2022-2023 Tony Award Eligibility Rulings Thread- Page 2

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 11:14am

Sauja said: "Feels surprising to me that they campaigned Hicks for Lead in Some Like it Hot. Feels like a solidly featured role to me."

I think the optics of this production are such that they want Sugar seen as a co-lead, equal to the gents. And when you compare her to Natasha Yvette Williams (who I hope will be nominated in Featured), there's no question Adrianna is a Lead.

[jkcohen626]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 11:16am

I think it's because they think (and I'd agree with them) that Natasha Yvette Williams is significant;y more likely to be nominated (and, following that logic, to win) than Hicks. 

[jkcohen626]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 11:29am

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "No shockers here, right? RIVERSIDE must be included in next round."

Justin Cooley, Dannielle Brookes, and Sharon D. Clarke come to mind, but they really could have gone either way, so not really a "shocker." 

Not related to your question but, from a nom/win likelihood perspective, it is probably the right move for all three of them. 

[Tag]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 12:42pm

Soutra Gilmour and Andrzej Goulding will be considered jointly eligible in the Best Scenic Design of a Musical category for their work on & Juliet.

Well Soutra gets the short end of the stick there.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 12:50pm

Good to see that KPOP is indeed eligible despite its abrupt closing. I’d still love to see it represented somewhere, like Helen Park for her score, especially considering the small number of original musical scores this season.

Sharon D Clarke in featured is consistent with previous rulings on the character, so not that big of a surprise.

These rulings need to be more specific about the gendered categories. This doesn’t really clarify which category J. Harrison Ghee is eligible in, although I assume they will be considered in the Leading Actor category.

[jacobsnchz14]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 12:51pm

I'm still curious re J. Harrison Ghee and the optics... could the show petition Ghee to be in either category and let nominators decide? Or is it strictly Ghee and Borle in Actor and Hicks in Actress, or vice versa?

[Jeff Tupolski]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 1:01pm

With the talk of Clarke, I really never got why there was ever a push for her in lead. Linda is no more of a leading role than Biff.

[Nicticorax]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 1:05pm

The Broadway.com article states that Ghee will be considered for the “best actor” category, and that the producers consulted them about which category they’d prefer.

I still think it’s only a matter of time before a nonbinary performer refuses to be shunted in to one of the gendered categories. 

[MayAudraBlessYou2]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 2:19pm

HeyMrMusic said: "Good to see thatKPOPis indeed eligible despite its abrupt closing. I’d still love to see it represented somewhere, like Helen Park for her score, especially considering the small number of original musical scores this season."

KPOP was always going to be eligible. The only ways in which a show would not be eligible is if 1.) The show closed before playing a full week of performances. This is what happened to "The Performers" which only made it to show 6 of their first week. You have to at least get 8 performances in. Or 2.) The production decides not to enter the competition and thus does not fill out the necessary paper work or invite the nominators. This was the case with the recent "Sunday in the Park With George" revival. 

I don't expect to see KPOP on the nominations list outside of Choreography and Lighting Design however. Score already has Kimberly Akimbo and Some Like it Hot as locks. Based on composer track record, we can assume New York New York and Bad Cinderella are also pretty safe for a nomination unless they are total disasters. 5th slot could go to Shucked, which will be fresher in folks' minds (and we've seen that they aren't against nominating underscoring for plays if they arent feeling a musical, so Leopoldsadt could even have an outside shot).

[JSquared2]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 2:28pm

jacobsnchz14 said: "I'm still curious re J. Harrison Ghee and the optics... could the show petition Ghee to be in either category and let nominators decide? Or is it strictly Ghee and Borle in Actor and Hicks in Actress, or vice versa?"

 

Ghee has already addressed this decision.

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/broadway-star-j-harrison-ghee-drag-is-such-a-tool-of-freedom

 

 

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 2:48pm

MayAudraBlessYou2 said: "HeyMrMusic said: "Good to see thatKPOPis indeed eligible despite its abrupt closing. I’d still love to see it represented somewhere, like Helen Park for her score, especially considering the small number of original musical scores this season."

KPOP was always going to be eligible. The only ways in which a show would not be eligible is if 1.) The show closed before playing a full week of performances. This is what happened to "The Performers" which only made it to show 6 of their first week. You have to at least get 8 performances in. Or 2.) The production decides not to enter the competition and thus does not fill out the necessary paper work or invite the nominators. This was the case with the recent "Sunday in the Park With George" revival.

I don't expect to see KPOP on the nominations list outside of Choreography and Lighting Design however. Score already has Kimberly Akimbo and Some Like it Hot as locks. Based on composer track record, we can assume New York New York and Bad Cinderella are also pretty safe for a nomination unless they are total disasters. 5th slot could go to Shucked, which will be fresher in folks' minds (and we've seen that they aren't against nominating underscoring for plays if they arent feeling a musical, so Leopoldsadt could even have an outside shot)."

With very few performances, I was wondering if all the nominators even got a chance to see it. It’s not that unfathomable of an idea or question. And yes, the show has a very outside shot, but a person can dream. If the upcoming cast recording gains traction, you never know. I’d rather see fresh talent like Helen Park be recognized than a mediocre ALW score (hypothetically, I haven’t actually heard ALW’s score).

[quizking101]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 2:48pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "Sauja said: "Feels surprising to me that they campaigned Hicks for Lead in Some Like it Hot. Feels like a solidly featured role to me."

I think the optics of this production are such that they want Sugar seen as a co-lead, equal to the gents. And when you compare her to Natasha Yvette Williams (who I hope will be nominated in Featured), there's no question Adrianna is a Lead."

I feel like the strongest cases to be made for SLIH’s acting nods are for Ghee, del Aguila, and Williams - Hicks does not rise to their level - and has challenges from the arguably stronger Clark, Luna, Courtney, and Bareilles, not that mention what can be anticipated from Uzele, Genao, Diamond, Ashford and Soo (Camelot)

[bdn223]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 3:33pm

MayAudraBlessYou2 said: "HeyMrMusic said: "Good to see thatKPOPis indeed eligible despite its abrupt closing. I’d still love to see it represented somewhere, like Helen Park for her score, especially considering the small number of original musical scores this season."

KPOP was always going to be eligible. The only ways in which a show would not be eligible is if 1.) The show closed before playing a full week of performances. This is what happened to "The Performers" which only made it to show 6 of their first week. You have to at least get 8 performances in. Or 2.) The production decides not to enter the competition and thus does not fill out the necessary paper work or invite the nominators. This was the case with the recent "Sunday in the Park With George" revival.

I don't expect to see KPOP on the nominations list outside of Choreography and Lighting Design however. Score already has Kimberly Akimbo and Some Like it Hot as locks. Based on composer track record, we can assume New York New York and Bad Cinderella are also pretty safe for a nomination unless they are total disasters. 5th slot could go to Shucked, which will be fresher in folks' minds (and we've seen that they aren't against nominating underscoring for plays if they arent feeling a musical, so Leopoldsadt could even have an outside shot)."

New York, New York may not be eligible for Best Score as its recycling the film's score. It will be very much dependent on how much additional material is added for the stage adaptation. The film's score had 23 songs, with 11 being orchestral/underscore, and 12 being sung. Disney adaptations are able to get away with this because the original films typically only have 4-8 songs, with 8-15 being added for the stage adaptation. If I remember correctly Newsies barely passed the 50.1% threshold, and there was consternation about should voters be told what portions of the score they are allowed to consider when voting. 

At this point though I think the best comparison we would have is 2013 production of Rogers and Hammerstein's Cinderella, where the score was not deemed eligible. As from interviews Lin Manuel Miranda has said he only wrote lyrics for a song or 2 for New York New York, so we have to presume as Ebb passed away in 2004, most additions to the score will be trunk songs that will likely not count towards the original material quota. I know some may beg to disagree about the trunk songs point, but the man died nearly 20 years ago, so its hard to make a case that these trunk songs were written originally specifically for THIS stage adaption of New York New York. I would love be proven wrong, but I don't see how producers will be able to state the show has an original score when asked the following question by the nominating committee:

"Does the score for the Production contain only original music and lyrics written for this Production? If not, please approximate the percentage of material that is newly written for this Production and the percentage drawn from other sources" 

 

[EDSOSLO858]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 3:53pm

Nicticorax said: "The Broadway.com article states that Ghee will be considered for the “best actor” category, and that the producers consulted them about which category they’d prefer.

I still think it’s only a matter of time before a nonbinary performer refuses to be shunted in to one of the gendered categories."

Justin David Sullivan (of & Juliet) has just withdrawn from Tony consideration, rather than compete in a gendered category, according to the NYT.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/01/theater/tonys-justin-david-sullivan-and-juliet.html?smid=url-share

Updated On: 2/1/23 at 03:53 PM

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 4:04pm

quizking101 said: "I feel like the strongest cases to be made for SLIH’s acting nods are for Ghee, del Aguila, and Williams - Hicks does not rise to their level - and has challenges from the arguably stronger Clark, Luna, Courtney, and Bareilles, not that mention what can be anticipated from Uzele, Genao, Diamond, Ashford and Soo (Camelot)"

Yes, to me there are 4 Best Actress locks so far based on what I've seen –– Clark, Bareilles, Diamond, Courtney (in that order). Which means there could be 1, 2, or 3 spots remaining (oh how I hate that tiebreaker rule; limit it to 5 per category), with about 7 other ladies vying for those slots and POSSIBLY Adrienne Warren, too, depending on how ROOM is classified.

Actor is so weak by comparison; Ben Platt should handily win, with likely noms for Will Swenson and J.H. Ghee. Christian Borle, Josh Groban, Brian D'Arcy James, Colton Ryan, Andrew Burnap, Jordan Dobson, and [does Shucked have a lead?] will fight for the other slots. We shouldn't count out Borle yet, if the nominators like that show it could very well get 2 noms considering the weakness of the field.

[JSquared2]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 4:10pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "

Actor is so weak by comparison; Ben Platt should handily win, with likely noms for Will Swenson andJ.H. Ghee. Christian Borle, Josh Groban, Brian D'Arcy James, Colton Ryan, Andrew Burnap, Jordan Dobson, and[does Shucked have a lead?] will fight for the other slots. We shouldn't count out Borle yet, if the nominators like that show it could very well get 2 noms considering the weakness of the field."

 

Strongly disagree.  Best Actor is Ghee's to lose. 

 

[bdn223]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 4:11pm

EDSOSLO858 said: "Nicticorax said: "The Broadway.com article states that Ghee will be considered for the “best actor” category, and that the producers consulted them about which category they’d prefer.

I still think it’s only a matter of time before a nonbinary performer refuses to be shunted in to one of the gendered categories."

Justin David Sullivan (of& Juliet)has just withdrawn from Tony consideration, rather than compete in a gendered category, according to the NYT.

"

No hate to Justin and I admire them for using their platform to bring attention to their cause, but also its was highly unlikely they were going to be nominated in the first place, so pulling their name from consideration was not much of a sacrifice. I do wonder what Alex Newell will do at this point, because if they abstain from a consideration that will give this much more of a push for change next season, and if not I expect the status quo to be maintained.

Based on the Theater Wing's response it sounds like they might consider adding a more general best performance by a non-binary performer category instead of removing merging the actor and actress categories as their biggest sticking point seems to be they don't wanting to make it harder for performers to win an award by simply merging the categories. 

Updated On: 2/1/23 at 04:11 PM

[chrishuyen]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 4:14pm

I could even see them petitioning Jordan Dobson for featured, though I suppose that category might be more competitive with Justin Cooley, the whole slew of Into the Woods actors, Alex Joseph Grayson, and maybe a few people from Sweeney or Shucked.  Don't know if he'd be likely to get a nom, but Casey Likes is also a possibility for leading.  Though of the ones mentioned, I think the likely other two nominations would go to Josh Groban and Brian D'Arcy James (with Christian Borle as a possible tie/runner up).

I haven't seen A Beautiful Noise and I haven't really read that many reviews for it either, but is Will Swenson really a lock?  Or is it more of the tendency of the Tonys to favor the lead in a bio musical?

[Jeff Tupolski]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 4:36pm

I don’t think Actor in a Musical looks weak at all. Even if some of the upcoming contenders flop, I feel like we’ve already seen enough strong performances for a solid lineup anyway. I also don’t see why Platt would handily win. There’s already a lot of love for Ghee, and Groban and Burnap will be coming into the race with great showcase roles.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 4:41pm

The simplest way to do genderless categories but not halve the number of nominees would seem to be 10 Lead nominees, 10 Featured nominees, and 2 winners per category.

Separating Best Performance in a Revival vs Best Performance in a New Work could be another way to do it, but then some seasons that means one category is going to be significantly stronger than the other.

Of course, if that meant 3-4 male actors won awards in one year, that would cause an uproar and a press cycle that nobody wants to deal with.

[bdn223]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 4:51pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "The simplest way to do genderless categories but not halve the number of nominees would seem to be 10 Lead nominees, 10 Featured nominees, and 2 winners per category.

Separating Best Performance in a Revival vs Best Performance in a New Work could be another way to do it, but then some seasons that means one category is going to be significantly stronger than the other.

Of course, if that meant 3-4 male actors won awards in one year, that would cause an uproar and a press cycle that nobody wants to deal with."

The 2 winners per category obviously isn't going to fly. Best Revival vs Original performance could work, but at this point as the Theater Wing clearly doesn't want to make it any harder for someone to win, it honestly might come down to creating an optional category for Best performance by a Non-Binary performer, with the up or down voting rules if there is only 1 nominee. 

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 5:01pm

Nicticorax said: "The Broadway.com article states that Ghee will be considered for the “best actor” category, and that the producers consulted them about which category they’d prefer.

I still think it’s only a matter of time before a nonbinary performer refuses to be shunted in to one of the gendered categories."

Well there you go: 

& Juliet's Justin David Sullivan Declines Tony Award Eligibility, Critiques Gendered Performance Categories

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 5:01pm

I don't ever see them doing Actor/Actress/Nonbinary; it could be perceived as quite "othering," and bad optics if nominators didn't deem them worthy (even if, as with &Juliet, their performance didn't deserve a nom). Some type of Gender Neutral category is the way forward, but nobody has successfully figured that out in ANY major awards body.

[emilyfaye48]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 5:15pm

I think the Brit Awards nominations this year are all the evidence we need for not combining the male and female categories. I'd be fine with them adding another category that is open to both sexes. Erasing distinctions by sex is just misogynistic and hurts women.

[Scarlet Leigh]

Posted: 2/1/23 at 5:21pm

I am personally in the camp of splitting the performance categories in the style of the Golden Globes rather then top two winners. Split the acting awards between with "dramatic" and "comedic" performances. I think of it like the masks of comedy and tragedy. And yes, shows that are on the line between the two would need to make a case for themselves for one or the other but 1.) you still see the same amount of performers recognized overall and 2.) it's far easier to hold two comedic performances or two dramatic performances against one another when voting for 'the best' then it is to hold a fantastic comedy performance against an equal fantastic dramatic one.