Are Playbills environmentally friendly?- Page 2

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 8/16/19 at 11:15pm

The real tree-killer with playbills is all the ads. The actual show-specific content in a playbill is only about 10 pages.

Are tickets environmentally friendly? Every other live event I attend other than theatre (in addition to planes, trains, prepaid parking) all have digital versions that scan off phones. What uses more paper- the people who print at home and get an 8X11 page full of ads when all they need is a 1X2" barcode, or real tickets with the thicker pulp in triplicate because of the receipts?

ETA: NAMO!

Updated On: 8/17/19 at 11:15 PM

[VintageSnarker]

Posted: 8/17/19 at 4:33am

orangeskittles said: "The real tree-killer with playbills is all the ads. The actual show-specific content in a playbill isonly about 10 pages.

This. I'm not hating on them wanting to sell ad space to make money or to publish articles and interviews that I'm sure someone puts a lot of care into. But that's what is really bulking up a basic program. Everything is digital is a nonsense argument. Many people want the souvenir and having digital Playbills just encourages more phone use in the theater. Plus, the internet is not as "forever" as we might think. 

[WayTooBroadway]

Posted: 8/17/19 at 8:53am

Are CVS receipts environmentally friendly?

[joevitus]

Posted: 8/17/19 at 2:13pm

This thread is amusing me in a partly touching partly snidely sarcastic way.

I think it's great that people are caring about the environment and considering whatever steps we can take to save the planet. But the damage done by Playbills in comparison to...well, most everything we encounter in our daily lives, makes it a very trivial question. Of all the issue on our planet, items made of paper, which can are are recycled if you recycle them (and that nonsense of "it doesn't bring back the trees" I read above--it significantly slows down the destruction of trees because companies can use the recycled paper instead of going for fresh sources), is the least of our worries. 

God knows what all the technology that powers a modern Broadway show is costing the planet through all the use of electricity (which does lead to pollution and a depletion of resources via the power plants providing all this electricity). The machines themselves powered by that electricity are probably doing irreparable harm and far more toxic to the environment when thrown away than any Playbill. And that's not even considering all the non-theater ways this earth is polluted every day. The person above comparing the damage of Playbill to a cel phone was absolutely on target. There is no comparison. And phones are now replaced--what? every three or four years? Five or seven at the most? This is appallingly reckless. Getting rid of Playbills would be such a tiny, insignificant gesture that it would ultimately come under the old conservative reprimand of "virtue signaling," no matter how earnest in effort the people participating in the change were. 

It really is nice that people care, and I'm not wanting to snark all over that sentiment, but this is not an effective use of their concern. 

[djoko84]

Posted: 8/17/19 at 6:55pm

The better question is who gives a crap?

[ukpuppetboy]

Posted: 8/17/19 at 7:04pm

joevitus said: “...this is not an effective use of their concern”

I can’t help think this is an entirely BS argument and this kind of thinking totally destructive. Every person and every positive action matters. Almost every significant change is made through an ongoing series of little steps; and it’s ridiculous to dismiss these just because there are larger issues that also need to be tackled. LEDs have brought major improvements in the (agreed much more significant) environmental impact of stage lighting and as technology improves so will this. But when most Playbills are disposed of almost immediately and only one or two pages are of (temporary) interest to most theatre goers then you could make a very significant impact by replacing them with a single sheet (as at the National Theatre). It’s not JUST paper and ink, but carbon emissions in production/delivery/disposal too. Even recycling has a carbon footprint attached and is less advantagous than not printing in unnecessary volumes to begin with.

Nobody is saying get rid of them altogether. But as with the charge to plastic carrier bags people are much more mindful if they pay for the item. West End theatres are not littered with hundreds of them at the end of the show..

Updated On: 8/17/19 at 07:04 PM

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 8/17/19 at 7:05pm

Perhaps shows should just put up QR codes around the theatre that direct people’s phones to the shows page on the playbill website. Also, playbill should start posting understudy notices on their website.

[ukpuppetboy]

Posted: 8/17/19 at 7:06pm

djoko84 said: "The better question is who gives a crap?"

Well hopefully your kids. And their kids. And any responsible adult in the room

[BIG BALONEY]

Posted: 8/17/19 at 7:15pm

Stop using toilet paper too.

[LxGstv]

Posted: 8/17/19 at 7:26pm

BIG BALONEY said: " Stop using toilet paper too."

From an environmental standpoint, bidets can reduce the need for toilet paper. Considering that an average person uses only 1⁄8 US gal (0.47 l) of water for cleansing once using a bidet, much less water is used than for making toilet paper. An article in Scientific American concluded that using a bidet is "much less stressful on the environment than using paper". Scientific Americanhas reported that if the US switched to using bidets, 15 million trees could be saved every year.

source: Wikipedia.

[UncleCharlie]

Posted: 8/17/19 at 8:12pm

First, please stop comparing London theater programs to U.S. playbills. The London programs are elaborate, full color affairs printed on good paper stock. They're worth paying for and fall somewhere between a playbill and a Broadway show's souvenir program for which people gladly pay $20-30 or more.

Second, you could make this argument with almost anything. How many on this board take Ubers by themselves to the airport instead of taking public transportation? (If you claim you've got too much luggage for that to work... bring less stuff). How many take taxis to a destination within 20-25 blocks. You can't walk that? How many fly cross country to see a single favorite show or favorite performer in concert? You'll live without seeing the show or the performer if it saves the environment, right? Do you recycle and compost all your waste? And what about the jobs lost if there were no longer any playbills, the lumberjacks, the paper mill jobs, the truckers, the loading dock workers, the printers, the ink manufacturers, the typesetters (I know it's done by computer). Where do they go for work? Do our public welfare roles swell as a result of this radical idea?

And most of all, if you care about and want to save the environment, elect a president who is committed to saving it instead of destroying it so corporations and their rich executives and shareholders will keep that donation train flowing into his campaign coffers. The relaxation and outright elimination of environmental regulations and standards in the last 2 1/2 years now allow corporations to dump more crap into rivers and streams and more waste into the air in one week than a year's worth of playbills create (maybe a decade's worth but I went conservative). The Environmental Protection Agency is now run by a former coal industry lobbyist for God's sake.

Of course I've taken some of these arguments to their illogical extreme but the point is, yes, we all need to worry about the environment because we've got serious problems, yes, we all need to examine everything we do and see where we can help, no, picking one thing at random and demonizing it will not solve the problem and is not as effective as an organized plan as to how people in general can go green in their lives. Some will argue, "Hey, it's a starting point" but it's a starting point in the same way giving a pack of cough drops to someone coughing up their lungs everyday cause they've got stomach cancer is a starting point in treating their illness.

Updated On: 8/17/19 at 08:12 PM

[djoko84]

Posted: 8/17/19 at 11:44pm

LxGstv said: "BIG BALONEY said: " Stop using toilet paper too."

From an environmental standpoint, bidets can reduce the need for toilet paper. Considering that an average person uses only 1⁄8USgal (0.47l) of water for cleansing once using a bidet, much less water is used than for making toilet paper. An article inScientific Americanconcluded that using a bidet is "much less stressful on the environment than using paper".Scientific Americanhas reported that if the US switched to using bidets, 15 million trees could be saved every year.

source: Wikipedia."
 

Yes, let's start using bidets in the theatre bathrooms. Just have guys' dirty asses hanging out when you walk in. I'm sure everyone would love that.

Updated On: 8/17/19 at 11:44 PM

[Impossible2]

Posted: 8/17/19 at 11:53pm

djoko84 said: "LxGstv said: "BIG BALONEY said: " Stop using toilet paper too."

From an environmental standpoint, bidets can reduce the need for toilet paper. Considering that an average person uses only 1⁄8USgal (0.47l) of water for cleansing once using a bidet, much less water is used than for making toilet paper. An article inScientific Americanconcluded that using a bidet is "much less stressful on the environment than using paper".Scientific Americanhas reported that if the US switched to using bidets, 15 million trees could be saved every year.

source: Wikipedia."


Yes, let's start using bidets in the theatre bathrooms. Just have guys' dirty asses hanging out when you walk in. I'm sure everyone would love that."

I’d like it once they’re cleaned x

[joevitus]

Posted: 8/18/19 at 1:42am

ukpuppetboy said: "joevitus said: “...this is not an effective use of their concern”

I can’t help think this is an entirely BS argument and this kind of thinking totally destructive. Every person and every positive actionmatters. Almost every significant change ismade through an ongoing series of little steps; and it’s ridiculous to dismiss these just because there are larger issues that also need to be tackled. LEDs havebrought major improvements in the (agreed much more significant) environmental impact of stage lighting and as technology improves sowill this. But when most Playbills are disposed of almost immediately and only one ortwo pages are of (temporary) interest to mosttheatre goers then you could make a very significant impact by replacing them with a single sheet (as at the National Theatre). It’s not JUST paper and ink, but carbon emissions in production/delivery/disposal too. Even recycling has a carbon footprint attached and is less advantagousthan not printing in unnecessary volumes to begin with.

Nobody is saying get rid of them altogether. But as with the charge to plastic carrier bags people are much more mindful if they pay for the item. West End theatres are not littered with hundreds of them at the end of the show.."

If you can't help but be wrong, you can't help it. Fact is, it will make utterly no difference to our planet's well being as long as far more serious acts of pollution/waste occur. I can't help but tell you that.

[ukpuppetboy]

Posted: 8/18/19 at 4:14am

joevitus said: "If you can't help but be wrong, you can't help it. Fact is, it will make utterly no difference to our planet's well being as long as far more serious acts of pollution/waste occur. I can't help but tell you that."

Obviously the planet’s future well being is reliant on addressing as many issues of pollution and waste as possible; from government and business policy down to the everyday decisions of families and individuals. The point raised here was SPECIFICALLY about Playbills, and I very much doubt the OP was arguing that the worlds’ ecological crisis was going to be solved by this alone. Given that over 13 million people attend a Broadway show annually it’s facetious at best to say that changes would make no difference.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 8/18/19 at 1:16pm

This thread is a perfect example of why the earth has limited time left. Nothing will ever be done due to bickering. The Playbill question illustrates the need for large scale sweeping changes to reduce and/or eliminate waste. Some people see it as futile and others realize the bigger picture and are aware it needs to happen.

I feel the same way about all the plastic crap that shows sell. It’s all garbage and no one needs it, especially the Hoarders who buy it. However it’s all about money so it keeps being sold.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 8/18/19 at 2:18pm

Sitting here with a stack of programs from the West End I got at shows this past week, I wouldn’t mind if broadway houses started doing that. They cost around £5 each there which would be about $6 or so here and are very nice collectibles. When I first started going over there, I’d buy a program for every show but now I’m much more selective. The only thing about them that I wish was different is that they’re all different sizes so it’s hard to organize them and keep them on a shelf together.

[joevitus]

Posted: 8/18/19 at 2:22pm

Bettyboy72 said: "This thread is a perfect example of why the earth has limited time left. Nothing will ever be done due to bickering. The Playbill question illustrates the need for large scale sweeping changes to reduce and/or eliminate waste. Some people see it as futile and others realize the bigger picture and are aware it needs to happen.

I feel the same way about all the plastic crap that shows sell. It’s all garbage and no one needs it, especially the Hoarders who buy it. However it’s all about money so it keeps being sold.

There's no bigger picture. Getting rid of Playbills wouldn't improve the earth and wouldn't inspire greater efforts to improve the earth. And the conversation doesn't illustrate why anything will ever get done because 1) the conversation just started so gauging it's repercussions is melodramatic, and 2) none of us is in a position to either make Playbills disappear or assure their continuance, so there are no ramifications to our talk.

Updated On: 8/18/19 at 02:22 PM

[djoko84]

Posted: 8/18/19 at 3:13pm

How about the people who care so much about playbills being environmentally friendly, turn off their computers, stop using electricity, and stop posting on here to save energy in their houses. That might work.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 8/18/19 at 3:36pm

joevitus said: "Bettyboy72 said: "This thread is a perfect example of why the earth has limited time left. Nothing will ever be done due to bickering. The Playbill question illustrates the need for large scale sweeping changes to reduce and/or eliminate waste. Some people see it as futile and others realize the bigger picture and are aware it needs to happen.

I feel the same way about all the plastic crap that shows sell. It’s all garbage and no one needs it, especially the Hoarders who buy it. However it’s all about money so it keeps being sold.

There's no bigger picture. Getting rid of Playbills wouldn't improve the earth and wouldn't inspire greater efforts to improve the earth. And the conversation doesn't illustrate why anything will ever get done because 1) the conversation just started so gauging it's repercussions is melodramatic, and 2) none of us is in a position to either make Playbills disappear or assure their continuance, so there are no ramifications to our talk."

I find you very short-sighted. The bigger picture is if overall we stopped producing unnecessary things (Playbills only being one teeny part of the picture) things can improve. And the differing opinions in this thread very clearly demonstrate the divide that keeps things static. 

[ukpuppetboy]

Posted: 8/18/19 at 4:09pm

djoko84 said: "How about the people who care so much about playbills being environmentally friendly, turn off their computers, stop using electricity, and stop posting on here to save energy in their houses. That might work."

Or maybe just those with nothing useful to contribute.

[joevitus]

Posted: 8/18/19 at 10:17pm

Bettyboy72 said: "joevitus said: "Bettyboy72 said: "This thread is a perfect example of why the earth has limited time left. Nothing will ever be done due to bickering. The Playbill question illustrates the need for large scale sweeping changes to reduce and/or eliminate waste. Some people see it as futile and others realize the bigger picture and are aware it needs to happen.

I feel the same way about all the plastic crap that shows sell. It’s all garbage and no one needs it, especially the Hoarders who buy it. However it’s all about money so it keeps being sold.

There's no bigger picture. Getting rid of Playbills wouldn't improve the earth and wouldn't inspire greater efforts to improve the earth. And the conversation doesn't illustrate why anything will ever get done because 1) the conversation just started so gauging it's repercussions is melodramatic, and 2) none of us is in a position to either make Playbills disappear or assure their continuance, so there are no ramifications to our talk."

I find you very short-sighted. The bigger picture is if overall we stopped producing unnecessary things (Playbills only being one teeny part of the picture) things can improve. And the differing opinions in this thread very clearly demonstrate the divide that keeps things static."

If that's what you find, you should not work as a detective. It will literally have no impact in the larger scheme of things. *shrug*

[Fosse76]

Posted: 8/19/19 at 2:25pm

joevitus said: "But the damage done by Playbills in comparison to...well, most everything we encounter in our daily lives, makes it a very trivial question."

The week ending 08/11/2019 likely saw 270,326 Playbills distributed on Broadway alone. That doesn't include any other single-performance distribution of Playbills or other programs at other events throughout the city. It also doesn't include Playbills/programs distributed throughout the United States. And it certainly doesn't include the ACTUAL number of Playbills printed for the week, which exceeds that amount. It is not trivial by any means.

Even if you look at other marketing products distributed, such as flyers for those same shows, or those bulky tourist guides at airports and hotels, the waste isn't comparable. Those materials don't have even close to the same distribution as Playbills, and don't use up as much paper.

"Of all the issue on our planet, items made of paper, which can are are recycled if you recycle them (and that nonsense of "it doesn't bring back the trees" I read above--it significantly slows down the destruction of trees because companies can use the recycled paper instead of going for fresh sources), is the least of our worries."

Recycling has its own issues. Ignoring the chemical and air pollution that can result from the process of recycling paper, not all Playbills can be recycled. Since most theater patrons are too stupid to put recyclable items in the correct bins therefore mixing with actual garbage, recyclable goods are minimal. 

God knows what all the technology that powers a modern Broadway show is costing the planet through all the use of electricity (which does lead to pollution and a depletion of resources via the power plants providing all this electricity). The machinesthemselves powered by that electricityare probably doing irreparable harm and far more toxic to the environment when thrown away than any Playbill.

Apples and oranges. I'm using the term "need" liberally here. The mechanical and technological needs of a show are necessary for the desired presentation. The wastefulness is limited in scope, in comparison to Playbills. There is absolutely no need for a Playbill. All of the needed information is available online. Understudies are identified on the cast board in the lobby. Paybills/programs are really nothing more than a marketing tool. It is probably the easiest thing to eliminate.

"And that's not even considering all the non-theater ways this earth is polluted every day. The person above comparing the damage of Playbill to a cel phone was absolutely on target. There is no comparison. And phones are now replaced--what? every three or four years? Five or seven at the most? This is appallingly reckless.Getting rid of Playbills would be such a tiny, insignificant gesture that it would ultimately come under the old conservative reprimand of "virtue signaling," no matter how earnest in effort the people participating in the change were."

270,326 per week is not insignificant no matter what you think.

"It really is nice that people care, and I'm not wanting to snark all over that sentiment, but this is not an effective use of theirconcern."

Who are you to decide that. You simply want a free souvenir from the show. Most people never look at the Playbill again. Playbill is nothing more than a marketing tool for the advertisers in each issue. I wouldn't be surprised of most of those arguing to keep it don't meet the demographic target of those advertisers in the first place. There simply is no good reason for Playbills to continue to be distributed this way. They should start charging, that would drastically reduce the number that need to be printed.

[Pashacar]

Posted: 8/19/19 at 2:46pm

@Fosse76, thanks for this wonderful post, bringing some sense to this messy discussion.

Especially grateful for this: "Since most theater patrons are too stupid to put recyclable items in the correct bins therefore mixing with actual garbage, recyclable goods are minimal."

[joevitus]

Posted: 8/19/19 at 4:33pm

Fosse76 said: "joevitus said: "But the damage done by Playbills in comparison to...well, most everything we encounter in our daily lives, makes it a very trivial question."

The week ending 08/11/2019 likely saw 270,326 Playbills distributed on Broadwayalone. That doesn't include any other single-performance distribution of Playbills or other programs at other events throughout the city. It also doesn't include Playbills/programs distributed throughout the United States. And it certainlydoesn't include the ACTUAL number of Playbills printed for the week, which exceeds that amount. It is not trivial by any means.

Actually, those numbers are pretty trivial, and are swallowed up by the mass amount of printed material we create and don't recycle. If you were to get rid of them and encourage people to read the info online, you'd probably end up creating more pollution by the excessive use of energy by internet users. You'd be moving the problem laterally, but not clearing it up. The paper not used to print Playbills anymore would be used for other ephemeral items instead.

It's just a useless idea. Recycle your Playbills is a not bad idea. Getting rid of them will solve nothing. Literally nothing.