Anthony Rapp: Kevin Spacey Made A Sexual Advance Toward Me When I Was 14- Page 5

[Soaring29]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 12:26am

Spacey should have just not commented- I wouldn't be surprised if he, fearing a Weinstein like scandal, insisted on commenting despite his attorneys advising him not to. Him only  apologizing would leave people to think he was acknowledging that his sex life consisted of/consists of relationships with minors- Him  only coming out as being primarily gay now  would look like he was interested in that back then or that he considers relationships with minors a legitimate part of identifying as a homosexual. Instead he  chooses both and it still looks bad, although arguably better then the other two scenarios.  The story is still new, but so far, no other victims seem to be coming forward.  From a legal standpoint, it would have been better for him if he had declined to comment. Is it possible this was just a one time thing or did more incidents  occur before he was famous and not in the last 22 years or so? 

I don't know what will happen if more victims don't come forward- California has some rather complicated laws involving seeking legal penalties for child abuse, but I'm not sure New York does. Since it's been thirty years, I'd assume Rapp cannot sue Spacey in court. I'd have to look more into it though. 

[Soaring29]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 12:29am

poisonivy2 said: "I am so disgusted that Kevin Spacey chooses THIS TIME to come out of the closet. Whether he's aware of it or not he's using his sexuality as an excuse for something inexcusable (sexual assault). Being gay is not an excuse for sexual assault of a 14 year old boy. Neither is being drunk. He's playing into terrible stereotypes that will only increase homophobia. Shame on Kevin Spacey."

I see his coming out as a way of trying to stifle any thoughts that he is attracted to minors, not an excuse for his actions. It was still a pretty stupid  thing to say as well as irresponsible. 

 

[Margo319]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 12:38am

"He pinned a 14 year old boy down on a bed hoping to get sex out of him"

You don't know that. No one does.  Sorry. And, again, that IS NOT RAPE. LOOK IT UP IN THE CRIMINAL PROCEDURAL LAW BOOK. 

[Soaring29]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 12:47am

mc1227 said: "I'm confused by Stacey's statement. He says he doesn't remember the incident but then says his behavior was due to being drunk. So is he saying it happened because he was drunk or he doesn't know if it happened but feels bad if it did? What PR double talk nonsense! I also feel he compounded his nonsense by using it to come out as gay. I have always heard the rumors and it never mattered to me either way if he was gay or not. It has no impact on my opinion of his acting ability which I feel is superb. But approaching a minor for sex is a crime and it doesn't matter what your sexual orientation is.

im sure Anthony Rapp has carried this around for a long time and is using the recent revelations by actresses who have been sexually harassed as a source of empowerment. I feel bad for him and hope he can put this unpleasant incident behind him.

That being said, maybe the parents of young actors need to keep a closer watch on their minors as it's also disturbing to me that a 14 year old would be unchaperoned at a Broadway stars apartment party. That situation can never lead to anything good, whether it be drugs, alcohol or sexual activity. Certainly no place you'd want your child to be in without supervision. That certainly is not Rapps fault and Spacey should be held accountable for his despicable behavior. Broadway, like Hollywood, has plenty of dirty little secrets and I think this one is just the start of other revaltions."

I agree- Children's parents do need to be held accountable to some point. Letting their children go to adult parties alone without a chaperone is downright irresponsible. There is a great film that one should watch called An Open Secret about sex abuse of minors in Hollywood and it shows alarming decisions by the parents that to me the film glosses over. In one instance, the abuser was so much a part of his family that it's understandable why the parents trusted him even in the beginning since the boy's cousin was a client of the abuser's before he started working for the boy. But certain things such as having sleepovers with his minor clients(a HUGE red flag IMO) and  even all of his clients going trick or treating with him are definitely odd and suspicious things that parents needed to be mindful of. And also the film documents certain situations of the actors living with older men, which should NEVER EVER be allowed by parents. DO NOT leave your child  to live with a much older adult figure like an agent/manager/director/actor,  no matter what. Parents need to be be more aware of these things and like the film says, be on the watch for signs of grooming by child abusers much more then signs of stranger danger since the former is much more likely in the business and in life itself. 

[SmoothLover]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 12:55am

I think Spacey should have left the drunken behavior part out of his statement. It makes it seem like he is not telling the truth about not remembering.

[Margo319]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 1:20am

I read it as "If I were not trashed I would not have done that".  People do things they would not normally do when they are drunk or high. 

But, the behavior was appalling, in any state of mind, ever.  

[vanbrig]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 1:45am

I assumed Spacey referred to being drunk because Rapp described him as appearing drunk in his description of the incident. Saying he was drunk doesn't necessarily conflict with his statement that he doesn't remember it. Again, not at all an excuse for his behavior.

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 2:31am

You can step right on outta here with that BS. There's no safe space for victim blamers, especially not here and I'm sure that most posters here would agree with me. No one should ever feel ashamed or judged for being a victim.

Updated On: 10/31/17 at 02:31 AM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 3:13am

A page or two back, Soaring29 correctly posted that the few who have written that the alleged assault wasn't pedophilia aren't saying it was legal and morally correct. They are pointing out that men desiring sex with adolescent males can be distinguished on clinical grounds. The word they want is "ephebophilia".
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ephebophilia


The Wiki article says ephebophiles desire males aged 15 to 19, which doesn't correspond to the laws of any state I know. I usually see the word defined as desiring males who are between puberty and adulthood.

And I would add this quibble: Rapp points out that he looked much younger than 14, which seems true going by the photo of him on stage at the time. So who knows what was going through Spacey's drunken mind? Allegedly.

Updated On: 10/31/17 at 03:13 AM

[Seperite]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 3:35am

I love how terms like "victim-blaming," "slut-shaming," "whitesplaining," "mansplaining," and other such constructive, empowering words/phrases are used to foster healthy debate and respectful dialogue. The logic behind them is that if you have an opinion -- that's fantastic...but only to the extent it agrees with mine. If it doesn't, you're nothing more than a [insert term here], and thus, not eligible to participate.

So nauseating.

There is a *HELLUVA* difference between what Spacey is accused of, and what others like Weinstein, Michael Jackson, Bill Cosby, Sandusky, and a host of others have been accused of. All Rapp has alleged is that in a drunken stupor, Spacey picked him up, set him down, and fell on top of him. That's it. No groping, no kissing, no drugging, no fondling, no molesting, no raping. Just a drunken fool picking someone up, setting them down, and collapsing.

Might Spacey have had some nefarious intent? Sure, it's possible. But it's also possible that he just...fell. None of us were there, and none of us know. The one person who was there has not articulated any actual *sexual* contact. And, importantly, in the 30+ years since this incident allegedly occurred, there have been no other accusations of sexual misconduct (that we know of, anyway) despite Spacey's having been surrounded by no shortage of young, ambitious actors who have looked up to him for decades. When trying to discern a person's motive for a given action, consideration of character, and how that person has acted in comparable situations, is fair game.

And holy hell, within a day of this ****e hitting the fan, Spacey's series has been canceled, the award he was supposed to be given has been rescinded, his reputation is in tatters, he has been lambasted all over social media, his castmates had to be assured that they were "supported" and in a "safespace" and he's surpassed Trump as everyone's favorite new Bad Guy of the News Cycle. This is utter, utter madness.

I'd like to believe that Anthony Rapp feels guilty about what his words have wrought. No matter how much anguish he may have been carrying over these past 30 years, he has to know that is indignation is based solely on a 14-year old's perception of a scary moment from a very long time ago. The mind plays tricks on memories a lot sooner than 30 years have passed. And even if the event had occurred yesterday -- how many of us who have had drunk people trip or fall over us at parties can really say that we knew what the person's "motivation" was when they made contact? Rapp's little quip has utterly destroyed Spacey's life, career, and legacy; unless Rapp is absolutely, positively, 100% sure that Spacey tried to abuse him (and I doubt he can be) I'd like to believe that Rapp is feeilng some pinch of conscience for what he's done. 

The blame goes first and foremost to Rapp's idiot parents. Who in the hell leaves their 14 year old to party with adults?

All of us -- every single one of us -- has done things about which we are ashamed. Things we wouldn't do again, things we didn't give enough thought to. Perhaps not every one of us has gotten drunk and fallen on a child. But if there was someone  scrutinizing, magnifying, every moment of your life, and selecting for publication the most embarrassing moment for all the world to see, I'm sure every single one of us would be in a position where we would risk loss of family, jobs, reputations, etc. What's happening to Spacey now is a damn shame. No one should gloat in his misery. 

[SweetLips]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 3:42am

Hello again--been think about this so re-read Mr Rapps version of events and the whole things reads mighty strange to me.

I am only responding to this one event.

At 14 Mr Rapp has been surrounded by theatre 'types' for a few years and should have been well aware of gay men and possibly his own sexuality by then or at least experimenting.

He willingly went to this party on his own[at 14!] was bored because obviously no one was interested in him to talk to, or otherwise, so instead of going home then, he went into the bedroom ! to watch TV ! Come on !

Spacey comes in drunk,[was he surprised to find this kid in his bedroom?] we don't know how drunk but enough to act like an idiot and start fawning over his guest who now realises that he shouldn't be there.

Advances from a drunk towards anyone is abhorrent let alone a 14yo and must have scared[not scarred]the sh>t out of him so then, and only then, did he get out of there.

Mr Rapp should not have been there and Mr Spacey should not have done what he did.

Just how I interpreted the report.

[GeorgeandDot]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 4:03am

Seperite, your post is just a load of crap. Victim blaming is pretty black and white. You either choose to support someone through a traumatic incident or you can make the experience even worse for them. The only thing making me nauseous are people like you.

[FrankieSay]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 4:33am

Yah. It'd be exactly like saying that it was totally Joshua Safran's fault that his significant other Anthony Rapp punched him in the face in public. He hasn't even worked since. Or has he.

Or like totally ignoring that one girl from those cool shows who James Barbour went to Riker's over. You know who I mean, right? He hasn't even worked since. Or has he.

It'd be terrible to do that.

[Seperite]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 5:00am

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, GeorgeandDot, you're of the opinion that Rapp should be unequivocally supported, and that it's entirely appropriate for Spacey's career, reputation, and life to be destroyed, because Rapp alleged that Spacey picked him up and fell on him more than 30 years ago? Are you serious?

Please do not denigrate me by characterizing my opinion as "blaming the victim." Michael Jackson, Jerry Sandusky, Bill Cosby...these people and others of their ilk should burn in hell. But Kevin Spacey? To this point, all we know is that in one isolated incident, 30+ years ago, he got drunk, picked up a kid, and fell on him. And for that, his life will be utterly destroyed.

Does that not make you nauseous?

[blaxx]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 5:12am

FrankieSay said: "Yah. It'd be exactly like saying that it was totally Joshua Safran's fault that his significant other Anthony Rapp punched him in the face in public.

 

He has done vicious things, the public violence is nothing compared to other facts about him.

Oh no wait, what he went through for those 5 minutes when he was 14 automatically absolves him for all the things he has done since.

[FrankieSay]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 5:23am

To be fair, we do not know if Anthony Rapp's participation in the Landmark Forum cult led to his achieving his "true potential" and whether or not that brought about his making amends for beating his significant other. I hope Star Treck Discovery doesn't get cancelled because of his behavior in his private life a long time ago.

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 6:25am

blaxx said: "FrankieSay said: "Yah. It'd be exactly like saying that it was totally Joshua Safran's fault that his significant other Anthony Rapp punched him in the face in public.



He has done vicious things, the public violence is nothing compared to other facts about him.

Oh no wait, what he went through for those 5 minutes when he was 14 automatically absolves him for all the things he has done since."

This is one reason a lot of people don’t come forward when they’re raped or sexually assaulted: every single thing they have ever done in their life is suddenly counted and held against them. Are you so rigid in your thinking that you cannot understand that sometimes people who have been victims may also do something ****ty?

[raddersons]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 8:13am

I’m gonna be that guy and put a content warning on my post for some sexual assault stuff...

BroadwayRox3588 said: "I am 23, and I have never had even the slightest urge to sexually assault someone. So the "he was only 26" excuse is weak sauce."

This is not how sexual assault works 99% of the time. You think someone goes to a party thinking “I’m going to sexually assault someone tonight?” Unless its a date-rape situation (and Spacey’s was not), no. Rapists are people around you—they may be great people otherwise but get aggressive sexually and not take no for an answer, becuase when it comes to sex only listen with their d*ck and not with their ears. As much as people think “no means no”, there are so many gray areas to this — is a drunk yes a no? Do you want to impress your friends so you say yes, but not want to go through with it??

If Rapp was say, 20, I think this whole situation would be seen in a different light. A 26 year old, struggling with his sexuality, probably inexperienced with men, saw the way someone was talking to him as flirting, and maybe got overzealous at one of his first experiences. I’m not saying it’s acceptable, but the closet is a dark place and makes people do stupid things. Society demonizing homosexuality just reinforces this behavior.

Rapp being 14 makes this pretty inexcusable to me. Even if Rapp was 20 it would still be gross. Coming out of the closet to mask the actions is also pretty bizarre, but maybe it was a way of trying to get people to understand where he was in his life. In a way I understand how being in the closet can warp a situation like that.

This is why we need gay pride!!! Fk the closet.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 8:33am

This thread reeks of datalounge.

[BuddyStarr]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 8:34am

Dave28282 said: "WestCoastActor/Director said: ...

Posting  unsubstantiated rumors is dangerous and libelous.  I won't quote what you said but attacking the victim with supposedly secondhand information is wrong. 

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 8:42am

blaxx said: "FrankieSay said: "Yah. It'd be exactly like saying that it was totally Joshua Safran's fault that his significant other Anthony Rapp punched him in the face in public.



He has done vicious things, the public violence is nothing compared to other facts about him.

Oh no wait, what he went through for those 5 minutes when he was 14 automatically absolves him for all the things he has done since."

Idk whether you're aware of it but you're getting very close to the "but she was wearing short skirts" type of victim-blaming here. Whatever Rapp might or might not have done (and why don't you say exactly what he's done that's so horrible) doesn't make it okay for Spacey to have done what he did. 

[Steve C.]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 8:46am

One thing I can say is Karma will always come around and come back, and give back to you what you give. Working on HOC, KS treated everyone "badly", his attitude was not professional, there was always some "activity" in his trailer, always on the DL. Unfortunately, his "choices" have just put a lot of people out of work.

Stop blaming and shaming the victim here; if Rapp was 18 or older, he would still be a victim, but being 14, this was/is a crime. Spacey's reply and supposed apology reek of privilege and denial.

Updated On: 10/31/17 at 08:46 AM

[smidge]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 8:55am

If some people want to start a “Anthony Rapp is a ****ty person “ thread then have it. This thread is about Rapp recounting an encounter with Kevin Spacey when Rapp was a 14 year old boy. One poster claims all we know is Spacey fell on Rapp. I don’t know how we know that because that’s not what Rapp claims in the article. If Rapp’s recollection is accurate, Spacey behaved in a manner no adult should with a 14 year old boy. And his subsequent statement about the matter made him even creepier and self serving.

[Soaring29]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 10:08am

Personally, I believe Rapp's story here, but I'd caution those who say we should automatically believe the victim- nobody knows if the person is a victim or not until being able to weigh all the facts. That's why we have juries/judges. Although I understand it is necessary in order to avoid kangaroo courts, I don't necessarily believe in the "innocent until proven guilty" principle, nor do I believe in "guilty until proven innocent" - it should be a matter of fact for a person to be able make up their own mind after hearing the evidence,  to not have any pre-conceived notion  at all,  and not let their emotions and biases overwhelm them. Assuming anything is contrary to the interests of justice. There are indeed false reports of sex crimes out there and  falsely accused people whose lives are drastically affected by them- no one should assume anything until they are able to weigh both sides. Do not automatically assume anything until you know all the facts. And this goes for automatically believing the accused as well. As hard as it is, one has to put aside their personal feelings and be objective. 

[vanbrig]

Posted: 10/31/17 at 10:10am

GeorgeandDot said: "You can step right on outta here with that BS. There's no safe space for victim blamers, especially not here and I'm sure that most posters here would agree with me. No one should ever feel ashamed or judged for being a victim."

Who are you referring to? If you're replying to me (since I posted right above you), I wasn't victim blaming. I was saying that it made sense Spacey called himself drunk, because Rapp specifically SAID he was drunk. In other words, pointing out to the people who said there was no way Spacey would know he was drunk if he didn't remember the incident, that it is in fact possible. That doesn't mean any of it is excusable or in any way the victim's fault.