Hodel makes more sense than a Catholic playing Hodel, when the latter looks more like what a Ukrainian Jew from the 1890s would look like? I don't know. 

But i would like to correct the above. Judaism is a religion, in that it includes a set of beliefs and one can opt-in to those beliefs. But my DNA results are pretty clear (at least 50% of them are) as to Jewish lineage, and that has nothing to do with religious belief. Ignorant to treat Judaism as a religion alone; it just isn't. See, e.g., anti-Semites.

ALL THAT SAID- id love to hear Lea Michele play this role, whether shes jewish or not (i dont think she is? and i dont care)

[Penna2]

Posted: 6/25/22 at 9:35pm

Auggie27 said: "To give her the benefit of the doubt: she was apparently symptomatic with Covid, a respiratory infection after all. I’m no advocate for her performance or casting (saw a Wednesday matinee in June) but there’s no denying the challenge in returning to this vocally demanding role after having flu symptoms. Calling out the second show of a Saturday sounds like acceptance of an inability to deliver tonight."

Then the grownups in the room, if there are any, need to sit down with Beanie and her agent and her doctor and whomever else needs to be in on the conversation, to discuss her post-flu symptoms, energy level and general health and how this is affecting her participation in the show. Then they might be able to set up a schedule, which might also benefit Julie as an alternate instead of standby with a (relatively) fixed schedule and a pay increase. 

The fact that there is a party involved to maybe celebrate her birthday and new engagement doesn't help from a PR standpoint, though. Whatever goodwill Beanie may have with the rest of the cast and crew is likely diminishing as this sort of behavior continues. I'm sure they are thrilled for Julie and working with her, but this is disrespectful to all concerned.

Still hoping she leaves in July and is done with it. If this sort of thing continues, Lea Michelle will begin looking like a dream to work with.

Updated On: 6/25/22 at 09:35 PM

[Papi2013]

Posted: 6/25/22 at 10:00pm

TaffyDavenport said: "It's Pride weekend, so I'm sure there will be some disappointed gays there, but hopefully they'll give Julie a chance."

We are usually a very informed audience.  I am sure no one cared.. if anything they were thrilled to get Julie.

[UncleCharlie]

Posted: 6/25/22 at 10:33pm

PipingHotPiccolo said: "But i would like to correct the above. Judaism is a religion, in that it includes a set of beliefs and one can opt-in to those beliefs. But my DNA results are pretty clear (at least 50% of them are) as to Jewish lineage, and that has nothing to do with religious belief. Ignorant to treat Judaism as a religion alone; it just isn't. See, e.g., anti-Semites."

Your DNA results are pretty clear as to Jewish lineage and that has nothing to do with religious beliefs? What does Jewish lineage have to do with if not with religious beliefs? And how can a DNA test for someone's faith or the God they pray to? Please, educate me. I'll wait right here.

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 6/25/22 at 10:55pm

I'm not sure whats confusing about what I said, but sounds like you have some googling to do?

Are you really "waiting right here" to learn that my paternal genetic material is 100% Ashkenazi Jew, that this is a distinct genetic group (and that there are a few other such Jewish genetic groups?) That genetic reality has nothing to do, obviously, with whether I'm a practicing Jew or my religious beliefs... but you seem unaware of this scientific reality so, i dunno, look it up? 

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 6/25/22 at 11:47pm

Far be it from me to stop the Beanie Bashing, i know that animosity and sniping is what sustains some people in these parts...

apropos of nothing, genealogists today confirmed that Elvis Presley had Jewish ancestry. a meaningless silly factoid, but do people here think that means they discovered he went to synagogue? Yikes.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 6/26/22 at 1:23am

Penna2 said: "Calling out the second show of a Saturday sounds like acceptance of an inability to deliver tonight." Then the grownups in the room, if there are any, need to sit down with Beanie and her agent and her doctor and whomever else needs to be in on the conversation, to discuss her post-flu symptoms, energy level and general health and how this is affecting her participation in the show."

This. Stuff. Happens. Star developing vocal strain or fatigue is not uncommon in a musical, and a lot of times when the "grownups" DO meet to discuss said star's attendance or wish to do fewer shows a week, the verdict is that they should go on as normal and just call out when they need to (which sometimes averages once a week or even more). She's already got her exit date and I have no doubt Beanie herself would LIKE to do as many performances as possible.

So much has been made of Beanie's absences, yet I'm sure there are others missing as many or more performances than her this season. (Myles Frost dealing with his injury comes to mind.)

[alovingfan]

Posted: 6/26/22 at 1:49am

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "Penna2 said: "Calling out the second show of a Saturday sounds like acceptance of an inability to deliver tonight."Then the grownups in the room, if there are any, need to sit down with Beanie and her agent and her doctor and whomever else needs to be in on the conversation, to discuss her post-flu symptoms, energy level and general health and how this is affecting her participation in the show."

This. Stuff. Happens. Star developing vocal strain or fatigue is not uncommon in a musical, and a lot of times when the "grownups" DO meet to discuss said star's attendance or wish to do fewer shows a week, the verdict is that they should go on as normal and just call out when they need to (which sometimes averages once a week or even more). She's already got her exit date and I have no doubt Beanie herself would LIKE to do as many performances as possible.

So much has been made of Beanie's absences, yet I'm sure there are others missing as many or more performances than her this season. (Myles Frost dealing with his injury comes to mind.)"

Yeah but she is not liked in this show.  And even when she is there ..it is a struggle.  And because of her poorly received performance there is a a different kind of spotlight is on her. 

[Penna2]

Posted: 6/26/22 at 1:56am

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "Penna2 said: "Calling out the second show of a Saturday sounds like acceptance of an inability to deliver tonight."Then the grownups in the room, if there are any, need to sit down with Beanie and her agent and her doctor and whomever else needs to be in on the conversation, to discuss her post-flu symptoms, energy level and general health and how this is affecting her participation in the show."

This. Stuff. Happens. Star developing vocal strain or fatigue is not uncommon in a musical, and a lot of times when the "grownups" DO meet to discuss said star's attendance or wish to do fewer shows a week, the verdict is that they should go on as normal and just call out when they need to (which sometimes averages once a week or even more). She's already got her exit date and I have no doubt Beanie herself would LIKE to do as many performances as possible.

So much has been made of Beanie's absences, yet I'm sure there are others missing as many or more performances than her this season. (Myles Frost dealing with his injury comes to mind.)"

I'm aware that things happen - this appears to be an ongoing issue with Beanie (her weekend and 2 matinee absences before the covid were never explained).  So, yeah, I would think they would be more considerate of her health and, perhaps, create a more comfortable work environment for all concerned. If singing 8 shows a week is taking a toll on her - limit the shows she has to cover. A lot of people want to do a lot of things when their body is simply not up to it. This is when real injuries can take place.

I don't know who Myles Frost is. But if he has repeated injuries or vocal issues, then, perhaps the powers that be need to address how to help him heal whatever the issue might be. 

In any event, I was addressing the comment by Auggie27 about giving Beanie the benefit of the doubt about her absence with this particular performance, i.e., respiratory issues due to Covid infection. From what I read earlier here, she was taking the night off to go to a Pride party, so nothing to do with her voice at all.

Two different issues. 

 

[UncleCharlie]

Posted: 6/26/22 at 2:14am

PipingHotPiccolo said: "I'm not sure whats confusing about what I said, but sounds like you have some googling to do?

Are you really "waiting right here" to learn that my paternal genetic material is 100% Ashkenazi Jew, that this is a distinct genetic group (and that there are a few other such Jewish genetic groups?) That genetic reality has nothing to do, obviously, with whether I'm a practicing Jew or my religious beliefs... but you seem unaware of this scientific reality so, i dunno, look it up?"

Forgive me for questioning your comment. I am so, so sorry if you found that troubling or offensive.

I'm sure you are aware that in the Jewish religion, most believe you are or are not a Jew based on the religion of your mother, so if she is not Jewish, then you are not considered a Jew at all and if the requirement for a male role in Funny Girl called for a Jewish actor to play it, then you and your 100% Ashkenazi Jew paternal genetic material would not qualify. Ask any Rabbi. Either you are or you aren't. There's no 50% this and 30% that. And that's based on the beliefs you follow, not your DNA test results.

In point of fact, most of the world's Jewish population, an estimated 75-80% are descended from Ashkenazi Jews, who largely originated in the Germanic parts of ancient Europe and then migrated throughout the continent. A large part of the remainder are Sephardic Jews from Spain and the Iberian Peninsula. Because Jews, especially in Europe, suffered from isolation and persecution for so many centuries, they tended to stay together in a very tightknit community and that's the basis on which DNA testing operates, the same genetic markers from tightly knit families and genetic predispositions to certain diseases like Tay-Sachs and the knowledge that those communities were practicing Ashkenazi Jews allows a DNA test to proclaim you as descending from that community. There are no genetic markers for "Jew", only markers that show you descended from closely knit communities that were known to be practicing Jews.

And the DNA data is much less clear for Sephardic Jews for whom DNA tests have not been shown to be nearly as accurate in predicting whether someone descended from practicing Jews. The use of DNA to confirm someone's Jewishness is a very controversial topic and not at all a settled issue as you dismissively tried to imply. The use of DNA to try to confirm whether someone descended from families known to be Jewish 200 or 300 years ago does not in any way provide any meaningful insight as the whether a distant descendent considers themselves Jewish in 2022 which was the point of the conversation about hiring a Jewish actress to play Fanny Brice. If someone in 2022 doesn't go to Temple regularly if at all, doesn't keep kosher doesn't follow any of the practices and traditions that distinguishes those that practice Judaism from other religions, doesn't adhere to a commonly accepted set of religious beliefs, are they still a Jew? In 2022 with migration, extensive intermarriage and less adherence to ancient customs, what it means to be a Jew in 2022 is an active discussion topic. The use of DNA testing to determine Jewishness is controversial and not al all uniformly accepted as in any way meaningful. The best definition of whether someone is a Jew in 2022 is what they believe and what they practice, not what their DNA test shows.

Here are a few articles you might enjoy:

https://jweekly.com/2019/11/29/who-is-a-jew-dna-home-testing-trend-adds-new-wrinkle-to-age-old-debate/

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/jun/12/what-does-it-mean-to-be-genetically-jewish

Updated On: 6/26/22 at 02:14 AM

[Penna2]

Posted: 6/26/22 at 2:40am

UncleCharlie said: "PipingHotPiccolo said: "I'm not sure whats confusing about what I said, but sounds like you have some googling to do?


I'm sure you are aware that in the Jewish religion, most believe you are or are not a Jew based on the religion of your mother, so if she is not Jewish, then you are not considered a Jew at all and if the requirement for a male role in Funny Girl called for a Jewish actor to play it, then you and your 100% Ashkenazi Jew paternal genetic material would not qualify. 

Not entirely relevant to your conversation - although, I, for one, appreciate the dialogue and historical information. For what it's worth - Nicky Arnstein was not a Jew by the standards you have noted (what I always understood to be what determined who was Jewish and who was not). His father was a Jew, but his mother was a Dutch Episcopalian and he was raised in that religion. So no need for him to be portrayed by a Jewish actor. 

 

[UncleCharlie]

Posted: 6/26/22 at 2:54am

Penna2 said: "UncleCharlie said: "PipingHotPiccolo said: "I'm not sure whats confusing about what I said, but sounds like you have some googling to do?


I'm sure you are aware that in the Jewish religion, most believe you are or are not a Jew based on the religion of your mother, so if she is not Jewish, then you are not considered a Jew at all and if the requirement for a male role in Funny Girl called for a Jewish actor to play it, then you and your 100% Ashkenazi Jew paternal genetic material would not qualify.

Not entirely relevant to your conversation - although, I, for one, appreciate the dialogue and historical information. For what it's worth - Nicky Arnstein was not a Jew by the standards you have noted (what I always understood to be what determined who was Jewish and who was not). His father was a Jew, but his mother was a Dutch Episcopalian and he was raised in that religion. So no need for him to be portrayed by a Jewish actor."

Agreed. I wasn't thinking of his role specifically. I was just making my point using a generic example of a male role in the show that was thought to be Jewish and for which a Jewish actor was felt to be required. 

[PipingHotPiccolo]

Posted: 6/26/22 at 3:46am

UncleCharlie said: 

I'm sure you are aware that in the Jewish religion, most believe you are or are not a Jew based on the religion of your mother, so if she is not Jewish, then you are not considered a Jew at all and if the requirement for a male role in Funny Girl called for a Jewish actor to play it, then you and your 100% Ashkenazi Jew paternal genetic material would not qualify. Ask any Rabbi. Either you are or you aren't. There's no 50% this and 30% that. And that's based on the beliefs you follow, not your DNA test results.

In point of fact, most of the world's Jewish population, an estimated 75-80% are descended from Ashkenazi Jews, who largely originated in the Germanic parts of ancient Europe and then migrated throughout the continent. A large part of the remainder are Sephardic Jews from Spain and the Iberian Peninsula. Because Jews, especially in Europe, suffered from isolation and persecution for so many centuries, they tended to stay together in a very tightknit community and that's the basis on which DNA testing operates, the same genetic markers from tightly knit families and genetic predispositions to certain diseases like Tay-Sachs and the knowledge that those communities were practicing Ashkenazi Jews allows a DNA test to proclaim you as descending from that community. There are no genetic markers for "Jew", only markers that show you descended from closely knit communities that were known to be practicing Jews.

And the DNA data is much less clear for Sephardic Jews for whom DNA tests have not been shown to be nearly as accurate in predicting whether someone descended from practicing Jews. The use of DNA to confirm someone's Jewishness is a very controversial topic and not at all a settled issue as you dismissively tried to imply. The use of DNA to try to confirm whether someone descended from families known to be Jewish 200 or 300 years ago does not in any way provide any meaningful insight as the whether a distant descendent considers themselves Jewish in 2022 which was the point of the conversation about hiring a Jewish actress to play Fanny Brice. If someone in 2022 doesn't go to Temple regularly if at all, doesn't keep kosher doesn't follow any of the practices and traditions that distinguishes those that practice Judaism from other religions, doesn't adhere to a commonly accepted set of religious beliefs, are they still a Jew? In 2022 with migration, extensive intermarriage and less adherence to ancient customs, what it means to be a Jew in 2022 is an active discussion topic. The use of DNA testing to determine Jewishness is controversial and not al all uniformly accepted as in any way meaningful. The best definition of whether someone is a Jew in 2022 is what they believe and what they practice, not what their DNA test shows.

Yeah, i'm quite familiar with the halacha of judaism being passed via maternal line, and i'm not sure what that has to do with anything, unless you are saying (i) i disagree with the way jews define who is a jew, AND (ii) i reject the way science determines jewish ethnicity, and (iii) insist instead on my own "best" definition which is "do you practice judaism in some form"

in other words, youre simply declaring there is no ethnic/genetic component to it even as you share articles which confirm that there 100% is. are you suggesting the way DNA demonstrates my Jewish heritage is different than the way it identifies my Greek heritage or my African heritage? are those "groupings" somehow more significant? its a very modern form of bigotry (internalized by jewish people) to deny that non-practicing jews arent really jewish bc judaism is only a religion-- ie, an aetheist Jew is...what? how dare you? and to do this in the face of science is real chutzpah.

cast whoever you want in whatever you want. believe/practice however you want. but to wipe away the ethnic component (by sharing articles about the creepiness of "testing for jewish blood"--which has nothing to do with this conversation)... just ignorance on top of ignorance.

 

"I think the best definition of what a Jew is not what rabbis or scientists say, i know better!" would be pretty much the most ridiculous thing ive read here today but then, of course, theres the ongoing assault on Beanie to contend with, led by someone who apparently doesnt know who Myles Frost is as she rails on about Beanie across the street.

 

 

[WestEndGal]

Posted: 6/26/22 at 6:48am

I’d love to see a chart of attendance by lead actors in Broadway  shows over the years, and see if there’s a pattern of *star actors* being out more than ‘trained’ musical theatre performers. Personally I think there’s a tendency of people to focus on the *star actors* reliability which skews the actual numbers. For example,  I know he’s just had covid, but Hugh Jackman seems incredibly reliable. Kat McPhee barely missed a performance in 9/10 months of playing Jenna in NY and London. Ben Platt was a beast in DEH (from what I remember). And then there’s seasoned Broadway stars who have been known to miss lots of show, like  Karen Olivo and Laura Benanti. So I don’t necessarily think that having years of musical theatre training necessarily means you’ll be more reliable, although I’m sure it helps. 

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 6/26/22 at 7:35am

WestEndGal said: "I’d love to see a chart of attendance by lead actors in Broadway shows over the years, and see if there’s a pattern of *star actors* being out more than ‘trained’ musical theatre performers. Personally I think there’s a tendency of people to focus on the *star actors* reliability which skews the actual numbers. For example, I know he’s just had covid, but Hugh Jackman seems incredibly reliable. Kat McPhee barely missed a performance in 9/10 months of playing Jenna in NY and London. Ben Platt was a beast in DEH (from what I remember). And then there’s seasoned Broadway stars who have been known to miss lots of show, like Karen Olivo and Laura Benanti. So I don’t necessarily think that having years of musical theatre training necessarily means you’ll be more reliable, although I’m sure it helps."

Actors who did their entire Broadway runs without missing a single performance:

Carol Channing - HELLO, DOLLY!

Hugh Jackman - THE BOY FROM OZ

Antonio Banderas - NINE Revival

Pamela Anderson - CHICAGO Revival

[TaffyDavenport]

Posted: 6/26/22 at 8:10am

Ben Platt had perfect attendance for the first 5 months of DEH.

[TheQuibbler]

Posted: 6/26/22 at 9:20am

Penna2 said:  “I don't know who Myles Frost is. But if he has repeated injuries or vocal issues, then, perhaps the powers that be need to address how to help him heal whatever the issue might be.
 

From what I read earlier here, she was taking the night off to go to a Pride party, so nothing to do with her voice at all."

Myles Frost just won a Tony for playing Michael Jackson in MJ.

Also, I don’t think anyone was implying that’s why she called out. Someone mentioned that it was Pride weekend, so some folks attending the show may or not be disappointed with her absence. 

This thread is truly fascinating. 

[George in DC]

Posted: 6/26/22 at 9:39am

I know she was in  a play and not a musical, but mention must be made to the great Marian Seldes who  played the entire run of "Deathtrap" - all 1793 performances, without missing a single one.

[pippy1]

Posted: 6/26/22 at 10:52am

Any idea if she is back today? We are seeing it and my daughter would love to see the understudy. Either way, we are looking forward to seeing the show.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 6/26/22 at 11:30am

So much has been made of Beanie's absences, yet I'm sure there are others missing as many or more performances than her this season. (Myles Frost dealing with his injury comes to mind.)

Imagine comparing Tony Award Winner Myles Frost' injury (during work) and his medical absences months ago to a person who takes full weekends off to attend weddings, parties, family functions, and vacations.

Imagine. 

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 6/26/22 at 11:42am

BrodyFosse123 said: "WestEndGal said: "I’d love to see a chart of attendance by lead actors in Broadway shows over the years, and see if there’s a pattern of *star actors* being out more than ‘trained’ musical theatre performers. Personally I think there’s a tendency of people to focus on the *star actors* reliability which skews the actual numbers. For example, I know he’s just had covid, but Hugh Jackman seems incredibly reliable. Kat McPhee barely missed a performance in 9/10 months of playing Jenna in NY and London. Ben Platt was a beast in DEH (from what I remember). And then there’s seasoned Broadway stars who have been known to miss lots of show, like Karen Olivo and Laura Benanti. So I don’t necessarily think that having years of musical theatre training necessarily means you’ll be more reliable, although I’m sure it helps."

Actors who did their entire Broadway runs without missing a single performance:

Carol Channing - HELLO, DOLLY!

Hugh Jackman - THE BOY FROM OZ

Antonio Banderas - NINE Revival

Pamela Anderson - CHICAGO Revival"

And I believe Hugh would not have missed any Music Man performances yet were it not for COVID 2x. Also I believe Bette Midler only had one unscheduled absence during both her Hello Dolly runs.