2022-2023 Tony Award Eligibility Rulings Thread — Page 4

I would love it if we could acknowledge that biological sex and gender identity are not the same thing. If a person is non-binary in their gender identity and being recognized as biologically male or female is going to be deeply upsetting to them, then maybe the societal construct of gender is not the issue.

I am fine with the inevitable move to having award shows do away with categories based on biological sex (which is what they are based on, since gender theory came long after most of these awards were created), but mostly because sex/gender shouldn’t matter in 99% of circumstances outside a medical setting.

1. Best performer in a dramatic leading role: Musical
2. Best performer in a comedic leading role: Musical
3. Best featured performer in a dramatic leading role: Musical
4. Best featured performer in a comedic leading role: Musical
5. Best performer in a dramatic leading role: Play
6. Best performer in a comedic leading role: Play
7. Best featured performer in a dramatic leading role: Play
8. Best featured performer in a comedic leading role: Play

There you go. 8 categories, 8 acting awards. Easy. No fuss, no muss.

Now let’s add a ninth and tenth category:

9. Best Ensemble in a musical

10. Best ensemble in a play

Updated On: 2/2/23 at 02:53 AM

Luminaire2 said: "

1. Best performer in a dramatic leading role: Musical
2. Best performer in a comedic leading role: Musical
3. Best featured performer in a dramatic leading role:Musical
4. Best featured performer in a comedic leading role: Musical
5. Best performer in a dramatic leading role: Play
6. Best performer in a comedic leading role: Play
7. Best featured performer in a dramatic leading role:Play
8. Best featured performer in a comedic leading role:Play

There you go. 8 categories, 8 acting awards. Easy. No fuss, no muss.

Now let’s add a ninth and tenth category:

9. Best Ensemble in a musical

10. Best ensemble in a play"

Maybe in 50 years (optimistically) that would work, but not today. There's too much misogyny on Broadway and the world in general.

What happens if 80% of the play nominees are male for several years in a row? (Most 20th century plays have more good roles for men than women.) Seems to me like that would create a fuss, and deservingly so.

My current favorite solution: any performer (not just those who are non-binary) can choose between actor, actress, or a new gender neutral category. Not perfect by any means, but non-binary people won't have to be forced to make a decision on their gender and will be less likely to be overlooked. But this also prevents men being the only ones to win featured performer in a play for a decade in a row.

Caring about their thoughts and speculating on what the Tonys can do about it can co-exist.

Unlike most award shows, the Tonys honor - and most importantly publicize - productions that usually still ongoing, so I do think it's a unique situation where producers have to decide how to campaign, which would only get complicated if their leads or featured performers are pitted against each other. (Imagine Katrina Lenk and Tony Shalhoub having to compete not only against other shows, but themselves?) And if producers think they might cancel each other out, would they even bother spending money campaigning?

I don't think the answer is less awards, but some way to honor an additional category.

I think the reality is, there are going to be issues however this problem is fixed. If we go to gender neutral categories, there will be outrage whenever it's 8 men and 2 women who get nominated. If we go to male and female categories but add a non-gender specific one, there's going to be outrage when there aren't enough performances to fill it or the Tonys decide none of those performances are worthy in a given year so eliminate the category. And to earlier points, we already see lobbying for two male leads or two female leads in a show to be split between leading and featured so both could win. Now imagine when producers are required to pit both their male and female leads against each other (not to mention the backstage drama that will undoubtedly occur when the producer decides to champion one over the other).

To be clear, there absolutely is a problem with the categories as they are now and I'm in no way advocating against any change happening. It needs to and it will. It's just a little more complicated than simply going to gender neutral categories, unfortunately.

The Distinctive Baritone said: "Yes, but here's the thing though: if people want to make the argument that gender is an irrelevant social construct to the point that they want gender-neutral acting award categories, shouldn't the number of people who identify as men vs. the number of people who identify as women (and the numbers of people who identify as neither/both etc.) not matter? If the awards are going to be gender neutral, they need to be so both in theory and in practice."

Completely agree that it shouldn't make a difference. I'm just not at all convinced that we're there yet as a society (I'd love to be proven wrong). If you look at the Oscars this year, for instance, there was outrage over having 5 male Best Director nominees, even though it was pretty widely considered those were the 5 best directors of the year. I just feel like we'd see the same thing if we went to gender-neutral categories. I agree it's counterintuitive to the idea of gender-neutral categories to get upset over something like that, but I still feel like a lot of people would (but again, hopefully I'm way off and will be proven wrong by this).

I believe every Tony category should be subjected to better standards to keep the awards competitive and truly an honor. A category should only exist in any given season if there are a specific number of people eligible, and that number should be higher than the maximum number of nominations allowed in a category. You always hear, “it was an honor just to be nominated,” but it’s not really an honor if you’re nominated just because you’re eligible. Aaron Tveit won Male Leading Actor In a Musical in his category in 2021, yet how could he be the best when he was the only one? That’s not an honor, that’s dumb luck. I get that Covid was an issue, and it was important to return to normalcy, etc., but moving forward there should be higher standards. So, if they want to define acting categories by gender, and there are a specific number of non-binary actors eligible to make a category competitive, then it seems equitable and common sense for that category to exist that year.

So what do you do if the role itself is nonbinary? Both Some Like It Hot and & Juliet deal with trans/nonbinary storylines for a character. And for shows like Once on This Island, gender was more of a handwavey construct for Papa Ge and Asaka since they were technically genderswapped in terms of the people playing them, but not quite acknowledged as such in the story.

Chase Miller said: "Can't there just be an asterisk next to a genderless person noting that they don't identify as either man or woman? For example:

• Best performanceby a Featured Actor in a Musical:
  • Cleavant Derricks–Dreamgirlsas James Early
    • Obba Babatundé–Dreamgirlsas C.C. White
    • David Alan Grier *This person does not identify as male or female.–The Firstas Jackie Robinson *
    • Bill Hutton –Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoatas Joseph

"

This is like asking why black people didn’t just paint their faces white when they wanted to ride in the front of the bus.

Chase Miller said: "I don't think it makes sense to add an entire new category for Non-Binary performances."

Why? You sound like a dumb bigot posting something like this with no reasoning.

QueenTwinnied said: "Chase Miller said: "I don't think it makes sense to add an entire new category for Non-Binary performances."

Why? You sound like a dumb bigot posting something like this with no reasoning."

There just aren't anywhere close to enough performances to warrant this (yet). Like this year we have one big leading performance and two big featured performances (I'm assuming Alex Newell's role in Shucked is featured), all in musicals, and that's it. Maybe some of the 1776 actors playing minor parts, but they are all playing Cis characters even if some of them were non-binary and none of those are really parts that should be in contention for Tonys (nothing against the actors at all, they're just very small parts).

Then, if it becomes a general gender neutral category that anyone can opt into, it immediately becomes a whole tony politics thing where producers try to play the categories because they think they have a better shot in over the other. It's gross, but you just know it's what will happen.

QueenTwinnied said: "Chase Miller said: "I don't think it makes sense to add an entire new category for Non-Binary performances."

Why? You sound like a dumb bigot posting something like this with no reasoning."



Ok.

Mr. Wormwood said: "Just out of curiosity - in this scenario, would the drama/comedy be categorized by performance or by show (as they are for Emmys). Like, would someone nominated for Thenardier in Les Mis be nominated in comedy or drama since it's a comedic role in a dramatic show?

Agreed about the ensembles though. That should have happened years ago along with Best Original Song."





I would assume it would be by show (ala Emmys or Golden Globes), but that's an interesting point/suggestion. And there would be all sorts of questions about what's a comedy, what's a drama, etc.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I actually hate the thought of a Tony for Best Ensemble. While I don't at all argue that the ensemble often gets overlooked when they're often the hardest-working people in the show, I just feel if we start to give Tonys to every single person in a 15-member ensemble every year, it's going to really lessen the value of the phrase "Tony winner". It would essentially be giving out 20+ acting Tonys every year. But I do wish there was another way to honor ensembles more (one thought I've heard propose is having a Best Ensemble award but giving the award to the casting director).

Updated On: 2/3/23 at 10:04 AM