Anthony Rapp: Kevin Spacey Made A Sexual Advance Toward Me When I Was 14- Page 7

[Anna Lan]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 4:53pm

SporkGoddess said: "I work with sexual assault survivors and just want to say that Rapp's version of events meets criteria for a traumatic event as we would define it when diagnosing PTSD. It doesn't matter if he got away--the threat was there. I've worked with people who have similar stories where they got away, and often the horror comes from 1. the fact that someone would try to do that in the first place and 2. the "what ifs" that you play over and over again in your mind. And then there's the fact that they often tell themselves, oh, it wasn't a big deal, I should really just get over this. Saying "well it wasn't rape" isn't helpful for that reason. And I'd argue it was attempted rape. As was pointed out elsewhere in the thread, Rapp had to run away. Spacey didn't let him go. There's also the coercion/power differentialaspect and the fact that Rapp couldn't legally consent, anyway."

As a survivor, this all rings completely true to my experiences. She knows. You never stop second-guessing how you could have handled things better and gotten out with less trauma. That's a bad road to go down, but it's very hard to not go there.

[Soaring29]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 4:56pm

orangeskittles said: "Kad said: "...am I the only one whodoesn'tfind it odd that a teenager- particularly one who has been working professionally in the business for several years at that point-would be unaccompanied at a gathering of other professionals? Especially thirty years ago?"

No, you're not. 1986 parenting is not 2017 parenting, and a professional teenage child actor is not the same as Suzy Sophomore Smalltown, who has to come straight home after soccer practice and call her mom at work from the landline. The kids in Annie went to Studio 54, for god's sake. Drew Barrymore was already snorting coke in 1986. Kids today are claiming Stranger Things is unrealistic because the parents have no idea where their kids were all day. Times have changed. Nothing about this party scenario was outlandish for mid-80s, except that the participants are famous.



Soaring29 said: "Personally, I believe Rapp's story here, but I'd caution those who say we should automatically believe the victim- nobody knows if the person is a victim or not until being able to weigh all the facts. That's why we have juries/judges. Although I understand it is necessary in order to avoid kangaroo courts, I don't necessarily believe in the "innocent until proven guilty" principle, nor do I believe in "guilty until proven innocent" - it should be a matter of fact for a person to be able make up their own mind after hearing the evidence,to not have any pre-conceived notion at all,and not let their emotions and biases overwhelm them. Assuming anything is contrary to the interests of justice. There are indeed false reports of sex crimes out there and falsely accused people whose lives are drastically affected by them- no one should assume anything until they are able to weigh both sides. Do not automatically assume anything until you know all the facts. And this goes for automatically believing the accused as well. As hard as it is, one has to put aside their personal feelings and be objective."

Soaring29, just because you personally weren't aware doesn't mean everyone elseare automatically assuming without the facts.

You think Netflix would have suspended production on a show if they thought it was only one person's 30 year old claims? They know it's not. Steve C. knows it's not. The Old Vic knows it's not. A few weeks ago, a journalist in Boston said on Twitter that Kevin Spacey assaulted a loved one of hers and it flew under the radar.

One person making an accusation with no proof is one thing. One person making an accusation and dozens of people saying "I know someone too!" is another."

Can you clarify what you mean when you say "Soaring29, just because you personally weren't aware doesn't mean everyone elseare automatically assuming without the facts"? 

Yes, I can believe that Netflix would do that- This Weinstein scandal has truly rocked Hollywood to it's core, people are starting to realize how prevalent of a problem this and are raging at Hollywood for not wanting this stuff to come out and looking the other way. They don't want anything to do with it, so they're washing their hands of the whole thing. Nobody in Hollywood wants to be seen as complicit with anything Weinstein or Spacey or anyone else in Hollywood is accused of. So they will take drastic, prompt action to distance themselves from Spacey as soon as possible. 

[Soaring29]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 5:06pm

mariel9 said: "Since false accusations are incredibly rare, and disbelieving victims has enabled people like Weinstein and Spacey (and the regular non-famous abusers everywhere), I'm gonna keep believing victims. I will do so based on the evidence that false accusations are rare, that men get away with abusive behavior every day, and that victims are chronically disbelieved, second-guessed, and blamed. So please don't mischaracterize that as an emotional, biased response. (Ladies, so emotional, amiright?)"

Every case is different, there are no hard and fast rules. And one statistic(which is actually contested) should not have wide-spreading power over deciding the guilt and innocence of one person. Going in with a pre-conceived notion without weighing all of the facts   is wrong and  believing that those who accuse someone of a sex crime are  always telling the truth, that false accusations  of sex crimes are  a one in a million occurrence,    and  that all accusations of this nature should automatically  be believed  because of terrible mishandling of the problems in the past is  not right. 

 

[vanbrig]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 5:15pm

Honestly, with the way season 5 ended, it wouldn't be that hard for Netflix to write Spacey out of the show. I don't think they could continue the show for several more seasons without Frank because I imagine it would quickly lose momentum (it's lost some already honestly), but for the final season, it really wouldn't be hard at all. Seems like the best solution to me: do a few rewrites, kick him out, and let everyone else finish their work/wrap up the story-lines with the rest of the characters

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 5:17pm

vanbrig said: "Honestly, with the way season 5 ended, it wouldn't be that hard for Netflix to write Spacey out of the show."

I would be thrilled if season 6 focused entirely on Claire. Frank sucks.

[vanbrig]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 5:20pm

Couldn't agree more, BC. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 5:21pm

This is not simply a barren accusation; you have to marry it with the non-denial. Not to mention that public opinion is not held to the beyond a reasonable doubt standard that would apply if we were sending Frank, err Kevin... to the pokey.

[Anna Lan]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 5:37pm

HogansHero said: "This is not simply a barren accusation; you have to marry it with the non-denial. Not to mention that public opinion is not held to the beyond a reasonable doubt standard that would apply if we were sending Frank, err Kevin... to the pokey."

Legal standards are one thing. They depend on timing and how much the people involved are willing to blame victims, speak up, and be dragged for all to see because that's what happens every time. Enough evidence you know somebody is a horrid person is another matter entirely. Screw that asshole is not a legal standard, but I say it when it seems clear somebody has no respect for consent. 

[Margo319]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 5:48pm

A Canadian in NYC said: "Margo319 said: "
"He pinned a 14 year old boy down on a bed hoping to get sex out of him"

You don't know that. No one does. Sorry. And, again,that IS NOT RAPE. LOOK IT UP IN THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURAL LAW BOOK."

I did not say it was rape. So I really don't need to look anything up.

What do you think happened? He laid the boy down on the bed - situated himself on top of him in hope of some cuddles?? a hug?? Get serious. He had one thing in mind and was looking for asign of compliance - which he did not get. Being drunk is not an excuse. Ever. He was 14 for goodness sakes. Put yourself in that position for just one minute. It's beyond frightening. Rapp has been very courageous to come forward with this and we'll just wait to see if more surface."

It does not matter what I think happened.  It occurred more than 30 years ago, it has now come out and he is suffering the consequences.  I HAVE BEEN in that position (most women you know have been sexually harassed or assaulted just an FYI, and I fought off the person who put his body on top of mine.  I don't care "what he wanted" or "what could have been", I reported him, he suffered consequences and I moved on with my life.  

 

[A Canadian in NYC]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 8:59pm

Margo319 said: "A Canadian in NYC said: "Margo319 said: "
"He pinned a 14 year old boy down on a bed hoping to get sex out of him"

You don't know that. No one does. Sorry. And, again,that IS NOT RAPE. LOOK IT UP IN THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURAL LAW BOOK."

I did not say it was rape. So I really don't need to look anything up.

What do you think happened? He laid the boy down on the bed - situated himself on top of him in hope of some cuddles?? a hug?? Get serious. He had one thing in mind and was looking for asign of compliance - which he did not get. Being drunk is not an excuse. Ever. He was 14 for goodness sakes. Put yourself in that position for just one minute. It's beyond frightening. Rapp has been very courageous to come forward with this and we'll just wait to see if more surface."

It does not matter what I think happened. It occurred more than 30 years ago, it has now come out and he is suffering the consequences. I HAVE BEEN in that position (most women you know have been sexually harassed or assaulted just an FYI, and I fought off the person who put his body on top of mine. I don't care "what he wanted" or "what could have been", I reported him, he suffered consequences and I moved on with my life.

"

I HAVE BEEN in that position as well.  I couldn't push him off me.. I'm glad you could.

and thank you for the FYI - I'm so much more educated now.

 

[Kad]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 9:01pm

Rapp spoke about this incident with Spacey as early as 2001 with the Advocate- which redacted Spacey’s name.

https://www.advocate.com/media/2017/10/31/why-did-advocate-redact-kevin-spaceys-name-2001?utm_source=ADVFB&utm_medium=ORG

[South Florida]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 9:26pm

Sad that so many are into this story.  Another in a long line of sexual predators, true or not, it seems like the worst kind of speculative crap.

 

[gypsy101]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 10:16pm

clearly parenting in the 80’s wasn’t anything compared to what it is now, he never should have been at that party by himself. and wasn’t the city a much more dangerous place then?? it just seems like letting your kids run rampant in the big city and attending adult parties is a recipe for disaster.

[Anna Lan]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 10:29pm

The 80s were different in terms of child rearing. I say this as somebody who grew up then. Kids were allowed to do a lot more things by themselves then than they are now. I walked home from school just under a mile when I was six (over a mile and you got a bus, and I could see the bus stop from my house, but I was inside the circle), let myself in the house and watched afternoon tv until my parents got home. This was normal then as strange as it sounds. Today it's child abuse.

Those 80s parents weren't far out of the norm then. You can certainly say the norm was not protecting kids enough and their parents should have done better, but the standards were in different places. 

 

ETA: This does not excuse anything that happened. Do not mistake this context for any form of excuse for such behavior. Sexual behavior with a child is abhorrent.

Updated On: 10/31/17 at 10:29 PM

[gypsy101]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 10:32pm

a six year old having to walk a mile really is terrible, and also dangerous

[Keepin' Ya Honest!!]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 10:42pm

Keepin ya honest!

 

I tried to bump that thread, but BWW locked it.  Smirk.

 

 

[haterobics]

Posted: 11/1/17 at 12:57am

Keepin' Ya Honest!! said: "Keepin ya honest!"

More like keeping it off-topic, since this has nothing to do with James Barbour.

[UncleCharlie]

Posted: 11/1/17 at 1:13am

haterobics said: "Keepin' Ya Honest!! said: "Keepin ya honest!"

More like keeping it off-topic, since this has nothing to do withJames Barbour."

Caesar's Palace sports book in Vegas just posted the opening odds on who the sock account Keepin' Ya Honest belongs to.

[SweetLips]

Posted: 11/1/17 at 2:09am

And now his brother[Spacey], who is a Rod Stewart impersonator, claims he was raped repeatedly by their father who was a Nazi and their Mother knew, says our local paper.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 11/1/17 at 4:39am

Seperite said: "So, if I'm understanding you correctly, GeorgeandDot, you're of the opinion that Rapp should be unequivocally supported, and thatit's entirely appropriate for Spacey's career, reputation, and life to be destroyed, because Rapp alleged that Spacey picked him up and fell on him more than 30 years ago? Are you serious?

Please do not denigrate me by characterizing my opinion as "blaming the victim." Michael Jackson, Jerry Sandusky, Bill Cosby...these people and others of their ilkshould burn in hell. But Kevin Spacey? To this point, all we know is that in one isolated incident, 30+ years ago, he got drunk, picked up a kid, and fell on him. And for that, his life will be utterly destroyed.

Does that not make you nauseous?"

Surely by now someone has told you you were accused of "victim blaming" in part because you are completely misrepresenting what Rapp recalls (something not even Spacey denies). Go back and read the interview.

[BJR]

Posted: 11/1/17 at 8:01am

The Old Vic's response seems appropriate, going so far as to set up a confidential email account for former employees to report incidents.

London’s Old Vic Theater ‘Deeply Dismayed’ by Allegations Against Kevin Spacey

 

[Anna Lan]

Posted: 11/1/17 at 8:43am

gypsy101 said: "a six year old having to walk a mile really is terrible, and also dangerous"

I look back on it and boggle that this was considered totally normal at the time. I am aware of everything that could have gone wrong. It didn't. I knew the way, and thought nothing of it at the time. Sometimes friends came home with me and we played until parents got home and made dinner. The world was very different then.

I provide this for context, not because it was ever okay to sexually abuse children. The idea that the parents were neglectful by letting Rapp out alone at that age is the thing I'm saying should be viewed in context. It wasn't odd back then. We know a lot better now. 

[Keepin' Ya Honest!]

Posted: 11/1/17 at 10:31am

UncleCharlie said: "haterobics said: "Keepin' Ya Honest!! said: "Keepin ya honest!"

More like keeping it off-topic, since this has nothing to do withJames Barbour."

Caesar's Palace sports book in Vegas just posted the opening odds on who the sock account Keepin' Ya Honest belongs to."

 

To be fair, you created your sock first so I'll unmask after you do. 

[Kad]

Posted: 11/1/17 at 10:52am

Man, that thread had some good stuff in it.

[UncleCharlie]

Posted: 11/1/17 at 11:32am

Keepin' Ya Honest! said: "UncleCharlie said: "haterobics said: "Keepin' Ya Honest!! said: "Keepin ya honest!"

More like keeping it off-topic, since this has nothing to do withJames Barbour."

Caesar's Palace sports book in Vegas just posted the opening odds on who the sock account Keepin' Ya Honest belongs to."



To be fair, you created your sock first so I'll unmask after you do."

I've been here a year and a half. It's the only account I have. But I understand you trying to play the "you too" game when you are a "brand new poster" and go straight to a long buried 6+ year old thread. It's so obvious, "but you did it too" is probably your only viable defensive strategy.

Updated On: 11/1/17 at 11:32 AM