Biggest disappointments from established teams?- Page 2

[girlcop]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 11:08pm

KJisgroovy said: "I realize its already been said but I feel like we can't mention War Paint enough. On paper everything looked extraordinary. From creatives, to director, to casting and concept. What we ended up with was just awfully inert. Wrong choices made at every turn. Changes made from Chicago to Broadway made things worse."

Glad I saw it in Chicago!

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 11:25pm

WAR PAINT is automatically a better show if it's about two fictional fixtures of the women's cosmetic world, or if it takes a more heavily-fictionalized look at their lives. It needed a greater and more personal conflict that wasn't able to be found in the two pieces of source material that inspired it.

It's also a show about women that was written, directed, lead-produced, and choreographed by men. Sure other shows have been successful with a homogenous creative team, but had it opened in 2024 there's no question that at least two of its lead creative team members would be women. And that could have been a much-needed perspective.

Same with TOOTSIE, another disappointment that belongs on this list and was missing a certain perspective.

Updated On: 7/14/24 at 11:25 PM

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 11:38pm

I’d be curious what people would answer for the reverse of this question. Biggest triumphs from creatives that didn’t give you much hope prior to seeing the show.

 

[Broadway Flash]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 11:44pm

Christine Ebersole ran away with the whole show.  She had the big opening number, the big 11 o’clock number, the failing marriage, the business drama, there was so much more going on with her, and the writers clearly favored her and knew how to write for her voice.  Her singing is much better suited for Scott Frankel’s music.  Patti was her maid.  The show probably would have been better if they just focused on Elizabeth Arden

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 7/14/24 at 11:59pm

Call_me_jorge said: "I’d be curious what people would answer for the reverse of this question. Biggest triumphs from creatives that didn’t give you much hope prior to seeing the show."

I'm choosing to interpret this prompt as a "comeback," rather than an all-new team impressing. Some great comebacks of late (some of which are only select elements of a show) ----

• SHUCKED - I think a lot of us felt Jack O'Brien's time had passed after a string of mediocre to bad shows, Tootsie didn't exactly make us think Robert Horn could successfully craft a new story, and the songwriters had never worked in this medium.
• SCHOOL OF ROCK - a financial and creative comeback from ALW time was in the past, a surprisingly not-stuffy book from someone who seemed totally wrong for the material (Julian Fellowes), and an otherwise-middling director who got GREAT performances out of kid actors (no small feat) and helped make Brightman a star.
• Something is clicking with the general public with GREAT GATSBY that wasn't there for Jason Howland's other works.
• These are about select people, but AFTER MIDNIGHT felt like the moment where Warren Carlyle really came into his own as a choreographer, and his work since then has been much better than what preceded it. Similarly, I was rarely thrilled by Daniel Aukin and Danya Taymor's work prior to seeing STEREOPHONIC and OUTSIDERS. Now they're two of the top people in their field, and they can work on a large scale.

Updated On: 7/15/24 at 11:59 PM

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 12:32am

"BANDSTAND is the polar opposite of what I'm talking about. It was the Broadway debut of its writing team, it had no notable individuals in its cast, and though Blankenbuehler was riding on the success of HAMILTON his one previous Broadway directorial effort was disappointing."

Ok. BTW - Laura Osnes got Tony nominations in 2012 & 2013 (Bonnie & Clyde and Cinderella) but I guess that is not notable. Corey Cott replaced Jeremy Jordan in "Newsies" which was big time hit, think that made him notable. Moving on - lol.

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 12:42am

"In what actual universe is anybody involved with this an established team."

Well known lead actors and one of them received two Tony nominations. Choreographer who won Tony award for that little known show called "Hamilton" - lol. Yes, I understand I was straying from the concept of the thread but no need to get so "snarky" about it. Have a nice day.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 8:34am

Zeppie2022 said: ""BANDSTAND is the polar opposite of what I'm talking about. It was the Broadway debut of its writing team, it had no notable individuals in its cast, and though Blankenbuehler was riding on the success of HAMILTON his one previous Broadway directorial effort was disappointing."

Ok. BTW - Laura Osnes got Tony nominations in 2012 & 2013 (Bonnie & Clyde and Cinderella) but I guess that is not notable. Corey Cott replaced Jeremy Jordan in "Newsies" which was big time hit, think that made him notable. Moving on - lol."

This thread is about the creative side of the shows though. Not the actors. It was the writer’s first show. 

[IronMan]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 9:41am

Matlby and Shire's "Big" was... depressing.  My friend left at intermission, while I unwisely stayed only to be confronted with not one, but TWO dream ballets (one on skateboards).  I'd been obsessed with their music for ages, but this score was terrible. 

I left humming the sets. 

[Broadway Flash]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 11:07am

The Last Ship?  Big Fish?

[darquegk]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 12:36pm

Call_me_jorge said: "I’d be curious what people would answer for the reverse of this question. Biggest triumphs from creatives that didn’t give you much hope prior to seeing the show.

"

After years of hype and rumors, Beetlejuice was announced with a score by Eddie Perfect, a relatively minor presence in the music-and-comedy world who had been attached to megaflop King Kong. The show opens out of town to tepid reviews. Perfect, true to his name, becomes a perfectionist and writes and rewrites the show until it is a critical and audience success. The slow burn to cult success takes a while, but the show eventually does so well it comes back from its projected sales in a way no other show had done.

[BroadwayNYC2]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 12:54pm

I wouldnt consider Beetlejuice a critical success either. 

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 12:57pm

Broadway Flash said: "The Last Ship? Big Fish?"

 

No one cared about those enough to be disappointed by them.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 1:19pm

Can we count movies?

Rob Marshall’s Nine.

[Shawk]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 1:50pm

Leap of Faith. What weirdly soulless musical coming from Alan Menken and Glenn Slater.

[The8re phan]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 2:23pm

The Pirate Queen

[Bill Snibson]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 2:35pm

With the exception of The Scotsboro Boys, I would say that much of Kander and Ebb's later work just never delivered in the way we might have expected... Steel Pier. Curtains, The Visit, New York, New York.

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 3:23pm

Surprised nobody's mentioned Smile, which didn't even get a cast album and only really lives on in regional productions, despite being helmed by Howard Ashman and Marvin Hamlisch (and workshopped at Michael Bennett's studio, no less). I recall reading that Hamlisch essentially bailed on the production after the critics bombed it out.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 3:46pm

Charley Kringas Inc said: "Surprised nobody's mentioned Smile, which didn't even get a cast album and only really lives on in regional productions, despite being helmed by Howard Ashman and Marvin Hamlisch (and workshopped at Michael Bennett's studio, no less). I recall reading that Hamlisch essentially bailed on the production after the critics bombed it out."

Yes, SMILE is a good one!

Its failure gave us Ashman's pivot to Disney and the casting of Jodie Benson as Ariel in THE LITTLE MERMAID.

[TotallyEffed]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 3:57pm

Bill Snibson said: "With the exception of The Scotsboro Boys, I would say that much of Kander and Ebb's later workjust never delivered in the way we might have expected...Steel Pier. Curtains, The Visit, New York, New York."

 

I absolutely loved The Visit and saw it many times.

[Bill Snibson]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 5:34pm

I get that. I am one of about 5 people who absolutely loved Steel Pier…Karen Ziemba performing “Running in Place” was everything to me but my point is these shows just didn’t hit the way Cabaret or Chicago or even Kiss of the Spider Woman did. 

[pmensky]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 6:25pm

I saw the original production of Martin Guerre in previews in London in June of 1996, and I don’t think I’ve ever been so excited to see a new show or so disappointed after seeing it. Considering the success of Les Mis and Miss Saigon, Boublil and Schönberg seemed like they could do no wrong, but they certainly did. 

[The Bittersweets]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 6:31pm

I think some of Galt MacDermot’s post-Hair work qualifies! For Two Gentlemen of Verona, he had just won a Grammy a couple of years prior for Hair, and John Guare had House Of Blue Leaves running off-Broadway. While the show ended up winning the Tony for Best Musical, it beat out both Grease and Follies for the award. This was an upset at the time, and now it’s borderline unthinkable, given how much Follies and Grease impacted musical theatre canon. Perhaps Verona only qualifies in hindsight. His other Broadway shows, Via Galactica and The Human Comedy, are more self-explanatory (in terms of not living up to the standards of Hair)…

[darquegk]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 7:00pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "Charley Kringas Inc said: "Surprised nobody's mentioned Smile, which didn't even get a cast album and only really lives on in regional productions, despite being helmed by Howard Ashman and Marvin Hamlisch (and workshopped at Michael Bennett's studio, no less). I recall reading that Hamlisch essentially bailed on the production after the critics bombed it out."

Yes, SMILE is a good one!

Its failure gave us Ashman's pivot to Disney and the casting of Jodie Benson as Ariel in THE LITTLE MERMAID."

If SMILE was a hit...

Howard Ashman probably remains a minor figure, spoken of in the same sentences as Craig Carnelia, or Maltby and Shire. A well-respected cult figure for the rest of his sadly short life.

The Disney Renaissance never happens. The Disney corporation never successfully pivots to musical theatre. Times Square is never cleaned up. 9/11 never happens... okay, that last one is a stretch.

[Broadway Flash]

Posted: 7/15/24 at 9:20pm

I didn’t see it but Scandalous?  I enjoy the cast recording